nipping at other dogs

[kristen]

my bc nips at our older dogs face and i don't know how to make her stop. any suggestions? :confused:

[Miztiki]

Is your BC playing, or fighting? If playing, does the other dog seem to mind? If not, then don't worry, they are just playing.

 

Is your BC a pup or an adult? All pups bite/nip, and an older dog will usually tolerate the antics of a pup but put them in their place if they go too far, so usually it's best to leave them alone and let the older dog teach the pup some doggy manners.

 

You will have to give more detail than "BC nips at my dog" if you want some helpful advice though.

[laurenngl]

My BC is 10 wks old and she constantly nips and tries to herd and or play with Snowy, my 16 yr. old maltese mix. Snowy is very patient and good natured but however I dont want Magic to do this all the time, how do I get her to stop?

[Tassie]

A couple of thoughts. Is Snowy being really bothered by the behavior - and is Snowy capable of dealing with it. If Snowy's not really seeming too bothered, and is capable of dealing with it, then let the dogs sort it out - just watch that it doesn't go badly.

 

(You probably don't want to know that my trainer's 7 year old sheepdog still pesters her 16 year old - gets in front of him and licks his lips and tries to entice him to play - the old boy puts us with it for a while, and then growls and/or tries to chase the 'pup' away - and so it goes.)

 

The second thought is that you can distract the pup, with a game and/or a little bit of training.

 

The crate or x-pen is also useful to give Snowy a bit of peace and quiet and non-pup time.

[Powder Puff]

Ive got the same problem, my border is now 16 months and if i go to talk to another dog (could be one she is good mates with) she will run over and nip the dogs face and then get real close to me, i know this is a jealous thing but should i be stopping it? I plan to get another dog next year so maybe i should be getting control of it now? not sure any ideas?

[Tassie]

Hey Powder Puff. I would be taking steps to stop this now. This seems more like resource guarding behavior rather than just puppy being a pain.

 

The important thing for you to have in your mind is that as leader of the pack, YOU get to make the decisions about who you talk to and who you don't - it's not for the dog to make those decisions. I would be giving a gruff verbal correction, followed by an instruction to her to do something like 'sit' for which she can be rewarded.

 

I would put her on leash - and maybe ask the other owner to help you by having the dog on leash. Then you can hold your dog away while you pet the other dog - then immediately pet your dog. Another thing I really like to do is to teach my dogs and their friends to 'line-up' - which means to sit nicely in a group and take treats one at a time. You can start this on leash, and then gradually change to off leash.

[Powder Puff]

Yeah, i do stop her ever now and then with a growl but i wasnt sure if i should so i never got on top of it, but i see what you mean about i should be the one making the decisions about who i can talk to and who i dont, makes sense. When you say have the dogs line up do you go along the line and give the treats??

[sea4th]

Hey, Kristen,

 

Welcome. Kristen has a rescue BC. The dog is a little over a year old. I suggested she post here. It's not playing. It sounds the like the BC is being a brat, plain and simple. She is also jockeying for alpha bitch. She is in good, knowledgable hands, albeit, first time BC owners.

[Piper]

Hi Kristen,

Piper did that as a puppy, but not too much, but enough for the older dog to say "that's enough". However, that is how Piper gets other dogs to play with her, she nips at their back legs and shoves her butt in their face. I usually just let it go. When she was a puppy and I could sense that the older dog was getting annoyed I would usually distract her with something else.

 

Another fun thingto watch for is your pup licking the other/older dogs mouth, that is her way of saying you have my respect, I'm not worthy, I want to learn from you. Once I learned what that behavior was I always thought is was cool when I saw puppies doing it.

 

Ditto-on what Vicki posted above, it does sounds like she is just being a typical BC bratty puppy and they usually grow out of it because the older dogs teach them that it isn't appropriate to do. Doggie socialization will help with that.

 

Of course I'm not an expert by any means, just sharing my insight. Good luck and have fun, they do grow out of this phase.

[Miztiki]

Originally posted by Piper:

Another fun thing to watch for is your pup licking the other/older dogs mouth, that is her way of saying you have my respect, I'm not worthy, I want to learn from you.

Does this behavior always mean that? If it does, that would be hopeful.

 

Lucy is still seperated from Boyden at all times. She's much better towards him in the house for some reason. I can put her on the leash and walk her right past him on the way to the door without her going after him or otherwise being really snarky. (Of course I keep her very close to me and watch her body language.)

 

Anyway, yesterday I had her on the leash and we were on our way to the door with Boyden in front of us and slightly off to the side. She was relaxed and showed normal curiosity towards him (which I encourage) so I let her investigate him. She sniffed his face and licked his lips. BREAKTHROUGH! This lasted all of 1.5 seconds, but it's major progress for her. I got to the door and began to turn the knob when she turned her head around to growl at him. *sigh*

 

So, what do you think her licking his lips meant?

[Piper]

I'll let someone else answer that one, but I was told usually that when a puppy licks an older dogs mouth that they (the puppy) is showing respect. Who really knows...

[Tassie]

Powder Puff - my 'line-up' just has the dogs sitting in front of me or a friend, (not in a formal stay) and just waiting patiently for the treats. The dogs get to choose who sits next to whom - that depends on their level of comfort. My little bitch tends to sit off to the side of the person. It's just a bit of fun - but it's quite a useful command to get a group of dogs paying attention when they're playing off-leash together, and you don't want to use the formal recall.

[laurie etc]

Miztiki - That sounds like progress to me, too. My more subordinant dogs like to "kiss" the dogs in their pack if they have been separated (and others they are aquainted with) who are alpha to them. I read it as a sign of greeting and respect, and acknowledgement that they are accepted.

I have never seen an alpha go up to a subordinant dog and offer it, although they will sometimes reciprocate. It is innitiated by the subordinant dog. Young puppies do it incessantly, (but then that's how they get other pack members and mom to regurgitate food for them in the wild). As they grow up, the puppy behavior lessens to a "quick lick" ("hi - love ya"), and puppies that persist in the "crazy chin/mouth licking" usually get told off at an age when the adults decide "Enough is enough" - GROW UP ALREADY!"

The fact tht Lucy through in a growl afterwards may mean that she is still conflicted about her role, but I do think progress is there. What was Boyden's response to the whole thing?

[laurie etc]

In answer to the other question about nipping - You need to look at how the "nipper" is approaching the other dog. If she is coming in with licks and little "love nips" from under the other dogs chin, and her ears are back, she is acting submissive. It is a sign that she feels subordinate, and is still exhibiting puppy behavior toward the other dog. This can get annoying to another dog, too, so if she persists, I would call her back after a few seconds and ask her to sit, or do another behavior for you. In my own household, I let the adult dogs teach a pup when "Enough" is. But with strange dogs, I wouldn't take the chance on them having proper social skills with a puppy, some will "over correct" and go after the pup in a display of inapropriate dominance.

If the pup is nipping at the sides of the face, or curling her lips - she is saying "back off". Possibly dominance, but maybe out of fear, too. Read the rest of her body language. If she is approaching with rigid forward ears, tail elevated, hackled up, then she is showing dominance. If she has ears laid back, crouching, with her tail low, she is saying "back off, I'm worried about you".

At any rate, I would not let a pup harrass a smaller adult dog for too long, without redirecting the behavior, or a time out for the pup. As the pup grows, she needs to learn her boundaries, and a small dog in the household who "puts up with it" too much may get abused in the future and needs your assistance. If you think the BC pup is exhibiting dominance, and you want the small dog to remain higher on the ladder than the BC pup, you should step in and make it clear that you don't approve of that behavior (use a redirection or a time out) or you could even pick up the little dog to physically elevate her over the puppy, and pet her, showing that you feel she is alpha over the pup.

[sea4th]

you could even pick up the little dog to physically elevate her over the puppy, and pet her, showing that you feel she is alpha over the pup.

Don't think that is too possible. The older dog is a dobe. The bc, while young, isn't a puppy, and she doesn't have a kowtowing type of personality (she was one of my rescues). From what I understand, much of this problem behavior is around food. I agree that the other dog should be blatantly elevated, figuratively, in this case, so that the BC can see that the old girl has status over her, that this sort of behavior is not acceptable, and since much of it occurs around food, working on these issues should be that much easier. I don't have a problem with sending the message that "you are lower than dirt" to dogs with this type of behavior, and I do it by elevating the status of the other dog right before their beady little eyes.

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by sea4th:

quote:

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you could even pick up the little dog to physically elevate her over the puppy, and pet her, showing that you feel she is alpha over the pup.

Don't think that is too possible. The older dog is a dobe. ok, there are two threads going on here- that part was directed to Lauren with the older maltese X...

[sea4th]

OOOPS. Sorry.

[Miztiki]

Originally posted by laurie etc:

What was Boyden's response to the whole thing?

He didn't react at all. Just stood there indifferently. It all happened very quickly but seemed monumental to me. She's made precious few attempts at investigating him: She sniffed his butt real quick Tuesday. She sniffed him through the space under the gate Wednesday, and she sniffed then licked his lips the other day.

 

Progress is progress though, right?

[kristen]

thanks for all your help!! well my bc(Kala) is'nt only agressive near her food i have decided to feed her in my room away from our other dogs. on leash she is agressive also. she growels at them like shes trying to protect me. she gets the other dogs upset at her also. i'm not quite sure why shes exibiting this kind of behaviror. if i am petting our 12 yr old dobe she will squeze between her and I and nip at her face like shes saying "get away this is my human." I try to stop it but she is so persistant. we crate her when she does it a lot, but it dosnt seem to be helping. she is fine while we ignore our other dogs. they actually play once and a while now.

 

we also have a welsh terrier. he (Finnigan) and Kala are the best of friends! the would play tug-of-war all day if allowed. but they are both crated durring the day while we're at work.

 

i look foward to hearing more suggestions

 

Thanks ~*~kristen~*~

[Miztiki]

Kristen, I've got one here that tries to push her way between me and Boyden, or me and my husband.

 

What she's doing basically is resource guarding, and I'm the resource. She hasn't tried it in about a week though. I had company over last week and we were sitting outside. Boy was standing next to my chair and Fynne (was Lucy) pushed herself between us. Boyden put her on her back and wrapped his mouth around her throat. She yelped, he let go, and none of us ever said a word. Boy resumed his position next to me and I patted his back while Fynne stood a couple feet away feeling stupid. In other words, Boy put her in her place and I supported him. She hasn't tried it since.

 

Fynne is also aggressive towards other dogs, whether on leash or off, and also guards her food. Why? Her previous owners let her do whatever she wanted. She made her own decisions, she had no structure or boundaries, she was bored out of her skull, and she was never socialized. I've had her something like 2 months now and she's improving. We do NILIF here and she's learning to respect me, and trust me.

 

You didn't say how old she is, how long you've had her, what you've taught her, what activities you do with her, etc. Can you give more details? We could help you more if we knew more. I would also strongly suggest that you get some books about multiple dog households, read this board alot and become a regular participant, and search the internet too. It will help you alot, trust me!

[bobh]

we have a female Bc who will be 4 yo june22 she started to nip or snap at dogs face if they came into her space at about 2- 2.5 years old she was unsure of her self. and some times she would see a dog coming at her from afar and and just focous on that dog.it was very hard to distract her so we moved her befor she could snap at the dog. She has become a much more confident dog inthe last 6months. and can now alow other dogs to come into her space and dose not snap at them . She is less concerned with other dogs and now focouses on my wife , My wife does agility with her . emma (the BC) has alwas been with other dogs this snapping phase lasted about a year. This is also the time peiod that I stoped training Emma and My Wife took over Emmas Training because of thr death of her GSD Codey. So has there been any changes in your dogs life?

Bob h and the gang of4

[punkrockbc]

One of Gonzo's good BC friends is a MAJOR dog-herder. Even though he and Gonzo love each other, he decides to herd Gonzo whenever he's chasing a ball or running around a lot. He has nipped Gonzo's face several times when he was herding him and Gonzo turned to face him (once, Gonzo got a very, very bloody nose just from an artery in his nose being nipped)... like BC's nip the faces/noses of livestock that are stubborn. Could this be the cause for her behavior? Does she have strong herding drive? If so, and even if not, maybe try to teach her an alpha command that she cannot ever ignore ("LEAVE IT", "WRONG", "COME", "DOWN", etc) and give her the command when she begins to exhibit the behavior... try calling her to you. You might also be able to find a very well-socialized Alpha dog that won't tolerate the nipping and will teach her a lesson (of course with very inhibited warnings), if you think that might help.

 

Good luck, awesome job rescuing the silly girl