AKC Open registration ending

[Eileen Stein]

Karen, YOU can reject it by simply not registering your dogs with the AKC.

 

Like the rest of you who've posted, I consider this development very disappointing and discouraging, and very detrimental to the future of our breed, although not really unexpected. Overall AKC registrations are down and their revenues are declining. I suppose they were not likely to close off any avenue that could produce more registrations just because of some theoretical commitment to the purebred dog.

 

Yesterday I received a letter from a BCSA bigwig, complaining about her dog being de-registered by the ABCA because he received his conformation championship, in which she trashes the ABCA in the usual fashion -- it doesn't really care about working ability, doesn't care about health, its breeders breed anything to anything, etc., etc. If they really believed that, seems to me they'd want to close off registration of dogs from such a trashy organization, and develop their own superior population using their own enlightened methods. But no -- when it comes right down to it, they know that their methods will not produce dogs as good as ours, so they feel a need to ensure that they can always replenish their supply from the registry they disparage. And by doing so they drag down the breed as a whole.

 

The longer we sit by while this downward spiral continues, the harder it is to stop it.

[Eileen Stein]

Kelpiegirl, you may already know this, but the reason the Canadian border collies are registered with the CBCA rather than the CKC is that there was a poll (conducted by the Ministry of Agriculture, I believe) of all border collie owners in Canada, and they chose the working registry. (By law, there can only be one registry for each breed of animal in Canada.) Canadian working kelpie folks might be well advised to consider initiating such a procedure before the number of KC kelpie owners gets any larger.

[Journey]

The longer we sit by while this downward spiral continues, the harder it is to stop it.

I agree. My question still stands though "how"? How do we stop something that we haven't been able to all this time? ABCA has made their stance as far as the show (KC registered)and Champions go. I am still leaning back to what I said years ago. Take away the papers, the pedigree to be exact. However, in doing so this would hurt every owner, not just those wanting to cross register. ABCA has a duty to all in being a "registry" isn't there a clause on new papers now (haven't had a new dog in quite some time) indicating the owner will not cross register with a breed standard based kennel club?

 

As for the BCSA "bigwig" I know of one instance and I would never call that person a "bigwig" not in the BCSA that is.

 

Karen

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

Sell all pups on non breeding registrations unless selling to a reputable breeder/handler who does the same. Make sure there are provisions for lifting that non breeding registration based on merit and/or make it possible for the breeder of the dog to lift the stipulation.

 

Deregister dual registered dogs! I do not know how we could find out if a dog were registered other than announced winnings and I know that some of the eventing dogs are ILPed. If there is a way to research this info but it involves too many man hours or something then I VOLUNTEER just give me ideas on where to look and I will provide ABCA with monthly reports. It's the least I can do outside of just paying my dues.

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

I guess that putting a stop to dual registered dogs will probably hurt the ABCA financially but maybe we need to talk about what the potential financial loss will be & how to offset it as best as possible.

[Katelynn & Gang]

I don't think it will effect the ABCA as financially as most think. Some breeders will drop AKC and stay with ABCA and those who don't we don't need or want anyway!

 

I'd be willing to pay more in membership and registration fees if none of the dogs in the registry could be dual registered. Anything to help my breed out.

 

But another idea would be that if ABC gets news that your dog/s are AKC dual registered the dogs go as NB or loss their registration (same as when CH) and none of their offspring can be registered as American Working Border Collies.

 

Katelynn

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'd say what has been done with the conformation champion shows the direction that can be taken successfully.

 

Of course it is up to those who care personally to refrain from registering in the AKC (even if it means not being as active in some cherished activity).

 

It's a good start. I'd also say support and spread the word about responsible breeders in the working context, and support non-AKC venues for activities.

[Eileen Stein]

>

 

Karen, you're a lifetime member of the BCSA, aren't you? The AKC parent club, the organization that campaigned so vigorously to keep the AKC open to registering ABCA dogs forever? I well remember your posts when the dual registration issue was discussed here in 2002. I really don't believe you are in agreement with me.

 

>

 

How could you possibly know who I got a letter from two days ago?

 

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but my stock of patience is pretty low right now.

[Journey]

How could you possibly know who I got a letter from two days ago?

I never said I did. I said I know of "one" case, so, if that is the same one, then that person I would not call a "bigwig". If there is more than one case then I have no idea. Maybe I should have spelled it out more clearly.

 

And yes, I am a lifetime member of ABCA - feel free to check with Patty Rogers.

 

Karen

[Eileen Stein]

I said: "Karen, you're a lifetime member of the BCSA, aren't you?"

 

You said: "yes, I am a lifetime member of ABCA - feel free to check with Patty Rogers."

 

I guess you misunderstood my question, somehow?

[Journey]

I guess you misunderstood my question, somehow

Yes, I misunderstood your question as much as you misunderstood mine when I asked "how" initially.

 

You seem to feel it necessary to turn this topic around on anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and fall in line. I find that to be an avoidance behavior. Since you are a "bigwig" in the ABCA is it par for the course that people must follow and not make up their own mind? I will not follow anyone blindly.

 

Now, if the conversation can somehow find it's way back to the topic of Border Collies great!

 

Karen

[Eileen Stein]

>

 

I assume you understand it now, and are simply unwilling to answer it?

 

>

 

No, what I objected to was the exact opposite -- your pretense of agreeing with me when you do not. I would prefer that you were straightforward enough to state your true allegiance and your true views.

[Denise Wall]

Karen,

 

Perhaps you can share with us your vision of the future of the border collie.

[Katelynn & Gang]

Karen,

 

I think we all would like to know the truth. Are you a lifetime BCSA member?

 

You seem very out spoken about the Border Collie when AKC is involved, for that is the only time you seem to post, but choose not to take a direct stand and teeter on the fence a lot.

 

If you cleared where you stood and why you stand there, I am sure most of us would get back to our Border Collie talk, knowing if or if not we had a nice little BCSA spy in the mix.

 

Katelynn

[DeltaBluez Tess]

>>>>> Since you are a "bigwig" in the ABCA is it par for the course that people must follow and not make up their own mind? I will not follow anyone blindly<<<<<<

 

Huh, Eileen, a bigwig???...well if so, then that is one bigwig that I will follow

 

Matter of fact, I like Eileen so much that one of my Tess/Pleat pups is named after her!!

 

As for "par for the course that people must follow and not make up their own mind".....

 

I had tons of discussion with Eileen.....and I most certainly have not followed her blindly!! I enjoy our conversations as they are about the *heart* of the Border Collie and our genuine love for these magnificent dogs!

 

I am proud to have Eileen as my friend!!

 

Diane

[Caroline]

I am not a member of the ABCA. I should be, but I haven't joined anything. I bought a hat, just didn't join yet. I see this as my opportunity to join, and try to influence the BOD to change their minds about the acceptance of dual registration now that akc has made a final position. I need to send my money in to ABCA. Please if you haven't joined, join, let them know what you think. This is a chance to rethink a position.

Caroline Chamblin

[Katelynn & Gang]

Thanks for joining the ABCA Caronline! Its time we all become united and stand up for what is right for our breed!

 

If you are not a ABCA member yet, become one today! Show your support for the registry and what it is doing for this awesome breed!

 

And just remember! We will beat AKC, one way or another. AKC does not have our breed, for we have the true working Border Collies in the United States of America. AKC only has "those" wanna be dogs that go under the same name without the same glory of having such a rich and fine working heritage behind them.

 

Katelynn

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Please join the ABCA and as well the USBCHA......I am a lifetime member of both....and if you believe in what they stand for, then join.

 

Diane

Shiro, Tess, Tait, Koko, Faye, Chrissy, Rio, Betsy, Raful, Neal and Mick

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

Can you join the handlers association without being a real "handler" yet? I mean without having entered a trial?

[Shoofly]

Annette -- yes. Here's the info from the membership form:

 

------------------------------------

 

There are three categories of membership in the USBCHA:

 

GENERAL MEMBERS are those who have run a dog (currently Open & Nursery classes are sanctioned) in any trial sanctioned by the USBCHA within two years. General Members have the right to vote by mail in ballot, and eligible to qualify for the National Finals and Nursery Finals. Annual dues for General Members is $25.00.

 

LIFE MEMBERS are those who are eligible for General Membership, and have paid a one-time fee of $250.00. Life Members have the right to vote by mail in ballot, and are eligible to qualify for the National Finals and Nursery Finals.

 

ASSOCIATE MEMBERS are those who, though not meeting the eligibility requirements for General Membership, are interested in being members of the Association and receiving information disseminated by it. Associate Members have no voting rights. The annual fee for Associate Members is $25.00.

 

----------

You can find the form at

http://www.usbcha.com/membership_application.htm

[Shoofly]

Oh, and for anyone wanting to join the ABCA, here is the link to the home page --

 

http://www.americanbordercollie.org/

[sarah ruckelshaus]

so, I am coming in on this late, but this conversation has only today been brought to my attention, sorry. Barb and I share James and Polly actually was training James for me and decided he was so good that he needed to qualify for the Nationals (which he has done and will be competing at the nursury's). Anyone who has met James knows he is the most sweet and handsome boy there is, but of course, I am a bit biased

 

James is indeed 7/8ths border collie. If anyone would like to see a partial copy of his pedigree, I have it, although the 5th generation is missing from my copy as I made it on a little scanner I have at work and Barb is away. I will happily post it just not sure how to do it in this venue.

 

James's mother Nell was imported by Barbara several years ago. Barb bought her from Aled Owen who was also Nell's breeder. Nell is the daughter of Ben who currently belongs to Barbara but at the time belonged to Lisa Davis (David Rees) who was 'into' beardies for a while, not sure if she is at this point, that was a few years back.

Anyway, Ben is the grandson of Turnbull's Blue which is where the 'fuzzy' gene comes from.

 

In James's litter, there were 6 pups. 2 are VERY beardie, 1 is semi beardie and two are very border looking, no one would know they have beardie littermates. I am not sure about the 6th pup as I have not seen her as an adult, but I do think she is a beardie type. The part that I find the most intriguing about the genetics is that all of the beardie types in the litter have the same body type, short and long in body, where the border types are all tall and long and lanky. It is very funny to see all of the pups together, if you did not know, you would never think they were related.

 

Anyhow, James is registered ABCA and will not be registered AKC. I am confident that with creative grooming we could make his coat look slick enough that in photos he would appear Border, but that is sort of moot since he will not be registered.

 

Knowing what I do know (not much) about the AKC, they would look at his pedigree, which shows nothing 'funny' and would look at photos and would allow him into the registry. I do know of a beardie who is very beardie looking who IS registered AKC and has competed in an AKC trial, where no one questioned and where a fellow competitor refferred to him as the 'wire coated variety' of border collie which is exactly what the AKC would do (IMO) if beardie types were regsitered and got into the registry.

 

I fully understand the want to prevent the AKC from allowing open registration. IMO the solution is to limit the sale of wonderful well bred working dogs to folks who are seriously interested in working the dogs as they were meant to be worked and to continue with the pulling of ABCA registries to dogs who have acheived their AKC titles.

 

I am not sure anyone here wants to hear this, but their are too many litters being bred and sold to the person with the correct ink on the check and with out spay/neuter contracts and I am sure many with out contracts at all. If you are breeding a nice working litter, you could certainly stipulate that the dog must be neutered and that the dog can not be AKC registered. When I have a litter (IF) I will be placing my pups with such a contract and will most likely have any dog not going into a herding home neutered before placement.

 

Sarah