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Briar had 3 seizures


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Well our Briar had three seizures yesterday. So I am off to the vet to pick up the meds. The morning one was the first since April but after two more in the same day Dr. says we need to get her some relief. My poor little girl. It is so awful to watch. I just want my happy little rocket back!

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Sorry to hear about Briar's seizures. We have one BC who is on pheno to control his seizures. (We put him on medication after he had 6 in one day; before that he had less than one in a month.)

His first dose (low dose) was too high, he actually fell out of his crate and fell down trying to walk on the kitchen floor; we lowered the dose (with vet approval) and he is still able to successfully compete in all venues of agility. He also was treated for an immune system problem as a young dog, which I'm sure was related to the seizures.

Barb S

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Sorry to hear about Briar. I have an Amish-bred border collie---Dolly the border collie---who is 10 1/2 yrs. old and has been cluster seizuring since she was 9 months old.

 

The best advice I can give anyone is to keep a journal---dates, times, missed meds, unusual circumstances around the time of seizures----storms, excessive exercise, etc. I must say that in Dolly's case, there is no rhyme or reason to her seizures. We started out with varying doses of phenobarb. Different dosages had no effect on her seizures, although the phenobarb helped some. A couple of years in a row her seizures went totally out of whack where she had to be put on IV's to keep her under---she just wouldn't stop seizuring. It was then that we put her on potassium bromide, which helped her immensely. I was able to wean her off the phenobarb and she has been solely on potassium bromide for the last few years. She still cluster seizures, but with the potassium bromide, they have been anywhere from 2 months to 5 months apart, rather than every 3 weeks when she was on phenobarb.

 

There's no one size fits all treatment for idiopathic epilepsy & no book of rules. What worked for Dolly might not work for anyone else.

 

After 10 yrs. of living with an epileptic dog, seizures are still difficult to see her through, but they can live long & quality lives. Dolly can't herd worth a cr--p, but she is one of the best therapy dogs I've had. She's on this earth & came to me for a reason & I've learned so much from her.

 

Just know that you & Briar are not alone---although it might seem like it 2:00 in the morning when you're sitting on the kitchen floor with a seizuring dog.

 

Vicki

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Gave her the first dose of med. She hasn't had anymore today. She is a bit tired right now and is sacked out on the floor, but then none of us got alot of sleep last night. Thanks Vicki, I have taken your advise and started a journal. We will record her daily mood and reaction. After the first one in April I did do lot of reading and asked the vet if we should put her on PB instead of Pheno, but she really wanted to start her on Pheno first. What do you think? She also said it is a very low dose. Briar is all of 35 lbs and is usually going a thousand miles an hour. Vet said there is no need to restrict her activity and Briar played ball alot this afternoon. Just want to do what is best for our girl! Thanks for the kind words and support.

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I think phenobarb is the first line of attack for epilepsy & most epileptic dogs do well on it. It's just that for Dolly, it wasn't good enough & potassium bromide is better. They need their levels checked about 2x a year to make sure the dose they are getting continues to be therapeutic.

 

Let Briar bust loose. Let her be Briar.

 

In your journal, a pattern should become evident. Does she have seizures every 4 weeks, every 6 or 8? Are there enough references to any one thing, such as playing really hard, maybe even a full moon, to possibly make a connection. If that's the case, then once you have a general idea of Briar's seizure cycles, then you might want to avoid that particular activity when you know she's due for another round. Make sense?

 

If I were to have another epileptic dog, I would start with a lower doses of phenobarb & play around with the dosages until we happen to hit the right amount for that particular dog.

 

At one point, Dolly was on about 400 mg. a day. Had no more effect on her than when she was on 60. Even at those extremely high doses, she was not groggy, & her seizure episodes were still spaced 3 wks.--like clockwork. I switched vets eventually & I'm happy with the results of what we're currently doing.

 

Chances are, Briar's journal will look nothing like Dolly's.

 

I recently read somewhere of a diet that might help in the control of human epilepsy. If I find the info., bring it here---unless someone else reading this has it on hand.

 

Vicki

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Well today is day four on the meds. First night she slept really deep and I kept checking to make sure she was still breathing, she was so zonked out. Saturday we did our regular long long walk, they don't let me out of the bedroom on the weekends unless I am dressed and ready to go run around in the hills. Briar was bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready to go! We came home fed them and gave her the Pheno. Within forty five minutes she was acting kind of out of it. Her ears flatten down and she hangs her head. I let her rest for an hour and then got out her ball. Ears go up and head comes up and she has a blast. Sunday seemed alittle better. Not as grogy but it seems after forty five minutes she is kinda drunk, walks into things for about an hour then she seems okay. Is that normal? She is on 100mg a day. 50 in the morning and 50 at night. Rob knows something is up and won't leave her side for very long. I think she is getting tired of being shadowed by him and kissed on all the time. Poor Rob!

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I also have an epileptic border collie, we have been working with her meds for about 5 months now and have had to put Annie on potasuim bromide in addition to her pheno. She had grand mal cluster seizures about every two week but since we put her on the kbr it has been six weeks and no seizures. We also have a supply of Valum so if she goes into clusters again we can hopefully stop them before they get to bad. The dogs do eventually get use to the medication , Annie has hind end weekness from the kbr and tires easier in the heat (not necessarly and bad thing with a border collie) But other that that she is slowly getting back to herself. Annie is only 18 months old but we are hopeing with the correct medication she can live a long and happy life

 

Roberta

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Hi,

I am very sorry about your dogs suffering seizures.

But I have to ask-

Some time ago, I posted about seizures and deafness in BCs and all I got was "It's only a problem in "show-bred" dogs.

Doing a 30 day search, brought up three threads about BCs with seizures (multiple dogs on each) and four on deaf BCs.

Surely it is apparent that these are two SERIOUS health problems in the breed, and since the MAJORITY of BCs are ABCA bred dogs, this is where the problem is mostly manifesting.

I consider both of these health issues of much greater importance than CEA, since both of these badly affect the dogs AND their owners.

I was hoping that perhaps breeders were now becoming more aware and disturbed by these two conditons.

Bonnie

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Hi-

 

I am sorry to hear about Briar. It is very difficult to watch your dog going through a seizure. I lost a dog once while he was in a grand mal seizure and it was heart breaking.

 

There is a study going on for canine epilepsy. They are collecting blood samples on dogs that have had seizures along with any related dogs. Here is their web site http://www.canine-epilepsy.net or you can try http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/cerc.html

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Bonnie,

 

I read the boards with attention, and nothing that has been posted changes my impression (and it can be no more than an impression, on your side or on mine, since there is no concrete data) that hereditary deafness and hereditary epilepsy are relatively infrequent problems in working-bred border collies. Both deafness and seizures can result from other than genetic causes, as I'm sure you know.

 

>

 

Both problems are huge if you happen to have a dog who is severely affected (I can say this with feeling, since I've just been taking care of a friend's deaf Dalmatian for the last 10 days), but CEA is also huge if your dog's vision is seriously impaired by it. Most dogs with CEA do not have vision that is problematic in their daily lives, true, but neither is unilateral deafness, or occasional seizures, much of a problem in daily life.

 

Moreover, the severity of the problem in an individual case says nothing about how prevalent it is. I simply don't see or hear of genetic deafness in well-bred border collies, except as a very, very rare occurrence. I do have a well-bred border collie who has had two or three minor seizures in her long life (she's 12 now), and I know of one other, and have heard of a few more. As between the two conditions, my impression is that epilepsy may be more of a concern, but of course there is no test for hereditary epilepsy.

 

So -- while I wouldn't say that these conditions don't exist in our breed, I'm not surprised that working breeders are not in a state of alarm over them.

 

Cheri and others, please understand that I'm totally sympathetic to the sadness your dog's epilepsy has caused. I wish no dog had to suffer from any disease or disability, but that is not a realistic expectation in this life.

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We have one BC who began seizuring at the age of 4 1/2. He also had an infection and was on antibiotics when he was still at his (backyard) breeders; when he was about 1 year old he developed an immune system problem and spent 5 days in intensive care at the Vet Clinic at Michigan State. I have no idea what caused the original problem, the vet said it was common in puppies. His immune problem started within 10 days of a Bordatella vaccination. His seizures started within 10 days of a giardia vaccination. We also have his full brother (different litter) who had the same vaccines at the same time with no reaction. I don't know if there is a relationship between the vaccinations and the health issues, but we no longer vaccinate them for anything but Rabies (required by law). BTW there are no show lines in his background.

Barb S

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Guest totallyterry2003

Bonnie,

 

One of the reasons that you may think that there are more dogs with seizures or deafness proportionately in the breed is that owner's of dogs do who do not have seizures or deafness would not write for help for a problem that they do not have. (The silent majority)

 

When you read the health section on the boards, the posters have health problems. People don't post to say that I have a perfectly healthy dog.

 

I only know of a couple of actual trialing dogs that had seizures. When you speak of working dogs, my interpretation is dogs that work livestock. There is a vast difference between the "advertised working lines" and the actual working parents. A dog does not have to work livestock to be ABCA registered.

 

To all of the owner's of seizuring dogs, I am not trying to diminish your problems and my heart goes but to you but it upsets me when certain people want to make mountains out of molehills...especially in the working dogs.

 

Anytime that you buy a pup even from a reputable breeder, there are risks involved. Obtaining a rescue dog will increase your risks of health problems. Obtaining a pup from a back yard breeder will increase increase your risks.

 

Life has no guarantees.

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With my Dolly dog, the fact thst she is bred by Amish says it all, including the fact that I went against my own advice & fell for this pup---but she's taught me so much (even though she was by far the most expensive dog I've ever had, due to vet bills).

 

On the other hand, I have 11 other border collies, different bloodlines, have all been low maintenance---just routine health check ups. None are related to Dolly.

 

To say that the preponderance of epileptic border collies are working, ABC reg. dogs as opposed to show lines is unfair. Just by virtue that ABCA registers the most border collies in this country, you're going to get a higher number of affected dogs, than with the AKC. They just recently got on the bandwagon. If that sort of logic is used, then we can go a step farther and say, that as far as canine epilesy goes, AKC by far has the preponderance of purebred epileptic dogs as opposed to "lesser" all-breed registries.

 

I think it's important to recognize that epilepsy is a health problem that exists & shouldn't be ignored. On the other hand, I don't think it's that prevalent of a problem to put other health issues on a back burner.

 

After 10 yrs. of living with a seizuring dog, one just doesn't get used to it. I cannot tell you how many times I cussed out the rubes who bred her. But my experience with Dolly has not/won't stop me from buying another border collie from working lines---it hasn't---I have 11 others. But I did make a notation of the dogs behind Dolly & would research very thoroughly, any related dogs, if I were considering another. I am paranoid enough because of Dolly, I would not knowingly buy a dog if I were aware of any sort of seizure disorder in it's background.

 

Canine epilepsy has been sort of like the crazy relative that families hid from the rest of the world. No one ever talked about it.

 

That's why Dolly has always been presented as my epileptic dog---what not to do when looking for a border collie. Dolly will leave a legacy.

 

Vicki

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Well Bri's been on the meds for one week and everyday she seems to be adjusting better. We go in for testing of her Pheno levels on Saturday. We had a great weekend and spent most of the day Sunday in the park herding the seagulls, playing ball and lazying the the shade. They both love Sundays, it's their special day.

 

Thanks for all the encouraging words and advise. I'll keep you posted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our 8 month old bc had a seizure tonight. couldn't walk, excessive salivation and whining. Took him to the vet, where he is now. She thinks he may be hypoglycemic. as everyone knows, with bc's they are super active. i tried to get him to eat before this all started but he didnt want to and seemed fine. was running around chasing the cats as usual. He was alert when we got him to the vet so i see that as a good sign but was still whining alot. it really freaked me out. i am fairly new to these boards and i wanted to share this experience(buddy is our first bc) why is it...they drive you nuts sometimes but when they're not around you wish they were there to drive you nuts some more? i will call the vet in the am and get his results...so much for sleep tonight.......

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Today was Shi's second seizure, I am taking him to the vet this afternoon and am seeing that epilepsy seem to be very common in border collies. For thos of you with a dog that has epilepsy is the medication very expensive? Shi's first seizure was terrible and lasted for almost a minute, the seizure he had today seemed to be much shorter but still bad enough.

 

Sarah

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We pay about $6.36 for 60 1 and 1/2 grain phenobarbitol tablets; Blaze has 1/2 tablet in the morning and 1/2 tablet at night. We try to keep him on a 12 hour interval (5 AM & 5 PM) even on weekends. He has been seizure free for over 2 years, but I haven't tried to wean him from the pheno. He is now 9 years old and still successfully competes in agility.

Barb S

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Phenobarb is the least expensive of medications, but as luck would have it, it didn't do anything for us. My Dolly is now on 300 mg. 2x a day, KBR, potassium bromide. For a while, she was on both, but I weaned her off the phenobarb. 60 capsules cost me about 25.00 a month.

 

You just have to see which works best for your dog.

 

 

Vicki

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