ShoresDog Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Oh my goodness! At the Red Bluff Bull and Gelding Sale near Redding, California, a border collie was sold for $23,000. And two others for $8500 and $8200. Is this anywhere near normal for really good stockdogs? $23,000 border collie! Red Bluff Bull and Gelding Sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I second the WOW! But really, if Patch is able to work for another 7 years, his owner will be paying about $3300/year for a pretty good "hired hand". That is still a bargin in the right cattle operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc friend Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Originally posted by Maralynn:I second the WOW! But really, if Patch is able to work for another 7 years, his owner will be paying about $3300/year for a pretty good "hired hand". That is still a bargin in the right cattle operation. Not to mention stud fees if Patch is still intact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Originally posted by bc friend:Not to mention stud fees if Patch is still intact! Breed him based on what, exactly? The fact that two ranchers wanted the same dog and one was willing to pay $23,000 while the other drew the line at $22,500? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I have some swamp land...any takers?.... I'm all for a good dog being sold for a good price but that's nuts. I could see the 82xx and 85xx if you had the money and really, needed a great dog. But $23,000? As they say, there's one born every day. Someone asked if I'd sell my favorite working dog and for how much, all I could think of was that commercial, pup...$xxx training...$xxxx training dog's given me and my best bud..priceless. I think that's why the guy asked, he knew I wouldn't sell him for any price. Wonder if I'd have thought twice for that price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 $23,000 just isn't that much money to alot of people. Might of been a prestige thing along with a very fine dog. Anybody know any additional information about this paticular deal that would clarify the record price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 i believe last year the highest price dog was $15,000 ... and it's what you can expect when some fine dogs go up for auction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Perhaps the McCallum border collies (ones that can breed, say) are either rare or extremely special? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Yeah, good dogs sell for a ton. I'm not shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toney Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I don't know anything about the dog mentioned specifically, but I follow cattle trials a bit. Cattle trials, particularly in the West, tend to have large monetary awards, much like cutting horse contests do. The entry fees are appreciably higher as well, often several hundred dollars per run. The Rodear trial paid out $7500.00 for first place,and some series of trials will pay out an excess of $60,000.00 in prize money, so, potentially, I suppose, the dog could make a fair amount of the purchase price back- assuming that he doesn't get hurt, that he clicks well with his new handler and that he was something special and had won several trials to begin with. I believe that one dog, a female named Ellie (in 2005), won about $18,000 in a year's time and then she came up missing. A few days later, she walked into the open door of a church and one of the ranchers reached out and held her until the sermon was over and then returned her to her owner. I can't remember all the details. but that's the gist of the story and I thought it was a nice ending. As far as the dog in the article "Patch" goes, it appears by the news article he was "half Mc Callum", but I couldn't find Venable (the trainer listed in the article) on the working order on the internet. I might have missed it, though. I am sure more info will be posted on http://www.cowdognews.com as soon as the webmaster gets back from Red Bluff, if you are interested. PS, Mc Callums are not that rare, although perhaps dogs from Tony McCallum's direct Australian lines are more difficult to come by. The tend to heavily resemble a smooth coated border collie, and most of the ones I have seen as white factored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoBC Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 WOW that's a lot of money! More than I have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg's mum Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I really wish they wouldn't offer such purses. It almost sounds as if the dogs are being bred for the purse possibilities and not for the job of day in day out moving of stock. At least a dog that has such a high market value would be hard to steal and sell for anything like what it cost the original owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toney Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Interestingly enough, the only dog listed named "Patch" placed 40th in the cattledog trial, from what I can see on the website. Maybe I am misinterpreting it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 really wish they wouldn't offer such purses. It almost sounds as if the dogs are being bred for the purse possibilities and not for the job of day in day out moving of stock. >>>>Meg's Mum I would tend to agree except that, at least here in the West, its become downright impossible to win with a dog that doesn't have the job of moving cattle day in and day out. I have competed a long time in cattle dog trials and can no longer keep up without having access to "real" cattle work. A lot of the courses are changing from the traditional (yet still difficult) USBCHA type model to things like the rodear and sorting tasks that are meant, and rightly so, to give a rancher who uses his/her dog for everyday work a real advantage. The only thing that bothered me about one of the articles I read was that McCallum dogs were represented as a breed, not a line of Border Collies. I have a McCallum bred dog, but she's a registered Border Collie first, her breeding is second. I wondered if this was a reporter's mistake or is there an attempt to create a "breed" now out of this line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Originally posted by Smokjbc: The only thing that bothered me about one of the articles I read was that McCallum dogs were represented as a breed, not a line of Border Collies. I have a McCallum bred dog, but she's a registered Border Collie first, her breeding is second. I wondered if this was a reporter's mistake or is there an attempt to create a "breed" now out of this line? Well from the looks of this I would think that is exactly whats going onMcCallum Cowdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 IronHorse, I looked at the same page last night and noticed they are shown as a breed of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingRiver Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Kinda sad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Well.. I wouldn't call it sad.. I guess compared to the "designer dog" trend there are far worse things that could be said about it. Compared to what I see bred here locally, which leaves much to be desired, it isn't bad at all. I do think that Mr. Maccullum has succeeded in fixing a very distinct type of dog that can be a very effective cow dog. I know my dog's sire is one of the best I've seen and he was very true to that type. I am not sure I really disagree with it as much as I wanted to clarify that that was what the article truly represented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrayburn Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I don't find that sad at all. It seems like they are breeding dogs for their working ability, specifically for day-to-day tasks. Their goals are the same as that of the majority of board members. They are following a process similar to what gave us the border collie in the first place. What's wrong with that? Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Originally posted by lrayburn:I don't find that sad at all. It seems like they are breeding dogs for their working ability, specifically for day-to-day tasks. Their goals are the same as that of the majority of board members. They are following a process similar to what gave us the border collie in the first place. What's wrong with that? Lisa I tend to agree,after all isn't this the way to go about creating a new breed and getting it recognized?Now if it were a situation that was just creating another registry for BCs I would be against it,but from what I can tell that is not the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 It doesn't sound sad to me for the McCallum dogs, but it may sound sad if it's taken as an implication that the term "border collie" doesn't carry enough weight for folks wanting working dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg's mum Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Are the behavioral characteristics and abilities the same between good 'cattle movers' and good 'sheep movers'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 What I don't get is that if McCallum started with *border collies* and is selectively breeding those *border collies* to "create" the McCallum cowdog, with no outside breed influences, then how are his dogs anything but border collies? Sure, with linebreeding, etc., he can fix some specific traits, but I don't think they are a separate breed. JMO. Heidi, You'll get disagreement on that. Cattle working dogs definitely need a willingness to bite, both head and heel, but frankly, I think a good sheepdog needs to be willing to do the same. Personally, I expect my dogs to be able to work both (since sometimes we need to). There is a culture that wants/requires a dog that is much rougher on stock, but IMO those aren't the best working dogs, of either cattle or sheep. The dogs are supposed to be a stress-free way of moving stock. If your dog is constantly biting or harrassing stock, or causing them to run, it's costing *you* (the livestock producer) money by running/stressing weight off that stock (there are exceptions, of course, as with all generalities). So really the ideal should be a dog that can move stock quietly and calmly--backed up with teeth when necessary. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I understand the need for a good working dog, especially on large operations. But $23,000? I wouldn't pay $23,000 to watch a pissant eat a bale of hay! I think it is a prestige thing more than anything else. Would the winner of the ISD finals be worth even more? I doubt it. But because this dog was called a McCallum dog, the price went up! Sorta like paying $4-500 for a pup out of excellent working parents, or $1,000 to $1,500 for an ACK pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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