Hi folks :)

[Aerie]

Long time no see...again. My computer stays broken, so internet access is shakey at best. I think it might be fixed this time, though!

 

I hope everyone here is doing well.

 

Combat's hips are giving him trouble, but nothing that will require surgery - just supplements, at least for now. He's become terribly afraid of storms and I'm really not sure what triggered it. He used to be fine, then just before we moved here he started getting anxious. He settles nicely, though, and will sleep comfortably through the storm as long as I let him chill -on- my feet.

 

Recon is fine and fluffy and no longer quite so petite - the spay (yes, they're BOTH fixed now, yay!!) happened and she got wide. Not sure if that's because she's not -quite- as active as she was, or what, but there you have it.

 

Sage is a nerd, as always.

 

We're having some issues, though. Husband and I are going through a divorce. (let me just say here that some men are scum and not worth the effort it takes to wipe them off your boots) We're doing the typical "i want this, you get that" thing with the assets. He's being a complete jerk about it, though, and wants to count the DOGS and the horse as assets. Animals are not -things-. Ugh.

 

He wants the judge to force me to sell the dogs and the horse and "split the profit". Makes me just want to slap him.

 

Anyhow, that's the update on me. I'm going to try to be around more - I've missed being able to keep in touch.

[INU]

Hi Aerie,

I am so sorry to hear the news.

Is there anything we (the people on boards) can do? We can sign a petition or letter to the judge so he'd know how much you have done for the dogs and how much they mean to you.

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

Don't sell the dogs, whatever you do! Since you want to keep them, try to find out, via newspaper or ads somewhere, what the "fair market value" (shudder) is of the dogs and horse then give him half of that.

 

Of course, if he has not paid for the dogs themselves (adoption fees or purchase price, vet bills, food bills, obedience classes, etc.) then they do not belong to him in any sense and a lawyer should be able to make that clear. If there is any kind of adoption contract or anything that has just your name on it, you should also be able to point to that. Friends, family, etc. that could write letters in this favor might also be helpful. As would the very argument that an animal is a pet and under your care cannot be sold.

 

Also, if they were adopted, they might not be able to be sold depending on the contract--they might have to go back to rescue, where they could be rehomed with YOU as a single person.

 

This is just the worse kind of situation. I'm so sorry to hear you are going through it.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[Lunar]

Oh man, Aerie, I'm so sorry to hear of your divorce. And that he's being a jerk over the dogs. O.O Wow that bites. how can anyone consider dogs assets?? Generally you can't sell adult dogs anyways.... that's why they get dumped in rescue, they aren't "worth" anything in the traditional, asset sense. Gah.

 

Good to hear from you though.

[Aerie]

Both dogs were purchased from breeders, so there's no adoption contract to fall back on. I don't know what I'd do without them. Sage is safe - she was mine before the marriage.

 

I'm seriously stressing about Combat and Recon, though. I don't care about the car, the furniture, all that crap - it can be replaced. But the dogs aren't THINGS. I can't even believe he would lump them in that category. I suppose that goes to show you what sort of person he is.

 

INU - I'm not sure yet, really, but if it comes down to it...maybe so. I just don't understand why he's being this way. It just makes me crazy.

 

Allie - I won't sell them to anyone I don't know. If it gets crazy enough, I'll "give them away" to a friend, who will make certain they are safe, fed, and loved until I can get them back.

 

Natalie - He's just trying to make me miserable, and he knows exactly how to get me where it hurts. My dogs are my children. He's just plain mean.

 

The dogs are "worthless" in a monetary sense: Both are altered, so cannot produce puppies for any buyers. Both are over a year old, far from the puppy cuteness that lures people into paying oodles of dollars. And there is -no- market for Border Collies around here to begin with - if it isn't working on a dairy farm already, it isn't wanted/needed, and the farmers can just use another one of their pups instead of buying an outside dog.

 

I feel relatively safe in thinking I can just "rehome" them until all this is over. The friend lives close by, has secure fences, and they could live inside with her. I just hate to be separated from them.

 

The horse is going to be another matter. She's worth a rather decent amount of money just based on bloodlines - her sire is getting a lot of notice right now. The judge will see her in dollar signs, and not as a loved member of the family.

 

It just stresses me out thinking about possibly losing Combat, Recon, and Chips. I really, seriously, don't know what I'd do without them. They are literally as dear to me as a child would be, and it'd break my heart to have to see them go.

[Nik]

Hey Aerie, good to hear from ya again. I'm sorry to hear about your pending divorce...they can be rough alot of times. Hope things start looking up for ya real soon.

 

As far as the dogs go, I don't really know what kind of advice I can give, but I do offer my support and hope you get to keep them. I like the idea of "fair market value" and giving him half though.

 

Are you still in MS or did you go back to Oklahoma yet? How is your family coming along w/ the rebuilding and such?

[Aerie]

Hi Nicki Divorce sucks - but I'll be better off in the end. He's not a nice person.

 

The sad thing is, Combat really really really loves Michael (husband) and would very likely choose him over me any day - and Mike's the one wanting to "get rid of" him. Ugh. Michael doesn't understand loyalty.

 

I'm still in Mississippi. I won't be going back to Oklahoma. I'm living with my mom (oh dear), and we've been working pretty steadily so this place is almost "normal" again. My dad lives right on Hwy 90 and his place was swept off, so...he's still living in a FEMA trailer. I believe, though, that construction is beginning soon on his place and will be completed by November. I think. So it's looking good on this side.

 

How'd you guys do?

[KrisK]

Aerie, sorry to hear about your troubles. Been there, done that (sigh). As for the dogs, I don't know what the laws are where you live, so you might like to check that out. My 'ex' wanted 'joint' custody of the dog I told him to take a flying leap...she was mine and he had chosen to 'find someone new' so they could get their own dog!

Anyway, so much water under the bridge now!

If you are 'forced' into making the dogs and horse as 'assets', get a $$ value, and give him something of equal value instead - like oh, I don't know...a frying pan or two (insert evil grin here!) At least in Ontario, that's how the laws worked - if something couldn't be 'split', then the equivalent value was used.

If you need to 'bend a sympathetic ear'..feel free to pm.

It really does suck big time, no matter how you look at it!

[Cheri McDonald]

Aerie:

 

I agree with what was said above. If he is using $ signs just pay him 1/2 market value, how could the judge ask for more than that. Ex's are pigs.

 

Our thoughts are with you and we are here if you need to vent.

[Aerie]

I'll pay whatever I need to pay to keep them - if it comes to that. I'm hoping it won't, but I have money set aside to do it if need be.

 

How do I go about finding "fair market value" in this area? I thought about comparing it to breeders close by, but there are none except for the farmers and most of them around here give their dogs to other farmers and won't sell the public, so that was a flop. I've been watching the classifieds ads for Border Collie puppy ads, but there are none.

 

So...what would fair market value be?

Combat is over 2 years old, neutered, has phobias of thunderstorms, and digs holes the size of texas the instant you turn your back on him. He has other little quirks that would drive a typical person insane. Not for the average dog owner.

 

Recon is over one year old, spayed, and is what i'd call on the low end of medium drive. She's very easy to be around, very low key, very sweet, loves cuddles and would be a good "family" dog (loooves the kiddies!), but is still "typical border collie" in that she thrives on lots of interaction.

 

What a lot of people see as negatives about this:

1) Both are adults. No cute puppy factor to win over folks unless they are looking for an adult to begin with.

2) Both are registered with the ABCA, but both are fixed - no puppies for anyone looking to produce, which is what most people around here are looking for adults for.

3) They are very high maintenance and I can see Combat being destructive if not tended to properly and given the attention he needs - which I would tell to anyone coming to see him.

 

Keeping in mind, that I listed these as "negatives" only because that's the way a lot of people looking to buy dogs think. To me, my babies are priceless, whether or not Combat barks insanely at the ripples in the pond until you call him away.

 

So...what price would -you- put on these two? Because I have no idea.

[Nik]

Did you ask him what price he is thinking about? Just to kind of give you an idea of how much of a butthole he's going to be when it truly comes down to the money for the dogs.

[nancy in AZ]

Hi Aerie,

So sorry to hear about your family troubles. I guess when things get bad, they get pretty down and dirty, huh? I wouldn't think the dogs would be considered an asset by the court, per se being companion animals. I would think a bigger battle would be if you were both vying for custody of them. Since he is only interested in monetary value and not keeping them it would seem to work in your favor. As for your horse, you may want to see if there is a livestock appraiser in your area. That way you would have independent and qualified market value established for the animal. Glad to "see" you back on the boards, but sorry it's under such trying circumstances.

[Aerie]

Nicki - He won't talk to me. He's in Iraq so it's VERY easy for his cheating, dirty, no good, son of a gun self to avoid me. We spoke for about 10 minutes while he was on R&R this last week, which is the only way I know he wants to sell the dogs.

 

Nancy - I was thinking that, possibly, the judge will see that Michael is being a child about all this and wouldn't make the animals a big issue. I too, could understand it if he were asking to take the dogs himself. In fact, I expected him to ask for Combat. I would have gladly let him take him - the dog adores Mike.

 

The horse was appraised as a yearling and again at the beginning of her 2 year old year (this Jan) and...unfortunately...she's worth a bit of money.

 

However. I have never sent in the transfer papers on her, and her breeders are aware of the situation. So. Hopefully she's safe.

 

I dunno, I'm just feeling crazy.

 

Thanks for the welcome back, though, folks. It's nice to know there's people out there who understand how much it sucks to be facing this.

[Root Beer]

Could you get some sort of statement from a breeder (or two or three!) stating that the dogs have no monetary value from the points that you listed above? That might help.

[Nik]

Hmmm...I'm not a judge or lawyer or anything close to it, but it sounds like w/ him being in Iraq right now that would give you a better chance of keeping the dogs. As to the monetary value, if thats what he prefers, maybe the judge will come up w/ something reasonable so you can keep them.

 

I'm sorry that your going through this whole mess. Believe it or not, lots of marriages end up in divorce when the military is involved. Luckily my DH was only in reserves (he had already came back from Desert Storm just before we met) and never caused too many problems. Now if he had been on active duty...well that probably would have been a whole different story.

Not saying that all would turn out like this, but the military does put a major burden on marriages w/ the stress, absences, etc.

 

I truly wish you the best in getting your life back together. Just remember...we're here if you need us.

[Jo&Tex]

I came upon this thread late but I want to let you know that I've been down this road and I really feel for you.

I only took Tex the night I left and I left behind my beloved Bounce and my other dogs. My husband is mean as a snake and though I begged him to hand Bounce etc to a friend who managed the local shelter, he refused. I could have networked the dogs up north to me. Going back would have meant getting whacked - and thats never going to happen again...

Once the lawyers got involved, xDH claimed he was spending $100 a month for dog food. My response was "fine - gimme my dogs." My lawyer and his lawyer told him to grow up and stop trying to inflict emotional pain. I got alot of support from both lawyers who said that dogs have no real value and a judge would just see right through his attempt to cause distress. I still don't have Bounce and I haven't seen my children in over a year but I've learned a few things. This will pass and you will survive. I'm not the doormat I used to be but I'm still the nicest person I know. Keep your chin up. A year from now you'll be wondering why you didn't get out sooner.

[bc friend]

I'm a paralegal who works for a family law (divorce) lawyer. Every state has their own laws but in Texas fair market value (FMV) is determined by what someone who didn't have to buy the asset would pay for it. So basically for your dogs, fmv would be what someone who wanted to buy the dogs but didn't have to would be willing to pay if you advertised the dogs for sale in the condition they are currently in - altered, age, etc. To be applied against the FMV would be reimbursement for necessary food, vet care, training, etc. you have provided during the period of separation. I've never worked on a case where the parties didn't ultimately agree on who got the dog - although the dog was a major issue at mediation in one case! It's not uncommon for one party to use the dogs against the other party as emotional blackmail, particulary if there are no children involved. Hope this explanation helps - like I said I don't know the law in your state but ask your attorney.