Help please? Itchy dog.

[Chick-N-Picker]

I have a 4+ month old rough coat puppy and she has itched since I got her. At first I didn't pay it too much attention. I checked her for fleas and never found any. I started to notice as it seemed to get worse. She is always scratching, licking, or reaching back and doing that bite thing where they just barely nibble. Her stomach may be slight pink. Hard to tell. But all of her skin down under the fur is white as milk. So far she has not scratched/bit until sores or nothing. Oh she also seems to shed a fair amount at 4-5 months but no noticeable hair loss, except maybe parts of her back legs where the tendon runs. But to be honest I can't tell and ain't that always a little thinner?

My first thought was maybe a food allergy. I was feeding her chicken and rice formula kibble. I switched her food to salmon and pea no grain formula to rule out both chicken and grains. Long story short, I don't believe that is it. I've had her exclusively on salmon and pea for over a week now and seen virtually zero improvement. I know it can take a while but if it was chicken or grains would it not at least show signs of improving by now and at least not worsened?

So then I decided to try some claritan (non D). Didn't help. Tried benadryl. No help. That makes me think it may not be pollen and such because I read that benadryl, etc will only help with those type of allergies and not other types such as skin/food/fungus/bacteria itch.

I did pick her up some Vetinarian Formula Clinch Care Antiseptic and Antifungal spray. I actually sat down in the store and read probably 50 reviews and every single one of them was glowing. And it helped various things. I only sprayed her with that maybe 30 minutes ago so not really enough time to even judge it. 

First question, has anybody used that spray and did it help/cure your itch? Two, any other advice? I have never had a dog itchy like this. My last Border Collie virtually never itched and could eat anything under the sun. I miss that dog. He was such a good dog.

I am trying what I can that is the cheapest option as I don't have lots of money for vets right now. If you are going to ridicule me for that then that is fine but it is what it is. I am not saying I will never take her to a vet of necessary but I want to try what I can and get advice from other Border Collie people.

A few pictures.

[gcv-border]

Even though you have checked her for fleas, it is possible that with her heavy coat, you may have missed some. (I know I am not expert at checking for fleas. IMHO, the easiest thing to try first is to treat for fleas to be 100% certain that she is clear. Around here, the shelters use a Capstar oral medication. I do not know if it is available over-the-counter or if you have to get it from a vet. Check out what you can get at a local reputable pet store. Do NOT buy stuff from Walmart or a Grocery story (Sentry products - not good) since I have heard of too many adverse reactions from those products.

It will take longer than a week for a diet change to show effects if you are thinking about allergies.  More like a month.

Many people have had luck adding fish oil to their pets food to deal with itchy skin issues.

 

[Journey]

I've never tried the sprays, etc..had no need. I would recommend though that you try bathing her in one of the better oatmeal shampoos (TropiClean) is one I use and can't say enough about it. It could be a bit of stress, all things included, change of home, change of food, change of environment. A bath or two a week may help you both out and it wouldn't hurt (not saying she's dirty!!)  then stick to a food for a month at least. 

[Chick-N-Picker]

Hey thank you for the replies. She hates baths and she actually hates being sprayed with anything as well except just now I sprayed her again and she actually set fairly still and didn't try to get away.

 

I will pick up some oatmeal shampoo. I seen it last night beside the spray.

And will do with the diet. Didn't realize it would take a month to see any improvements, if that is the issue. Glad y'all told me that. I figured it should at least start to gradually improve so I was about to just start back feeding her the chicken and rice again, because she does like it better. But I will wait.

[beachdogz]

Mine was definitely allergies related to weather/seasons.  No problems until certain times of the year.  I gave Apequel which seemed to help, but was not full-proof and was really expensive.  Came on here and was advised to try fish oil.  I literally got results within days - I could not believe how fast.  I have cut him back to once a day since allergy season was over.  A lot cheaper than Apequel and I actually got better results!   Love, love, love those photos! 

[Chick-N-Picker]

Oh, I meant to add that I treated her for worms too incase it was caused by that. Here is one more of her at 6 to 8 weeks.

And another from yesterday.

[Journey]

she's adorable 

[D'Elle]

She is adorable!

You have gotten good advise. I would recommend avoiding the aprays because she might be reactive to them.

The one thing I would add is to think about stress, which I know has been mentioned, but not in detail. Does she exhibit any other possible stress signs, like licking her paws, spinning in circles, barking excessively or at nothing you can perceive, etc? If so, she may be scratching due to stress, and/or the itching is also causing her stress. Do whatever you can, in addition to the baths, to alleviate any stress she may be feeling by providing her with the most calm and relaxing environment you can. If there are children in your home, have them leave her alone and the same goes for any other animals in your home.  Make sure she gets enough exercise, but don't overdo it. And always treat her with calm gentleness. That may help a lot, even if the actual cause is allergies.

 

Make sure the baths include thorough brushing, because another possible cause of itching is that she could be growing out a new kind of coat for her adult fur and shedding her puppy fur, and you want to make sure there are no mats.

And I recommend saving up starting now so you can get her to a vet in case these things don't resolve it. If the problem resolves without veterinary intervention, keep the money saved because there will be a next time, and if it is an emergency you will want to be able to get her the medical attention she needs. Best of luck, and let us know how it goes! She's very cute.

[beachdogz]

I'm curious as to where you live.  I live in Western PA, and allergies to pollen and mold can be brutal here - for people and dogs. 

[urge to herd]

^^^^ What Journey said!

About the itchies, I went through the same thing w/my dear and quirky Shoshone. Tried every single protein available, every herbal supplement, every damn thing and nothing worked. I fed her organically 'grown' chicken. Nada. This was over a few months. Finally gave up and my vet put her on prednisone, (I think, could have been another steroid, this was many years ago). She stopped itching within a week or so. There might be better stuff available then there was before. The prednisone was inexpensive and my vet sent the prescriptions to a local Costco, so it was even more inexpensive.

I know long term steroid use can have some unpleasant side effects. Never had a one with Shonie. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

 

 

[Chick-N-Picker]

2 hours ago, urge to herd said:

^^^^ What Journey said!

About the itchies, I went through the same thing w/my dear and quirky Shoshone. Tried every single protein available, every herbal supplement, every damn thing and nothing worked. I fed her organically 'grown' chicken. Nada. This was over a few months. Finally gave up and my vet put her on prednisone, (I think, could have been another steroid, this was many years ago). She stopped itching within a week or so. There might be better stuff available then there was before. The prednisone was inexpensive and my vet sent the prescriptions to a local Costco, so it was even more inexpensive.

I know long term steroid use can have some unpleasant side effects. Never had a one with Shonie. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

 

 

Dang. I just never expected this. Like I said, my last Borde Collie virtually never itched and could eat anything.

So you had to continually give the medication? If you stopped the itch came back?

[urge to herd]

Yes, she was on the prednisone, or whatever it was, for the rest of her life. As I mentioned, she outlived the other 2. My other 2 bc  never had any allergy issues at all and they did eat anything! 

Hope this is helpful.

Ruth

 

[urge to herd]

21 hours ago, Chick-N-Picker said:

Dang. I just never expected this. Like I said, my last Borde Collie virtually never itched and could eat anything.

So you had to continually give the medication? If you stopped the itch came back?

If this is an allergy it can be managed but will NOT go away. If it's seasonal, like pollen drifting around in autumn, then your dog will stop itching after the pollen stops. If the environmental cause is not seasonal but all year around, you'll be giving a pill every day, it's simple & quick.  And the itching might not have anything to do with what she's eating.  Just because your previous BC never itched doesn't mean ALL border collies won't itch. Dogs are individuals and sometimes have individual medical needs. 

Just re-read  your post and checking in with your vet is a good idea. First, because you need a prescription for the prednisone. Second, because your vet might have some remedies that you haven't tried yet AND your vet might have prescription strength versions of the over-the-counter things you've already tried. I understand about financial issues BUT if your girl is continuing to itch intensely she could get an infection. You have tried everything you can and now you NEED to see a vet. Please let us know how you and your girl get on.

Ruth

[Chick-N-Picker]

10 hours ago, urge to herd said:

If this is an allergy it can be managed but will NOT go away. If it's seasonal, like pollen drifting around in autumn, then your dog will stop itching after the pollen stops. If the environmental cause is not seasonal but all year around, you'll be giving a pill every day, it's simple & quick.  And the itching might not have anything to do with what she's eating.  Just because your previous BC never itched doesn't mean ALL border collies won't itch. Dogs are individuals and sometimes have individual medical needs. 

Just re-read  your post and checking in with your vet is a good idea. First, because you need a prescription for the prednisone. Second, because your vet might have some remedies that you haven't tried yet AND your vet might have prescription strength versions of the over-the-counter things you've already tried. I understand about financial issues BUT if your girl is continuing to itch intensely she could get an infection. You have tried everything you can and now you NEED to see a vet. Please let us know how you and your girl get on.

Ruth

Oh, I know that just because my previous Border Collie never itched doesn't mean none will. I was just throwing that out there about him. He was just a good ol dog.

And yeah, if this doesn't go away within a reasonable amount of time (change of season) or with the things I am trying then I will take her to a vet. I only changed her food 1.5 weeks ago. I am reading and being told it can take 1 month  to see improvements. If it gets much worse quickly, I'll figure out some way to get her to a vet.

That's why I am checking her closely. I check her skin a few times a day to see if it is getting red or any cuts beneath the fur. So far it's still white as milk and no cuts.

Thank you for the help.

 

 

[urge to herd]

border collies are AWESOME dogs! In total agreement with you. You've got a good plan going, please let us know how it goes.

Ruth

[Chick-N-Picker]

Ok. I'm back with a question. As others have mentioned to go ahead and treat for fleas because 1) It's good to. And 2)Just because you don't see any fleas or many fleas does not mean they are not there.

Well, I've been reading a lot about flea allergies in dogs and it said despite common belief most fleas actually do not live on a dog but for a few minutes to a few hours, barring an infestation. It said they feed and usually hop back off or get knocked by the dog. It also said that a SINGLE flea bite can cause itching for up to two weeks. That means technically only 4 fleas would have had to bite my dog as I've had her 2 months today. I did find one flea on her last week. Only one and it's the only one I've ever seen and I check her alot. But as established not seeing them doesn't matter with an allergy. I'll be honest I bought flea shampoo when I first got her and just sort of always thought if I don't see fleas they are ok. Apparently not with flea allergies, with only one bite being enough.

I said all that to simply ask, what flea treatment y'all would recommend? I know with some the flea has to bite for it to kill them. That seems like it would be of little use if a flea allergy is present. I know other kinds kill on contact. Thank you for any suggestions.

 

Edit I was just reading about various treatments and came across a treatment called Comfortis which is just Spinosad. I use Spinosad on the corn I grow to keep out corn worms. It is an organic substance. I have it sitting 10 feet from me. It is apparently very effect for fleas. I can make gallons of it for cheap. But of course that will be a spray. Not sure how long that would work in comparison to the expensive chew that lasts a month. Just found that interesting.

[gcv-border]

First, I would NOT recommend using an insecticide formulation meant for crops on your dog. It is too easy to apply an incorrect dose, and then your dog might suffer - side effects or even - death. Don’t save a few pennies with this treatment. It’s not worth the risk.

There are so many flea treatments (or even flea and tick treatments) available that I believe are pretty comparable. Since I use a monthly spot-on as flea and tick preventive (K9 Advantix II), I don’t have personal experience  with flea only treatments. As I stated in my previous post last week, most rescues in my area use Capstar tabs for rapid flea kill. Capstar is readily available through Chewy.

 I am sure you will get other suggestions.

[Chick-N-Picker]

1 hour ago, gcv-border said:

First, I would NOT recommend using an insecticide formulation meant for crops on your dog. It is too easy to apply an incorrect dose, and then your dog might suffer - side effects or even - death. Don’t save a few pennies with this treatment. It’s not worth the risk.

There are so many flea treatments (or even flea and tick treatments) available that I believe are pretty comparable. Since I use a monthly spot-on as flea and tick preventive (K9 Advantix II), I don’t have personal experience  with flea only treatments. As I stated in my previous post last week, most rescues in my area use Capstar tabs for rapid flea kill. Capstar is readily available through Chewy.

 I am sure you will get other suggestions.

Yeah, sorry I re-read your Capstar suggestion after posting. I looked it up and it said it only works for 2 days and quickly leaves the system. Not sure how effective that would be for my situation.

And I wasn't going to spray her with Spinosad. I just found it interesting I have it 10 feet from me and then stumbled on to it as a flea treatment in a chew. But I appreciate you recommending not to, just in case I was.

[Chick-N-Picker]

Hey, I just searched my dog again with my flashlight like I've been doing and guess what?

I found a demon flea.

Flea treatment incoming as soon as I can get the stuff.

I actually have some Hartz ulteaguard stuff on hand but NO way am I giving that after the horror stories I read.

[gcv-border]

10 hours ago, Chick-N-Picker said:

 

Yeah, sorry I re-read your Capstar suggestion after posting. I looked it up and it said it only works for 2 days and quickly leaves the system. Not sure how effective that would be for my situation.

Yes, Capstar is for those cases (as in rescue dogs) that come in covered in fleas, and something has to be done FAST.  It has been reported to give almost immediate relief. If you believe your dog is allergic to fleas, then you probably won't see immediate relief because the the dog will still itch for a while after the flea bite. The monthly flea, or preferably flea and tick, treatment should keep the fleas controlled.