The Off Switch

[Flamincomet]

I'm having problems with Ghost settling down in the house. Most of the dogs I've owned in the past were family and mostly outside dogs, so I don't have much experience with this.

 

Does anyone know of any good books, websites, or just have some good advice?

 

Autumn

[Guest SweetJordan]

Well I admit I'm a BC novice. Therefore, I'm not the most qualified to help you with this. However, I had to teach Riley how to use an off switch and now she has a beautiful one. I didn't use books, websites or anything like that. But I have to ask how old is Ghost? Ghost looks pretty young from your avi, but of course I don't know how old that pic is.

[Flamincomet]

Well I admit I'm a BC novice. Therefore, I'm not the most qualified to help you with this. However, I had to teach Riley how to use an off switch and now she has a beautiful one. I didn't use books, websites or anything like that. But I have to ask how old is Ghost? Ghost looks pretty young from your avi, but of course I don't know how old that pic is.

 

Ghost is 8 months now, I just put that pic up as my avi cause it's a small reminder of how cute and innocent he USED to look.

Here is a more recent pic:

 

 

I HAVE neglected his training in this respect, but I am trying really hard to correct that now, though it is hard since I've never had to train this behavior before.

 

Autumn

[Bo Peep]

You must have a command for this- I use the "go chill" It doesn't mean an immediate lie down- it isn't threatening, it just means go to your blanket or corner and chill for awhile- no zoomies or playtime. We will do that later. Seems to work for me. Has for over 20 years.

[Flamincomet]

You must have a command for this- I use the "go chill" It doesn't mean an immediate lie down- it isn't threatening, it just means go to your blanket or corner and chill for awhile- no zoomies or playtime. We will do that later. Seems to work for me. Has for over 20 years.

 

I have been trying to implement a voice command "That's Enough" but I'm not having a high success rate. I don't know exactly HOW to teach the actual command.

 

Autumn

[Nik]

I think first and foremost the secret to teaching anything is patience, patience, patience and calmness on your part. With that said I taught my two "That's enough" for their off switch or "Go lay down", depending on what it is that they are doing that I want them to stop. For "that's enough" I would walk up to them whenenver they would do what I wanted them to settle down and say that's enough and touch each one on the nose to direct their attention to me. Then praise...first w/ treats, then a simple pat on the head, then just a "good boy". For "go lay down" I taught them the usual way of teaching that trick and then I would just point to the floor, now they know what the command means. The trick is you HAVE to be consistant w/ your commands and as I said before...Patient.

 

There are times that they are just too wound up to settle right off the bat and when I see that happening I give them the command and then ignore their antics for "just one more time". It doesn't take long for them to calm when this happens.

 

Hang in there and don't give up...it will come.

[Jack & Co.]

This topic comes up quite a bit so I used the Search feature and hunted with the word "settle" and found an older thread with several good suggestions. You'll get the best results from the search engine if you keep selecting "More Options" until you get to the last window.

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...ic=13167&hl

[Root Beer]

One question that comes to mind in response to your question is this - do you want the "off switch" to be "go and lie down and stay there until I say you can get up" or do you want it to be more of a "go be a dog on your own for a while".

 

If it's the first, I suggest teaching the dog to lie quietly in a crate. It seems that would be easier on both you and the dog.

 

If it's the second, why not think of what you want your dog to be doing and foster that behavior.

 

For instance, if he is playing ball constantly, you could remove access to the ball when you want him to be more relaxed. If he is running around the house getting into things, you could keep him on a leash in the room where you are with some "quiet toys" to condition that sort of behavior.

 

Back when Speedy was a puppy, he used to just run around, run around, run around, grab things, run around, pee, run around, etc. I used to put him in a crate so he could settle when I wasn't able to interact with him directly. We moved from the crate to a small gated area. Once he was calmer in there, he got to be loose in the whole room.

 

He was never good at entertaining himself, so it took a while, but he did learn to be settled in the house.

 

Edited to correct Ghost's gender (I had "him" as a "her") and to correct a spelling error.

[BustopherJones]

If you find the "Off" switch on a Border Collie, please let me know; in 3-1/2 years thus far, I have had limited success.

[bcnewe2]

I was thinking about what my Off switch is.

It's "Get" meaning, get away, get back, get down, get off etc. GET has come to mean give space to what ever you're doing. Lying down came along with the Get word (their idea cause I didn't really care what or where they went but just not whatever they were doing) as there was nothing better to do but wait till Mom had other ideas they'd go lie down if I said it in the house. some of the young ones will go play with themselves or each other but that's perfectly ok with me. So I say, I'm using it like Kristine's second version.

 

Funny, it's also a working command. Get out, get back, get off, again, get different or "off" what ever is on your mind. To Mick it means give distance. I can see how it's related.

I think it's one of the reasons I'll never get to be a big hat. I'm to general in our training. It blew me away (like how could I be so stupid to not think of those things) with I read about Derick S. and how his dogs have a different meaning for "that'll do" and "here" That'll do being at the side of his leg and here being right at the front of his knee. Such a great thing when trying to teach shedding. Mine were or are general commands. But I'm thinking way more about getting more particular in my meanings but that's gonna take major unlearning habits on my part. Long road for us!

 

Bustopher

I just don't have any BC's without an off switch. I think it's becuse I trained it in them while not being consious of it. It sure doesn't mean that at a split seconds notice, they're ready to be ON. I buggs me a bit when I hear of people saying they "have" to play for so many hours of the day. But it was once pointed out to me, I live in a perfect enviorment for BC's there's always something for them to do even if it's not play with me. Although mostly they lay around waiting for me to do something. So maybe that's why I get to say that!

 

Kristen

[BustopherJones]

Kristen, my comment was made in jest; others on this board have become accustomed to my droll sense of humor. Annie will respond to "Down" and "Rest" (each used in different contexts); she also responds to "Wait", which is a "pause" switch more than an "Off" switch, and "Enough", which ends her play sessions. Of course, as soon as she stops for any command, she is spring-loaded to go as soon as she is given a release...

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

lol.

I remember this part! I didn't watch ANY tv for a year I bet! It gets better though. I couldn't even tell you how I taught Daisy these things. Go Lie Down means leave me alone I'm sleeping and you should be too. Down is for down. Enough(with a pat on the head) is for, I'm done petting you, go get a bone. Go to your bed (her bed is actually right beside my computer where I do a lot of freelance work from) means go to your bed ... stop begging for attention. She used to be really bad with nipping and pawing at me when I was working and I found this very useful. At one point she actually crawled onto my lap when I was trying to make a logo for someone!!! A good thing to remember is patting a dog on the head can be very effective, they don't like it! And, ignoring them after the command is a good way to teach. Although every dog isn't the same! I don't think mine actually has an "off" switch....she's ready to rock and roll all day every day! But she's learned nice house manners. Repetition is key, the same tone, the same body posture, the same words, bc's are very sensitive to the slightest differences.

good luck!

julie

[bcnewe2]

Hey Bustopher

Just tell me to GET!

[3dogslater]

I had to teach our 11.5 year old foster dog how to settle in the house. If you left her with any toys, she'd throw them at your feet for hours, or place them on the couch beside you, take them off, put them back, literally for hours. We tried waiting her out to see if we could reward her when she stopped but it literally never happened.

 

I started by taking away all of her toys and things that could possibly be toys. I used a tie down in the room I was in so that she had limited room to move, could lay on her bed or move about six feet in any direction. As soon as she stopped moving I'd praise her calmly. Over a period of months she learned to settle down in the room we were in and we could give her back a non-ball toy.

 

We would bring out a ball and do interactive play with her, then put the ball away. We made every game one we started and finished and she was never allowed to choose when she got to play with us, although she became good at playing quietly by herself. After a few months she had a decent off-switch but would still try and play games her way.

 

My puppy didn't have an off-switch until he was approx. 14 or 15 months old. Not that he was demanding to play or being obnoxious, just that he *never* stopped moving. Zephyr was crated whenever I wasn't able to directly supervise him. That was the one place where he was able to settle down and sleep (and yes, he got lots of physical and mental exercise!).

 

One night he finally stopped moving and laid down so I rewarded him for that. Gradually he's getting better about being able to lie down and relax and was finally able to chill out at an agility trial and lie down at my feet in the stands. Previously he'd sit and watch everything happen, which was better than screaming and flailing at the end of his leash like the first time.

 

I don't think an eight month old puppy has an off-switch like you'd get with an older or adult dog. I use "settle" and the other three older dogs will stop playing and that helped teach the puppy to stop what he was doing. I started by taking the first dog by the collar and waiting for them to calm themselves down a little bit before letting them go back to playing. It was a gradual process though.

[SoloRiver]

I've had two adult Border Collies and am raising my first puppy and I don't get the problem.

 

Solo was a jacked-up 16 month old when I got him (and crazy to boot) but he learned to settle in the house when I wasn't paying attention to him.

 

Fly would throw toys at you all day if you let her, but she has learned that she can't induce me to play (I don't play with her unless I initiate the interaction) so she soon gives up and goes and lies down in a corner. She was about three when I got her.

 

Jett has learned to settle already because if it is not playtime, I don't play with her. If she starts having a puppy tantrum, into the crate she goes. Sure, she would probably go go go 24/7 if I let her, but I don't, and if it takes confinement to force her to take some down time, so be it. She goes in there with a nice chewie or meaty bone and that's that. She chews, and then pretty soon she's either lying quietly or sleeping.

 

I think if you establish a solid pattern of beginning and ending all interactions, and not giving in when your dogs pester you to play games, that's more than half the battle.

[Flamincomet]

Thanks for the thoughts and advice everyone! I know that BCs never actually turn "Off" (Except maybe when they're sleeping) that's just what I'd heard it addressed as.

 

I'll keep you all updated on how Ghost is doing.

 

Autumn

[Ruger's Dad]

This is the second thread about an off switch on Border Collies in the past week. I don't understand. Ruger is my first BC but he is what I expected. He will play all night sometimes. He is actually worse when people come over to visit. He bugs them incessantly to play frisbee. This can be annoying at times but I find it funny.

 

Border Collies are just high energy dogs. Their high energy, loyalty, and extreme intelligence is what sets them apart from the other dogs. Unlike a three year old, you can't pop a Lassie DVD into the TV and expect to entertain the dog.

 

I think Border Collie owners should be well versed on multitasking. Learn how to carve a turkey with one hand and throw a frisbee with the other. Learn how to watch your favorite movie while teaching the dog to either go over or under a raised leg.

[Janet808]

Well, I agree...BC's are very high energy! The best way to help, is to make sure you give your dog lots of exercise to help tire him out. It won't always work, but at least you know you've tried. lol I just tell Misty to "go lay down" "that's enough" and then ignore her, until she settles down. Now if your dog is getting into stuff, because he's all wound up, then you may need to do more mental exercises. Teach some tricks. Lay down, give paw, if he alread knows them, just work on them. Maybe this will help. Good Luck!

[Shetlander]

He is actually worse when people come over to visit. He bugs them incessantly to play frisbee. This can be annoying at times but I find it funny.

 

Different people have different expectations for their dogs. I do not expect my dogs to bug me or anyone else to play with them. I get annoyed when my dogs mug and vie for too long to be petted by visitors. And if I have guests over who don't want dogs all over them, the dogs are told to back off.

 

Border Collies are just high energy dogs.

 

No one is arguing that, of course and I'm not sure how much of a joke you're making about all this. Again, different expectations by different people. I'm with those who expect their Border Collies to be able to settle, amuse themselves and be pleasant companions around the house. Quinn gets lots of attention and games and training from me. But not endless attention, games and training. When I want to do something else, I love it that he's fine with lying at my feet, chewing on a toy, gazing out the window or dozing.

[Ruger's Dad]

Liz I was kidding some but I am pretty serious. If I wanted a dog to curl up at my feet while I smoked a pipe I would have bought a Lab. I would bet the reason most of the Border Collies that end up in rescues is because of the misunderstanding of high energy. Every site you go to warns you what to expect from this breed. They aren't kidding either.

 

Just my opinion.

[Flamincomet]

Ruger's Dad, I defidently agree with you that BCs are high-energy dogs, and I did a heck of a lot of research before getting one. (Ghost is my second BTW) Though I know they are high energy, I don't think it is too much to expect of him to settle down in the house, instead of bouncing off the walls, murdering his toys, pestering the cat, and bugging me to pay attention to him every 5 seconds. (Ok, that is an exaggeration, but it is alot! (And yes I do ignore him ))

 

And he does get physical/mental excersice every day. He gets to full out RUN at least once a day for at least 45 minutes, then it's ball throwing, tugs, and obedience training, along with runs thoughout the day in the backyard to get his "spirits" out. We also do herding, handling, and agility/rally classes, usually once a week each. (Though less lately because there's half a foot of snow on the ground ) We also make him work for his food, either by stuffing it into kongs and freezing it, or by making him sit/stay for a handful of food.

 

Though maybe that isn't enough, I'll up his excersie routine this week and see how he does.

 

Autumn

[Shetlander]

Liz I was kidding some but I am pretty serious. If I wanted a dog to curl up at my feet while I smoked a pipe I would have bought a Lab. I would bet the reason most of the Border Collies that end up in rescues is because of the misunderstanding of high energy. Every site you go to warns you what to expect from this breed. They aren't kidding either.

 

Again, I agree that BC's are high energy. I love Quinn's drive and desire to do things. But the belief that BC's are nonstop is one big reason that I said for several years I'd never, ever get a Border Collie. I need a dog who stops, or at least idles And I'm pretty sure farmers who depend the dogs to help them out do not spend the day and evenings keeping them entertained. There are times the dog needs to keep out of the way and not be a nuisance. I believe a good BC has an off switch. Or at least a good BC I can live with.

[bcnewe2]

And he does get physical/mental excersice every day. He gets to full out RUN at least once a day for at least 45 minutes, then it's ball throwing, tugs, and obedience training, along with runs thoughout the day in the backyard to get his "spirits" out. We also do herding, handling, and agility/rally classes, usually once a week each. (Though less lately because there's half a foot of snow on the ground ) We also make him work for his food, either by stuffing it into kongs and freezing it, or by making him sit/stay for a handful of food. Though maybe that isn't enough, I'll up his excersie routine this week and see how he does.

 

Do you think it might be like the over scheduled kid? Soccor, dance, music, scouts, school projects. When does he get to have down time?

I dunno, mine get to play outside with each other in the morning while they are doing the potty thing, then they eat and lay around the rest of the day. then it's work or training but definatly not each and every day and it's probably only 15 minutes to a half hour when they do, for the working dogs. Dinner, play/potty time with each other and lay around again. Even my 16 month old keen pup does this routine. Yes she might get the zoomies in the evening if we haven't worked in a few days, so, she might get maybe one more run around and play with another dog outside for 5 minutes or so, then back to resting.

 

I don't think I have lazy dogs, maybe I'm lazy? But it works for us.

how do you have all the time to do all that you do with Ghost? Don't get me wrong, I think you should do what you want with your pup and if you have time for all that, good on you. But are you not taking the time to chill out with Ghost so he doesn't know how? And now you're going to up his activity? Why?

 

Kristen

[Shetlander]

I don't think I have lazy dogs, maybe I'm lazy? But it works for us.

 

Ok, you just described me with my dogs. And it works for us, too.

[Flamincomet]

Do you think it might be like the over scheduled kid? Soccor, dance, music, scouts, school projects. When does he get to have down time?

I dunno, mine get to play outside with each other in the morning while they are doing the potty thing, then they eat and lay around the rest of the day. then it's work or training but definatly not each and every day and it's probably only 15 minutes to a half hour when they do, for the working dogs. Dinner, play/potty time with each other and lay around again. Even my 16 month old keen pup does this routine. Yes she might get the zoomies in the evening if we haven't worked in a few days, so, she might get maybe one more run around and play with another dog outside for 5 minutes or so, then back to resting.

 

I don't think I have lazy dogs, maybe I'm lazy? But it works for us.

how do you have all the time to do all that you do with Ghost? Don't get me wrong, I think you should do what you want with your pup and if you have time for all that, good on you. But are you not taking the time to chill out with Ghost so he doesn't know how? And now you're going to up his activity? Why?

 

Kristen

 

Oh, we DO have down time, at least, I TRY to, that is where the problem is. I love to read, and after being out in the 6 inches of snow with my pinky toe about to fall off I would love to just curl up on the bed and read a good book, but even AFTER all this excerise he is STILL bouncing off the walls and all that good stuff. And if I crate him there is no way I'd be able to read one sentence, as his shrieking and high pitched yelping is horendous.

 

And I have all this time because I don't have a job and I'm not starting my online vet assistant course until after my wedding in June. Though I am looking for a part-time job right now, and I'm expecting a lot of complaints when I start a job, from our neighbors (we live in a duplex with paper-thin walls ) if I don't get this problem under control soon.

 

Autumn