What is wrong with Riven?

[smileyzookie]

Ok, here's the deal. Riven has Seperation Anxiety (SA). I've been taking her basically everywhere with me so she doesnt freak. She tears out her fur if she's crated, so I usually let her run loose while Im gone. She normally barks, paces, and stares out the window till I come home. Even if hubby is here she paces and freaks at every little noise. Last night I went to church. When my hubby came home I had been gone about an hour. He found her curled up on the couch in a ball shaking. He said she acted like she had done the worst thing ever. When he touched her and loved on her she calmed down. This morning, I am helping my friend across the street clean her house. I always take Riven over with me, and today she came as well. I opened their back door (they have a fenced in backyard w/a lab she is used to), and she ran out like she had to pee. So I shut the door and let her do her duty, and let her in a few minutes later. She was foaming at the mouth. Like when a dog is carsick and slobbers...that kind of foaming. I saw her do that in her back yard a few days ago as well, but I knew then it was because one of the kids was trying to pull her into a sprinkler. She is scared of them, and I put a huge stop to that and chewed out the kid for it, and removed Riven from the situation. I dont know if she was scared that I left her out there, or if she was scared cause of the previous sprinkler incident (no one was out there, and there were no sprinklers on in the yard).

 

Im just really worried about her. I thought of taking her to the vet, but she isnt acting sick in terms of not feeling well. She's eating, running around, waggin her tail, followin me everywhere like usual. Im worried more about her mental state than physical. Can someone help me? I have tried the whole leave for a few seconds and then come back and gradually increase. I can NOT increase at all. She just will not calm down. I try leaving by different doors, never doing the same things I always do when I leave so she has no signal Im going. I've tried talking before I leave, being silent before I leave, talking when I come back, saying nothing when I come back. I just feel at my wits end with this. But I feel so horrible for Riven, because I cant comfort her and explain I WILL come back. .... I just dont know what to do.

 

My hubby will not get into the whole idea of HE has to get closer to her by feeding, walking, taking out ect. The vet already said if she could turn some affection onto him it wouldnt be so bad for her when I leave. But he's normally never home, he works like a dog.

[Root Beer]

I know that some people who have dogs with separation (or other) anxiety use "anxiety wraps". I've heard that some dogs respond really well to them. I don't really have first hand info, but you could do a google search on it.

 

I also know that some people have success with using something called "dog appeasing pheromone". That might also be something to look into.

 

Another thing you could try is melatonin. I used it with Speedy when he was in the throes of German Shepherd phobia and it did take the edge off. You can also google for more info on that.

 

The thing with these types of things is that they don't work for every dog, so it's hit or miss. But they do work for some dogs, so they can be worth a try.

 

There's a yahoo list for people with shy dogs - I know Riven isn't shy per se, but separation anxiety is one area that there is a lot of info on there. If you are interested in that, I can give you info.

[ErinKate]

How much true exercise does she get? A lot of times dogs with SA need more activity to occupy their time. Maybe the dog is fixated on you because she knows no differant? Almost an OCD situation.

Peppermint oil on the pads of the feet can help anxiety also.

[Laurae]

There is a very inexpensive fantastic booklet by Patricia McConnell called I'll Be Home Soon. It outlines a great protocol designed to gradually reduce a dog's SA. It's available here.

 

Best of luck with Riven--SA is really difficult on everyone

[bc4pack]

I'd start thinking about a trip to a vet behaviorist and perhaps some pharmaceutical help.

Definitely not a bad idea to join myself and others on the shy-k9s list... you can get some

help and support . In the past month or so some of us have started calling the group the 'shy bc club'.

We have ideas and suggestions for ALL type of anxieties and the stuff works. Even help you

figure out if you want to try meds or not...

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

LOTS of exercise coupled with Clomicalm twice daily has been a lifesaver for my SA dog. She can actually stay out of her crate now but it took me a year and a half of cleaning up a crap-encrusted crate (with deep nail gouges in it) before things started to settle down for her.

 

As for foaming at the mouth, I've heard that doing so increases a dog's sense of smell which is why you see a lot of dogs do it at dog parks or other places where there have been a lot of strange dogs. Everytime an adopter brings a dog here to meet one of my fosters, they start freaking out when their dog starts foaming at the mouth. I have to explain this theory everytime. There have been A LOT of dogs in my backyard. Generally, well-socialized dogs don't have this happen as much as they are used to smelling lots of strange dogs. None of my dogs foam at the mouth because they are exposed to hundreds of strange dogs at all of the various sports events they go to, demos, trips, etc.

[luv2napp]

This may seem like a silly question, but does she only foam at the mouth when she's outside? The reason I ask, is because Lacee used to lick frogs in our backyard and that would cause her to foam at the mouth. No matter what I did, she always found them and licked. It was like an obsession with her.

[smileyzookie]

So now Im really starting to worry. She pee'd this morning, but wouldnt a few minutes ago. I dont think she's drank any water either... Im really gettin concerned.

[Bo Peep]

Maybe a trip to the vet might be in order. It's worth the money if it makes you feel better.

[Guest LJS1993]

I hope things go well and Riven is doing better. I can really relate after my latest worries with Freckles and her mental state.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Personally, I would just keep an eye on her for now as all of the "symptoms" you mention seem totally unrelated and none are really alarming, IMO.

 

As far as the SA goes, what does she do when you are gone? Does she just act scared when you leave/return? Does she eliminate in the house? Scratch floors/doors near exits? Bark the whole time? These are pretty classic symptoms of SA. If she is experiencing these symptoms you may want to discuss medication options with your vet. For now, I would definitely cut out the "loving on her" thing when you get home. Making a big deal out of your arrival only makes your departure that much more stressful the next time. Fixing SA is mostly YOU changing your habits and routine. Don't make a big deal out of leaving. Just leave. Don't say bye. Don't try to talk to her or explain you'll be back. Just put her where she is to stay for the day and turn and leave. When you get home, don't coddle her and love on her. Just pretend like it's any other time of the day. Let her out to potty, feed her, whatever. Love on her after the whole "you're home" thing is over with. You may also want to look into D.A.P. sprays or diffusers.

[smileyzookie]

Ok I came home and she was acting her usual excited self to see me. I changed clothes and heard her getting a drink, so she did drink.... Thank God. Im just so worried about her. Thanks everyone for your advice. Thanks especially to Debbie, your last post did calm me down.

[ClickMeBC]

I have a book to reccomend - have you read Jan Fennell's The Dog Listener? Jan Fennell is a well known trainer residing in England, where she works with people and their damaged and delinquent dogs, teaching everyone to co-exist in peace and understanding and to maintain quality relationships. She does this through her ingenious methods of taking on and modifying the behaviors the Alpha pair of any wolf pack would display to incorporate them into everday life with her dogs, while at the same time keeping safe the trust and love her dogs hold for her. Separation Anxiety is a number one problem she applies her methods to and she works through it in great detail in her book.

 

You can learn more and purchase her book/s at Jan Fennell's Website.

 

Hopefully Riven's anxiety will improve with all of your efforts. I would continue to keep an eye on her and watch for any regression or other strange symptoms.

[sweet_ceana]

I wish I had some advice I could give... but you have my support! Although Ceana's problems are different I comiserate (sp?) in regards to the feeling of fraustration. When ever you stressed go get a good lick in the face... licks are always followed by smiles

[Tammy525]

Good luck, Smiley. Scout has some leanings in that direction at times, but then seems to snap out of it, when his lab side overtakes the BC side. You can actually see this happen, its like a dissociative disorder or something! But we'd rather he keep both sides, as just when the lab side is driving us crazy, he switches to his BC side and vice versa.

[sharkie]

i don't know if this is same with dogs but anxiety attacks can't be always be put into remission. even with drugs and behavioral therapy the goals have to be realistic as there still could be future incidences, just less frequent and shorter in duration compared to those on no treatment

[M.L.]

I haven't been following Riven's SA, but have you tried getting her to like her crate? Easier said than done, I know! Many of the issues you describe I have seen in Willow, my rescue from the pound. And I still have some of those issues with her when she is not in her crate. I took the advice of many people on this board when I first got her, and some things I had to adjust to what I felt was working with Willow. When I first brought her home, I thought, let me get her her own crate and that is where she will be when I'm not home. OMG!!! Not that easy. She is a wee BC, only 29 lbs. She moved that crate 5 feet across the floor. She scratched huge gouges in it. She had diarrhea every time I left her in it for many months. Even if I was only gone for ten minutes. I would come home to an awful stench and have to give her a bath and scrub the crate. She licked her paws until her white hair was dark pink. She pulled out chunks of hair every now and then. She salivated huge puddles inside and outside the crate. She cried and barked. She fought me to go into the crate. I tried leaving her out, and she ripped apart trim, tried digging though tile, had diarhhea all over the floor.

 

My first intinct was to take her everywhere with me. I gave her too much attention. She only became more protective of me and more crazy when I left. Somebody on the board told me to ignore her, as harsh as it seems. It was so hard for me to do. But she did detach herself from me a bit, as well as gaining more confidence to be separated from me.

 

And we worked on the crate. I made me so sad to force her into it because she seemed terrified, but leaving her to roam the house to ruin things and possibly really hurt herself was not an option. I fed her in the crate. I sat next to her and read while she was in the crate. I put yummy tasty treats in the crate. I put new toys in the crate. I'd put her in for a minute, close the door, walk away, and then let her out.

 

At first she wouldn't go in on her own. Eventually we got to where she would quickly go in on her own to grab the goody inside, then retreat as fast as she could. Eventually we got to where she would go in on her own, but still cry and lick her paws and salivate like crazy. If I moved the crate to a different spot in the house she would not go in. She would freak out.

 

It took many, many, many long and patient months, but now the crate is her safe spot. I believe she feels safest there when I am gone. She doesn't bark and cry anymore. She doesn't try to escape. She actually eats the treats I leave in with her and has her favorite toy that goes in with her. She doesn't salivate and she hasn't had pink legs in ages! And she goes in on her own, even from downstairs. I say go to your crate and she goes happily now. I can move the crate around or take in when I travel or visit friends and she is fine with that.

 

This is a dog that still crys when I leave if she is out of her crate even if my boyfriend is still inside, who will scratch at the door like a crazy dog when I leave if I don't put her in her crate. When we go visiting others she will get very nervous if she can't see me. She will start whining, pacing, and salivating. Even if I am in plain sight, for instance sitting in the living room and she can see me though sliding glass doors, she will get very nervous and start acting out. She has stayed with with friends a few times, and did ok after a few hours.

 

I don't know if any of this will help, but you never know! I thought I would never get Willow to be ok with being in her crate, and turns out that now it is her safe spot where she feels safe and secure without me.