Hill's Perscription Diet

[gypsy84]

My sister is an Animal Health Technologist and works in a vet's office. Tonight she brought home 2 bags of Hill's Perscription Diet and told me I could buy one 40kg bag for $20 from her - she gets it discounted. This is the bag she brought home.

 

I was under the impression (at least from what I've read) that corn and rice are mainly used as fillers, and are not essential to a dog's diet. Also I've read that a good quality food will have at least 2 different real meat sources in the first 3 ingredients - not including by-products or meals.

 

Ingredients

Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphophate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-Carotene.

 

Most of that is just mumbo jumbo to me, I can't tell if it's the best food you can buy (as I was told) or if it's a load of crap. Is it a quality food? Right now Gypsy's finishing off the last of her Nutro Max puppy - the bag was so big it lasted til now.

 

I do need to get her a new bag of food soon. I've looked for Canidae but I don't think any stores around here carry it. And I can't afford to pay more than $40 for a bag. I've considered going raw but I love the convenience of taking a scoop of kibble from the bin twice a day.

 

I know there's been so much talk of different foods lately especially with the recall, but I've tried searching and nothing's come up about the Perscription Diet food.

[sharkie]

i know this for sure:

 

Added Antioxidants Help reduce free radical damage to counteract oxidative stress

 

= no real benefit

 

[edit] my bad ...lets not use such strong language . btw isn't this product marketed for dogs that have teeth problems?

[bexie]

It lacks decent meat is what my recently-acquired knowledge (read links in old food threads) says.

 

You've got brewer's rice, which isn't complete rice, first. then corn. Your third ingredient is "chicken byproduct meal"--which would mean ground up leftover chicken parts... like guts and who knows what else, but not CHICKEN. Powdered cellulose? No clue. Then the fat.

 

I'd say you can probably do just as well with the cheap stuff from the supermarket, but that's just an inexperienced guess.

 

I think I also remember reading that the BHA and BHT aren't good either. They're preservatives but a food made with higher quality ingredients can be preserved more naturally.

[sharkie]

about the cellulose part, the site said its basically its specially formulated to act like a tooth brush for the dogs teeth...which was the main purpose for the product

[Beth G]

Yup it's got everything that dogs DON'T need. I wouldn't feed it to my dogs. Plus it is for dogs with dental problems.

[sharkie]

i'm very curious as well after visiting the site and looking at some of the other prescription diet products could some1 shed some light? to me it seems that these products are formulated for specific conditions and are not intended for regular feeding for healthy dogs

[smileyzookie]

My dog was being fed the dental Science Diet and it did work, until we missed feeding it a few times and her breath was HORRIBLE as before. With the raw, she doesnt have bad breath, and her coat looks TONS better.

[sluj]

FWIW, Canidae is sold in and around Winnepeg: http://canidae.know-where.com/canidae/cgi/...ult&lang=en

 

I don't know how much you'll pay - at my local chain it's $37 (USD) for a 40lb bag, and my impression is that's at the higher end for the spectrum. If you contact the company, there is a frequent buyer program, that is not exactly advertised, but it could get you the occasional free bag. My Allie (who is mixed with something big, maybe staffie or lab or ridgeback), is a lean 53 pounds, and eats 2.5 cups a day. So a 40lb bag lasted her a little over two months.

 

Oh, and the vet tech and emergency vet both complimented her on her "purty chompers" a few weeks ago, so it's not turning her teeth to mush.

[Brandon M]

my dog eats canidae. he used to eat Iams, which I though was ok at first, then I was told be people here on the boards how to read and judge nutrients labels. Canidae is the best food I can buy locally.

[Bill Fosher]

That looks like shockingly bad dog food -- especially for something that you would normally pay vet-clinic prices for.

 

The protein to fat ratio is nearly 1:1, and should be 3:2 for an active dog. The only thing I would say in its favor is that you can apparently get it for a very cheap price, if it really is a 40 kg bag as opposed to a 40 lb bag. If you can get it for that little, I'd consider buying it and mixing it with something that's better, but too high in protein, as most kibble is.

[Brandon M]

That looks like shockingly bad dog food -- especially for something that you would normally pay vet-clinic prices for.

 

The protein to fat ratio is nearly 1:1, and should be 3:2 for an active dog. The only thing I would say in its favor is that you can apparently get it for a very cheap price, if it really is a 40 kg bag as opposed to a 40 lb bag. If you can get it for that little, I'd consider buying it and mixing it with something that's better, but too high in protein, as most kibble is.

 

yeah if I could get almost 90lbs of kibble for 20 bucks Id think about mixing it with good kibble. or doing something with it. even selling it to someone else who needs dog food and needs it cheap

[sea4th]

A few years ago, when my Pete became sick with multiple things attacking him at one time, one of those things was kidney failure in it's very early stages. The vet suggested early kidney diet. I was desperate to try anything - Pete was my heart - and so I put him on it. Pete took a turn for the worse to the point where after a few weeks on this diet, I was carrying him into the vet's office. He couldn't even walk on his own. Then he stopped eating altogether and that's when I discovered raw and made the decision to take him off this garbage once and for all. It was a premade raw and this is what Pete ate for the rest of his life - another 4 years. 10 wks. after being started on this raw food, Pete was working sheep again, a little slower, yes, but then he'd been pretty sick and he was an old guy too.

 

Did the food actually MAKE him worse or did he take a turn for the worse and the food just wasn't helping (which, with a name like "prescription diet", I would assume it's got some benefits). I don't know, but the change in Pete, once I took him off Hill's and put him on this raw diet, was pretty darned dramatic.

 

Everyone can draw their own conclusions. I know what I think.

[juliepoudrier]

Another thing to consider is the fact that the food is preserved with BHA and BHT. I would steer clear of feeds that use those preservatives, as well as ethoxyquin. Look for food that contains mixed tocopherols as a preservative.

 

I think the prescription diets could have their place in special situations, and certainly they were useful before such a wide variety of very high-quality feeds became widely available, but now that those very high quality feeds are available, I think you could probably find a good food, even for dogs with special medical conditions, without having to compromise and use a product like Science Diet. JMO.

 

J.

[BustopherJones]

You may recall a recent post about a dog food grading system developed by Merck. According to the rating system used, Science Diet, also made by Hill's, was very low on the list, receiving a "F" (Failing) grade. Whether there is any direct correlation between the quality of the variants of Hill's products is purely speculative; but if you wish to place any credence in Merck's rating system, then this is worth keeping in mind.

 

Both of my dogs are on prescription diets; my vet specifies IVD or Royal Canin for them, mixed with IVD Intestinal HE moist food for Annie, and Innova Senior and Merrick moist foods for Missy. I am sure that there are other quality products as well. My vet does not receive any "payola" for recommending specific foods, and stocks only what she believes are the best products; so I trust the items that she specifies.

 

FYI, the following is a listing of commercial (non-prescription) foods that, according to Merck's system, received a rating of A+ or A:

Score Brand

127 Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score A+

122 Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score A+

122 Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score A+

122 Nature's Variety Raw Instinct / Score A+

120 Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score A+

116 Authority Harvest Baked / Score A+

116 Nature's Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score A+

115 Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

114 Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score A+

114 Innova Dog / Score A+

114 Innova Evo / Score A+

112 Canidae / Score A+

110 Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score A+

110 Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score A+

109 Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score A+

107 Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score A+

106 Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score A+

106 Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score A+

106 Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score A+

106 Foundations / Score A+

106 Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score A+

104 Nutro Ultra Adult / Score A+

103 Royal Canin Boxer / Score A+

102 EaglePack Holistic / Score A+

101 Beowulf Back to Basics / Score A+

101 Flint River Senior / Score A+

101 Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Puppy / Score A+

100 Nature's Recipe / Score A+

100 Royal Canin Bulldog / Score A+

99 Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score A

99 Solid Gold / Score A

99 Summit / Score A

98 Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score A

97 Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score A

97 Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score A

95 Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score A

94 Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score A

[Shetlander]

I have to say that I've had a few dogs over the years who have done very well on prescription diets. My first Lhasa was on CD for kidney issues and lived to 16 and it wasn't his kidneys that were causing any problems. My sheltie has IBD with allergies and the Ultra ZD has her back in great health, shiny coat, playful and happy. This was after months of diarrhea, vomitting, weight loss and lowered activity level. I don't like the ingrediants either but for the kibble is working for my girl and that's what I'm going by.

 

BTW, the kibble is far, far from cheap.

[PSmitty]

Umm, I know this isn't the most diplomatic way to put this, but that is not a good food. Not at all, for reasons already mentioned (corn, rice, where's the meat?, BHT/BHA). I would not feed my dog this food. As for the best there is? Hardly, IMO.

 

Check out: www.dogfoodproject.com. Compare ingredients of foods like Canidae, Innova, Evo, Barking at the Moon (Solid Gold), some of the Timberwolf Organics products, Eagle Pack with this food, and you'll see big difference.

 

I see this bag is specifically for dogs with dental issues. There are several things I've heard of recently that could be used instead (Fragaria Vesca and Petzlife...I've heard good things about both).

 

Good luck finding something in your area.

[gypsy84]

My mistake - it's a 40lb bag for $20.

 

I really didn't think it was that great of a food, but my sister was determined that it was and when I questioned her judgement she got offended. I suppose I'll pass on the offer and try to find a better quality kibble.

 

I had gone to one of the stores advertised as carrying Canidae, and the woman working there told me they don't carry it because they had problems with ordering it from the states. I'll call the other places and see if they have it though.

 

Thanks for all the replies

[sharkie]

i'm sure that some of the prescription diet would work, but the whole antioxidant thing and branding it "prescription" is just a marketing gimmick. how many prescriptions actually have the word "prescritption" with its brand name?

 

nutritional therapy is not that complicated...the best way imo would be to do some research of what kind of diet the dog needs given the condition and formulate your own food.

 

the thing is with supplements is that they work well "in theory" but most don't have any clinical benefits. those that do work have limited effects and many will only work a specific set of population

[sluj]

110 Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score A+

 

Kirkland did recall one of their canned products (made by american Nutrition), but as Merck points out, their dry kibble seems to have good ingredients. If you have a Costco membership, it's less than 20 USD for a 40lb bag.

[smileyzookie]

I cant speak for Canidae, but I feed Rohan Felidae. Rohan was eating Science Diet, and I thought he was doing well on it. I can not even begin to describe the drastic change in him when we switched to Felidae. Rohan has always been very small, he was sick repeatedly as a kitten and put on Science Diet to help him. Knowing what I know now, I think Felidae could have saved us quite a bit of money on vet bills. Since putting him on Felidae, he has gained weight, he's now over 8.5 pounds, his fur is SO soft and not greasy looking. And, believe it or not he has become more loving. That may not be the food, but just his aging, but I figured I'd share that too. If I wasnt feeding Riven raw, Canidae would definately be my choice in food.

[gypsy84]

I've called all the pet stores in Winnipeg and only 2 of them carry Canidae. A 40lb bag is $56.99 not including tax.

 

I think I might look into the Kirkalnd food, it sounds pretty good.

[Millie&MeBC]

Erm, Science Diet is a pretty poor quality food. I see barely any meat and plenty of cheap fillers and byproducts.

 

Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphophate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-Carotene.

 

Brewer's rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice. Brewer's rice is a lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in ground rice and ground brown rice.

 

Chicken by-product meal consists of the dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken by-product meal is an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions, and their questionable nutritional value.

 

Soybean mill run is composed of soybean hulls and such bean meats that adhere to the hulls which results from normal milling operations in the production of dehulled soybean meal. Commonly referred to as 'floor sweepings,' this ingredient is nothing more than an inexpensive filler with little or no nutritional value.

 

Egg product is product obtained from egg graders, egg breakers, and/or hatchery operations that is dehydrated, handled as liquid, or frozen. Egg product consists of the unused leftovers from eggs for human production. It can include undeveloped eggs, shells, and other tissues unfit for human consumption.

 

(Ingredient info taken from: http://www.naturapet.com/tools/ingredient.asp)

[sharkie]

may i point point of something i hope yall not grossed out, but chikin necks and especially the feet are considered an asian delicacy.

soybean left overs are used to make tofus YUM