Melodie Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I think my collie is pregnant but i am not too sure, she was lined with a dog that has been used regularly for this purpose and everything was done properly, the timing was right, they were locked for 20 minutes. This all happened over 3 weeks ago now and i have noticed that her teats are larger than normal, she lies down majority of the time, wants more cuddles and attention and has become quite greedy always wanting more food. Do u think that she has been caught, i hope so because i want her to have her first puppies, she also has 2 main corners that she lies in as well. Can some one please let me know the signs of very early pregnancy because the vets here in the UK are very expensive, any one help ??????????? thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Got my coffee and standing by for the happenings on this one...yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Melodie, Why are you posting this topic again? You already have a couple of answers to your previous post this morning (at ~ 9 a.m.). Just look down the list till you see that original post. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dear doG. If you cannot afford a veterinarian you cannot afford to raise puppies. End of story. A girlfriend of mine just footed the very large bill for a litter of BC pups that were dumped in rescue AS the bitch was giving birth because a puppy got stuck, she needed a ceserean and the owners wouldn't/couldn't pay for it and said to the vet they waited ages to take her to - "just put her down." Now she's got five pups (half of them died) and an incontinent bitch to deal with, and pay for. CESEREANS ARE NOT CHEAP and they are not that uncommon either. How is it, in this day and age, with all the information available to people, that they still breed their dogs with NO clue what they are doing, how to care for the bitch during pregnancy, or any thought to the fact that if they can't afford or aren't wiling to pay for a simple visit to determine wether their dog is pregnant they have no business breeding whatsoever. This completely sickens and saddens me. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I agree. The major reason I always fix all my dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Since we seem to be responding to this thread now, I will post a link to the other one, since I posted a link there to a recent discussion on this very subject: http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...ic;f=1;t=011712 I happen to agree with RDM. If you are not prepared for the basic expense of breeding and properly caring for a bitch, and if you haven't even bothered to do the research beforehand to let you know basics like signs a bitch is pregnant, you have NO BUSINESS BREEDING. Cutting corners is not likely to save you money in the long run. Your bitch ought to mean more to you than that. RDM, the story you related is simply awful. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I agree with RDM 100%. It takes a lot to have pups - a lot of money (not to mention the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna frankland (uk) Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 hi there, i would just like to suggest, if you are concerned about expense, to give your vets a call and ask them over the phone what they think. i live in the uk and my vets are wonderful, they will always give me advice at no charge on the phone. i think this is probably standard across the country. though they may suggest regular check ups as the (possible) pregnancy progresses in order to make sure any problems will be picked up in time to do something about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 About this one and the one RDM described. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melodie Posted July 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I just want to say thank you to those who havent helped me at all, all you have done is slate me, money isnt a problem, i was wanting to use the vets as a last resort, this is a first time for my Gem and me so all i wanted was some HELPFUL advice which i never got, Sorry i even asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melodie Posted July 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Except from you Donna Frankland, thank you again, i appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 i was wanting to use the vets as a last resort, this is a first time for my Gem and me so all i wanted was some HELPFUL advice which i never gotHi Melodie. The quote that Julie supplied you with has a lot of great information, and I hope you'll read it! The best advice I can give is to use your Vet as a primary resource! In your position (ie what's done is done, and now you need help - although this appears to have been irresponsibly done) my VERY first thing would be to take her in to see the vet, and to get their assistance. The secondary thing would be to hit the local library, or other bookstore, and find some books on whelping, and care for your bitch and her potential puppies. You say money isn't a problem, but you said in your first post that Can some one please let me know the signs of very early pregnancy because the vets here in the UK are very expensiveI think the very best thing you can do is to call your vet at the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Sorry... but when you come to forums like this you get hoensty. And if it's your first time or not, you should know these things BEFORE you breed your dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melodie Posted July 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 This wasnt irresponsibly done, i looked into all the information i had before i decided to go ahead and i got information from a local breeder so i know what i am doing, the vets here are expensive but as i have 2 border collies any way i know that they are there if i need them and i have already spoken to them on the phone, all i was looking for was little signs of dog pregnancy that was all, not to get all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Melodie, you should really have a basic understanding of the culture of a particular forum before you post a question on it. Had you done so, you would not be so surprised at the tone of the responses you have received here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Melodie, You might want to read this:Welcome to the Boards Most everyone here is just being honest with you. They are asking why are you breeding your dog? Is she a working border collie? Is she from working parents? Is this litter meant to work or just so you can say your dog is having puppies? What are your plans for these pups and do you plan to take responsibility for them for the rest of their lives? There are many responsible people with working dogs here trying to protect the breed. There are more of us that work in rescue or have rescued a companion animal. We all pretty much have the same opinon, that unless you are breeding for working traits, on proven working dogs, why are you breeding at all. The shelters and foster homes are full up with border collies in need. You came here looking for advise and we are only asking logical questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 A search of the internet for "signs of dog pregnancy" might give you what you wanted. I think that people here use every chance they can to point out the problems with irresponsible breeding because it would be bad if someone came here and just read the boards without posting, searched for information, and did not get both sides of the situations they read about. They would then possibly make decisions based on incomplete information. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Melodie, If you would simply go to the link I posted in your first thread and again in this thread (in this thread, you will have to click on the link to your first thread and then click on the link I put there to the other discussion) you would find a detailed discussion about signs of pregnancy, including information from a vet who posts to this forum. If that's not the help you asked for I don't know what is. I certainly can't force you to click on the links and read the information (I did the search for you--all you have to do is click on the link(s) if that's not too much trouble), but it is there for the reading. Sheesh! Besides, if you got information from a local breeder, couldn't that person help you with determining the signs of pregnancy? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melodie Posted July 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 thank you julie, gem's mother is a working dog and thats why i am breeding her, for working, but as it is my first time i wasnt sure, so i will look at the links, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Cheri McDonald:There are more of us that work in rescue or have rescued a companion animal... The shelters and foster homes are full up with border collies in need. For example, currently available through the local rescue here in Prescott, Shadow and Missy Just by way of explaining why people here are so passionate about rescue and appropriate breeding practices. For every one of our dogs that have found a forever home via rescue, there are probably thousands who have been euthanized, or are still looking for a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Melodie, I hope Gem's pregnancy will go without any problems and you would find nice homes for all the pups! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nancy, what beautiful dogs. Are you working with ABCR? I am in Tucson, and am a foster home for ABCR, and I think I am addicted to being a foster home for border collies! I am awaiting my next foster dog at the moment. By the way, my first BC looked a VERY great deal like the dog you have pictured next to your name. She was found on a highway south of Tucson running loose. Always wondered where she came from. Wonder if she is related to your dog? Melodie..........please take what people say here as coming from the heart of folks who care deeply for this breed and have the best interests of the breed in mind. You will find help and a lot of information here, but if you are breeding without knowing what you are doing you will receive honest feedback telling you that you should be more educated, and take more care. Take it for what it is and stay with the Boards because you will learn a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRayBee Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Melodie: gem's mother is a working dog and thats why i am breeding her Forgive the bluntness....but SO WHAT???? This is your reason for breeding- seriously?? I don't expect an answer, and it's too late to do the right thing (ie: don't breed in the first place)....and my inner cynic tells me this is all falling on deaf ears anyway. Once again, I applaud the nearly Job-like patience of those who rescue. Scenarios like this ensure your continued hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melodie Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Thank you everyone for your help, im sorry if i put it across wrong, it wasnt meant to come out that way, i can afford vets and i know what im doing, i just wasnt sure of dogs pregnancy signs, but can i say one thing to MRSNAPPY, who the hell do u think you are calling me irresponsible? i love my dogs with all my heart, if i didnt like dogs i wouldnt have them, so dont you ever speak to me like that again or i will report you, oh and i dont plead with anyone. But to everyone else, thank you, i know you are being honest with me and only trying to help, but i do know what im letting myself in for.If Gem is pregnant then the pups will be used for working, thats why i got her fixed in the first place. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Melodie - When you post in a public forum, you can expect replies from people that, based on what you've written in your posts, may not agree with you. Your posts and questions have left the impression to many members that you are what we call over here, a backyard breeder. If you'd read the "READ THIS FIRST" at the top of this General section, you'd understand the philosophy of the USBCC boards and perhaps understand why your posts on this thread have produced some replies that you haven't appreciated. ...because the vets here in the UK are very expensive...Your first post implied that you wanted opinions because you didn't know the signs of early pregnancy (which can be hard to detect, particularly since many unbred bitches can show signs of false pregnancy) and the cost of veterinary advice was expensive. It was logical that folks would infer from your post that you couldn't/wouldn't pay for vet advice/care. If a person can't afford (and you say you can later) vet advice, that person shouldn't be breeding, no matter how good the match might be. Mr. Snappy was understandably concerned about this, based on her extensive experience (an example of which she elaborated) in Border Collie rescue efforts. ...i was wanting to use the vets as a last resort...Your vet should be your first resort for serious concerns, not the internet. ...i got information from a local breeder so i know what i am doing...The saying comes to my mind, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Your posts seem to imply otherwise. ...gem's mother is a working dog and thats why i am breeding her...If Gem is pregnant then the pups will be used for working...Just because a dog's mother is a working dog doesn't make her breeding-worthy. What has Gem done/accomplished in terms of stockwork herself to consider her worthy breeding stock? What does she have to contribute to the future of the Border Collie breed? How is breeding her a contribution to the preservation and improvement of the breed? Do you have suitable homes lined up already for all the potential puppies? ...can i say one thing to MRSNAPPY, who the hell do u think you are calling me irresponsible? i love my dogs with all my heart, if i didnt like dogs i wouldnt have them, so dont you ever speak to me like that again or i will report you, oh and i dont plead with anyone...As a deserved recipient myself of different concerns of Mr. Snappy before, I believe she was totally motivated by concern for the Border Collie as a breed and for Border Collies as individuals when she expressed dismay at what appears *from your posts* to simply be another backyard breeding. Backyard breeding and puppy mill breeding of Border Collies is a concern over here. So are inadequate homes and dogs/pups dumped in shelters (and slated for euthanasia) when people haven't been able or willing to handle them properly or provide them with a suitable environment. So perceived irresponsible breeding is a concern for all of us and real sensitive point on these boards. You plan on "reporting her" if she "ever speaks to you like that again"? For what? For expressing her opinion which is likely the largely unposted opinion of a majority of active members of these boards, based on your original post and some of your comments since? ...i love my dogs with all my heart, if i didnt like dogs i wouldnt have them...We're all with you on this one. We love our dogs and that's why we have them. But "love" alone isn't a justification for breeding - the benefit and future of the breed as the pre-eminent stockdog in the world and the need for quality working dogs are justifications for breeding. Just my honest opinions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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