AKC Open registration ending

[Rave]

What exactly does this mean?? That the stud books are closing?

 

Border Collies: Open Registration for the Border Collie will end on January 1, 2006. The AKC will accept dogs registered with the American Border Collie Association (ABC), the American International Border Collie (AIBC) and the North American Sheepdog Society (NASD).

[Eileen Stein]

Where did you see this, Laura?

 

The AKC is considering a proposal to this effect, but as far as I know they have not adopted it. According to the minutes of their July board meeting, it is to be voted on in August.

 

Although nominally it would close the studbook, the actual effect of it would be to keep the studbook open forever to our ABCA, AIBC and NASDS registered dogs that they have been accepting since 1995 under Open Registration. IOW, it's actually a way of keeping the studbooks open while claiming to be closing them.

 

The adoption of this proposal is a result that most of us dread.

[Rave]

On the AKC website in 2 separate places:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/border_collie/news.cfm

http://www.akc.org/reg/open_registration.cfm

My sport friends had been telling me this for a few weeks and I finally got around to looking on the AKC website.

[Valhalla]

Originally posted by Eileen Stein:

...it's actually a way of keeping the studbooks open while claiming to be closing them.

Eileen, I don't understand. If they "close" the studbooks, how can a dog still be registered?

 

Also on the AKC website it states:

"The American Kennel Club in conjunction with the Parent Club (also known as a national breed club) sets this time frame for the breed."

 

Is the ABCA the breed Parent Club? If so, I can not imagine the ABCA agreed with the AKC on anything, let alone setting a time frame for open registration.

[juliepoudrier]

Christine,

The AKC breed parent club is the Border Collie Society of America (BCSA).

 

And I'm guessing the "closing" the studbook means closing it to everything but AKC, ABC, AIBC, and NASDS-registered dogs, which as Eileen states, effectively leaves the studbook open to working-bred dogs.

 

J.

[ccnnc]

This is a reach, but here goes anyway....

 

Eileen, would it be practical/possible to file a suit against AKC enjoining (right word??) them from using the terms ABCA or American Border Collie Association in any of their communications.

 

The logic -- I guess -- is that since AKC's policies on the Border Collie breed are diametrically opposed to those of ABCA, AKC should not be allowed to use the ABCA name as an apparent endorsement of those policies.

 

Perhaps Colin's last stab at this....

 

Colin

[Valhalla]

That's a superb point Mr. Campbell!

[Rave]

Mr. Campbell

 

See Colin, some people respect their elders.

 

(and no I'm not one of them, but you've already figured that out)

[Eileen Stein]

Laura, the cites you gave are to the conditions of the current open registration, and are nothing new. Historically, when the AKC recognized a new breed, they did it because the breed club/registry applied for recognition, and so it would turn over its studbook to the AKC when recognition occurred. When the AKC recognized the border collie back in December 1994 and announced that they would begin registering border collies in 1995, they did it over the objections of all the border collie registries, so of course they had no studbook to work with. So they set up an Open Registration period, where anyone could register a border collie if they produced a registration certificate from the ABCA, AIBC or NASDS. This Open Registration period was to last for 3+ years, at which time the studbook would supposedly close. The policy was stated in the words you cite here, except that the closing date was December 31, 1998.

 

As that three-year period drew to a close, very few border collies had been registered (much to AKC's amazement), and they voted to extend the open registration period another three years. As that second period was due to expire, the parent club (BCSA) petitioned for a further extension, saying that the gene pool of AKC-registered border collies was too small to be viable. In response the AKC extended it for another five years (Excerpt from the AKC board minutes for Jan 2001: Following a motion by Ms. Scully, seconded by Mr. Goodman, it was VOTED (affirmative, Ms. Scully, Mr. Goodman, Mr. Merriam, Mrs. Strand, Dr. Hritzo, Mr. Kelly, Dr. Davies, Mr. Marden, Dr. Battaglia; opposed, Dr. Mays, Mr. Menaker; absent, Dr. Smith) to keep the stud book for Border Collies open through January 1, 2006. The Parent Club was to be advised that no further extension would be granted unless its efforts to increase registrations during this five-year period were successful.) Hence the notice you linked to.

 

The parent club has now submitted a request for either a further extension of the open registration period, or permanent open registration, or for the AKC to permanently accept registrations from the ABCA, AIBC and NASDS the way a couple of other breeds have an outside registry they permanently accept registrations from. (They favor the second option.) The third option would really be the same as the second, since the ABCA, AIBC and NASDS are the only registries that are accepted under open registration, but it would be a bit face-saving, since "open registration forever" kind of undercuts the closed-society, exclusivity notions that have always gone with "the sport of purebred dogs." The stumbling block to it has been that those cooperative registries in other breeds have always been just that -- cooperative. They liaise with the AKC, resolve any questions about dubious papers and pedigrees, etc. The border collie registries won't do that, and as a result the AKC hasn't wanted to keep accepting their dogs indefinitely. But within the next few months -- probably in August -- they will be deciding what they will do about the closing date and the BCSA's request. I erroneously jumped to the conclusion that you'd received inside information that they'd already made this decision. Whew!

[Rave]

OK, thanks for explaining. I thought it was a bit odd!

[SoloRiver]

I wonder how AKC types would feel if they knew that my ISDS-registered, ABCA-eligible imported bitch has a great-grandmother who was a working Beardie? If I registered Fly with AKC, which I could easily do, it would mean that I'd managed to infiltrate their studbook with a dog they'd consider a mutt.

[Valhalla]

Melanie, you're right! I wonder what they'd say about that? There are actually quite a few trialing Border Collies that have Beardie blood. And on the flip side, most working Beardies we see now I'd say are over half Border Collie. The Beardie Polly runs for Barb Starkey is 7/8 Border Collie, but he looks just like a Beardie.

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

No kidding Melanie, that's wild. I knew BCs were basically mutts but I didn't think there were crosses going on today.

 

I wonder how the Jack Russel people have managed to force AKC into using the Parson Russel name instead.

[ccnnc]

Maybe they were a bit more feisty!

 

CC

[laurie etc]

of course until AKC decides to dna test every litter, they could be registering a whole lotta mutts as "purebreds"...

 

like all those high volume multi-breed breeders over the years didn't ever have accidents...

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

WOW! I never knew! My mother in law has a beardie but Guiness is not biddable at all, he barks his fool head off all the time and you can't make this dog do anything he doesn't want to do because he will bite. I have to ace him just to shave him down! Of course my MIL has fostered this mindset as in "we can make vet appointments but if Guiness doesn't feel like getting in the car today then we have to cancel". If he were mine he'd learn that we go when I say so but I can't change my MIL.

[Deacon Dog]

...file a suit against AKC enjoining (right word??) them from using the terms ABCA or American Border Collie Association in any of their communications.

Better yet, would it be possible to seek an injunction against infringement of the Border Collie trademark? I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that trademark rights are grounded in commercial use, not registration, so it seems a class of working dog breeders under the auspices of the ABCA and/or USBCHA could make an viable argument that it has a protectable right, and the AKC's use of the mark for non-working bred dogs creates a likelihood of confusion, mistake and deception with the consuming public.

[Howdyjabo]

Or..... how about registering every mistaken breeding of Border Collies with AKC and drop the ABCA papers.

Flood them with mutts- and they might want to close the books

[ccnnc]

Tony, I agree that claiming the trademark would be an effective effort, but I wonder if the fact that ABCA took no such action ten years ago when the akc first took in the barbie collie, or at any time since, would weaken the chances that this could be successful today.

 

Again, I'm no lawyer, but I could see success and benefit in denying akc the implied endorsement of using ABCA as an "approved registry".

 

That's kinda like Pepsi running ads claiming that Coca Cola management prefers Pepsi.

 

Colin

[juliepoudrier]

Annette,

The working beardie doesn't look much like the AKC beardie (now, THERE'S a surprise, huh?) and probably doesn't act much like one either. (When I say working beardie I don't mean the "working beardies" that are part of the AKC program, but the dogs of old that you see listed in old UK trial programs where the dog is simply listed as bearded, but not implied as a separate breed).

 

I used to have a website bookmarked that had working beardies (someone here in the US who also had border collies and had imported a couple of working beardies from the UK if that rings a bell for anyone), but that was another computer and I can't find the site now. I think it's interesting that some of the early stuff you read on the history of the beardie mentions dogs with wiry coats, not the long coats you see in today's conformation-bred dogs.

 

Interestingly, "bearded" used to mean the dog had hair on its face, but if you check out beardie sites devoted to the KC dog, the beard refers to hair on the chin on down to the chest....

 

Makes you wonder if we even mean the same dog, though at one time, undoubtedly it was the same dog.

 

J.

[Rave]

There's got to be a way with the ISDS/Beardie/mixed breed angle to get under the AKC's skin.

[juliepoudrier]

I wonder what they would do with ROM'ed dogs, who may have very little pedigree information to go with them? Tee hee, let's get out there and ROM some mutts then register them with AKC!

 

J.

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

Very cool, thanks Julie!

 

Now I don't have to have that mental note of disgust every time a beardie is brought up in conversation. I can say, Oh BARBIE Beardie-yuck!

 

I'll look into the Jack and Parson split to see what happened there.

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

Well, I thought that one of the prerequesites of AKC accepting dogs from other registries was that you had to prove a dog purebred for so many generations. If we can show that ABCA registers BCs that are not necessarily PB as close up as grandparents then AKC may drop ABCA registered dogs.

[laurie etc]

Here's a quote from the application for AKC Open registration - if the person doing registration recognizes that a Beardie is in the 1st three generations of the pedigree, I bet it would be rejected.

-------------

"Attach an 8.5? by 11? photocopy of the original pedigree issued by the U.S. registry containing at least three generations of ancestry (with registration numbers for each dog), establishing that each dog in the three generations was of the same breed and registered with a registry whose pedigrees are acceptable to the AKC."

 

"If any of the dogs appearing in the ancestry are imported, the pedigree must include the Stud Book initials and the foreign registration number issued for the dog by the registry organization in the dog?s country of birth. A dog will be ineligible for AKC registration if the pedigree issued by the U.S. registry discloses that one

or more dogs were recorded with the registry on the basis of an affidavit."

-----------

 

Although I do know a few AKC Border Collies who have ROM dogs in their pedigree- One that was actually on the AKC Agility World Team. The ROM's are 4 generations back, but they almost caused her to be left off the team for lack of an acceptable pedigree for the International Agility Association.