Looking for Help

[kkautz]

 

 

[Journey]

Oh how adorable and sad. Thanks for the links and info. Good luck!

[simba]

Is amputation an option? It might work out as more affordable, and lots of dogs do well on 3 legs, particularly young fit ones. Or might your vet agree to a payment plan?

 

 

Good luck! He's as cute as a button.

[emilyfalk]

I thought that, too, simba, re: amputation. There is a very successful dog currently running Open who had a leg amputated. You can hardly tell it around the course; he is fast, agile, and powerful. As a vet I've done many orthopedic surgeries as well as amputations and though many people can't bear the idea of removing a leg, the dogs are immediately happy and well post-operatively, in contrast to some ortho procedures that require several procedures and months-long rehab, not to mention complications or failures. From the dog's viewpoint, the amputation is much easier and actually leads to an excellent quality of life. It is also considerably easier on the owner as far as expenses and post-op responsibilities. Nothing wrong with that!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your dog and hope everything turns out for the best.

[Sue R]

I wondered about amputation, also. A youngster in England had to have a hind leg removed and he has recovered rapidly, well, and uneventfully. The expense and recovery were both much less than treatment would have been if that had even been an option. Losing a hind leg is normally much easier on animals than losing a front leg. The English youngster will lead a happy life as a working sheepdog, maybe not able to do the big hills but certainly capable of a good level of useful work.

[kkautz]

Thank you everyone for your replies. We have definitely considered amputation as an option. Our vet said that the surgery they are recommending comes with an extremely high positive prognosis. He said that with the surgery, once recovered, he would live a normal happy active life. We had originally planned to do agility with him, and however he can't guarantee that he will be able to competitively do that, he will definitely be able to be a jogging partner etc. which is of course important. We felt that since the surgery comes with such a high positive prognosis that it made sense to try to do that as opposed to amputate..

[Smalahundur]

Probably not a too popular reaction, but personally I would put this dog down.

Especially if I did not have the financial means myself to pay for such extensive surgery.

[G. Festerling]

The goal of the fundraiser of $10,000 is for one surgery? Is this the same surgeon that did the initial treatment? Did you get second opinions and on the surgery and pricing?

I think it is a tough choice. That kind of money would be hard to justify for me knowing that three legs can be just fine provided there are no hip issues. Especially since that kind of money simply does not lay around.

Best of luck.

[waffles]

The goal of the fundraiser of $10,000 is for one surgery? Is this the same surgeon that did the initial treatment? Did you get second opinions and on the surgery and pricing?

I think it is a tough choice. That kind of money would be hard to justify for me knowing that three legs can be just fine provided there are no hip issues. Especially since that kind of money simply does not lay around.

Best of luck.

My thoughts exactly. If I had the $10,000 and was wealthy enough to pay it myself then that's one thing but to ask for that much to save a dogs leg wouldn't even be an option or me. It isn't life or death, amputate and get on with enjoying your pup. Border collies don't need to do agility or jog constantly and they can do those things with 3 legs anyways! $10,000 is one expensive dog leg. I wish you the best of luck with whichever choice is made.

[GentleLake]

I've got to agree, both with checking for a second opinion and considering amputation rather than such an expensive surgery.

 

There are lots of three legged dogs doing just fine.

[Sue R]

What they said.

[WildFlower]

He is one adorable puppy! Best wishes.

[kkautz]

Hi Everyone, we set the fundraiser at $10,000 because we are waiting for the final estimate from our vet, once we have it, we will adjust the fundraiser accordingly. The first surgery put us roughly $8,000 out of pocket after the inital surgery and follow up xrays and bandage changes etc. On Friday he went for a CT Scan (another $1200) which will determine the surgical recommendation from the specialist, we should probably know tomorrow the cost estimate. The part that is hard to pass up, is that they are confident there is a very high positive prognosis (higher than 90%) that he will be able to live out the normal life of an active dog. It would be easy to say amputate if we were looking at a lower prognosis then the risk wouldn't really be worth it..

[red russel]

So you are going to spend just shy of $20,000 on a dog you adopted based on vet recommendations... I'd be looking quick for another vet.

 

And just to echo others... I had a 10 month pup that was hit by a car and had to have a rear leg amputated. The next year he and I were working on a wagon train where he was on foot for about 15 miles a day. He did great.

 

Not my business to tell you how to spend your money but If I were you and had those funds available and was bound and determined to spend them I might get the amputation, have a lovely dog that was going to live a full and wonderful life and take the $18,000 or so left over and donate it to local rescues. Help a lot more dogs that way.

 

dave

[bcnewe2]

I'm chiming in for the amputation. I had a big dog, she was hit by a car. We went through one surgery (FHO), it was a huge fail. We then had to wait for the that surgery to heal and her to gain strength back before we could even go through another surgery. We finally had her leg amputated and with in a few weeks she was a very happy 3 legged dog. It never slowed her down. She is still one happy dog living her life to the fullest.

I had/have no where near that kind of money to spend on my dogs and did/do what I can.

You do realize after this costly surgery there will be long term therapy to get her back on her "feet". With what yout vets are charging I would hate to see that bill too.

 

If I were you, I'd be getting another opinion and really thinking about quality of life for all of you when you have empty pockets when this is all said and done.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[jvw]

Wow, those are some insane prices. And I thought $3000 for knee surgery and months of therapy was a lot.

 

Where do you live?

[Smalahundur]

Well okay I´ll go ahead and say it; The prices mentioned, the timing and nature of the request and the fact this poster has signed up for this forum only to ask for cash makes me rather suspicious.

But even if I had proof of the sincerity of this request, no way I would spend a dime on this particular "charity".

[Sue R]

This was also posted on FB on at least one page I visit and with its own page. This is not the first time someone has signed up here for nothing more than seeking financial help for very costly dog expenses.

 

As has been pointed out, there is an alternative that is much less costly, with shorter recovery/rehab time, and still offers a dog a fine quality of life and activity. There are dogs that work livestock on three legs; surely a three-legged dog could enjoy a normal pet life and even agility at a satisfying and fulfilling level, and perhaps even a competitive level.

 

Sometimes what we think a dog *needs* is what we really *want* ourselves - and I don't mean that in a selfish way.

 

I wish the OP and her dog and family the very best, but I do not agree with her choice to go for extremely costly treatment and soliciting funds from strangers. JMO.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Sue R

[waffles]

I personally would only donate to something like this if it were directly to the persons veterinarian. And cant imagine donating to a $10,000+ dog leg saving surgery. Would rather save a dogs life with my money.

 

I know someone with a boarding facility who had a customer who couldn't pay their $500+ over due bill. The person lost their home and/or job don't remember the story but they set up a fundraiser type account on one of these fundraiser sites. They raised over $2,000 with a sob story about how people should donate so they can save their cats from boarding and take them to their new home. People donated thinking the money was going to pay the boarding bill so the people could keep their cats. The boarding place even linked to it on their FB site (so the facility knew about the donations) and guess what? Not a dime went to the boarding facility and they had to declare the cats legally abandoned and had to rehome the cats. All those donors got ripped off and lied to. The customers were never heard from again.

 

Don't know about this person here but I wouldn't ever donate to a stranger on the internet. Things can look legit but the person can use the money for whatever they want and you will never know it.

 

Many vets will take donations towards a customers bill over the phone.

[jvw]

I see the goal amount has been vastly reduced! Seems more reasonable now

[Sue R]

I see the goal amount has been vastly reduced! Seems more reasonable now

 

Yes, it certainly does.

 

I hope it all works out well for the little guy, whatever the choice that is made.

[kkautz]

Hi Everyone,

 

As I mentioned yesterday, when I received the final estimate from the surgeon I would adjust the GiveForward page, and I did do that today. The estimate for the surgery is $2900-$3050 and then there will be follow up xrays and rehab costs and bandage changes associated with this. After doing more research it appears the cost to amputate would not be too much less than this surgery, however the follow up and recovery would be a bit easier. The original $10,000 amount was really just a starting point until we had exact figures as we knew we were looking at surgery but we needed to get the CT results back first.

 

We are planning to proceed with surgery to fix his leg.

 

Just as a side note, please remember that those who start this post are also reading its responses. Obviously if we took the time to start the give forward page and advertise it etc. we care very deeply for our puppy and to think that we have not researched every option thoroughly as well as that we are a scam is very disheartening. If you do not feel that it is a good cause to donate to, that is your opinion and it is respected, however we obviously care very deeply about the cause, enough to step out of our comfort zone and create the give forward page, something I had never thought of doing before and something I never thought I would need to do!

[Sue R]

The new estimated pricing is much more reasonable but, as you point out, it is still quite an expense. Having had a dog of my own with a TPLO surgery and subsequent rehab, I understand that it adds up quickly. Everyone here hopes that whatever you do choose to do will be successful.

 

Are you sure the estimated cost does not include any follow-ups? Just asking because some surgeons include at least certain follow-ups in the original fee. I know my dog's ortho surgeon did but, of course, each practice sets its own pricing structure. Not quibbling, just hoping that, for your sake, there might be some follow-up costs already included in that "package".

 

As for a scam, no, I don't think anyone is saying that you are a scammer but when someone does join a group apparently only to solicit funds, that has got to be a possibility. It has happened before in groups and it will happen again. With such high figures as you originally estimated (which seemed way out of line), it was not that unreasonable that people would question your solicitation. If you had been someone we "knew" here for some time, that would have lent credibility. People can't be too careful and you may have noted that just about everyone felt sorry for your pup and hoped he would be able to be helped. In addition, an apparently much lower cost and reasonable option was a possibility even though you did not care for that as a choice. And, of course, we hope an OP reads responses, otherwise people are just wasting their time offering concern and advice.

 

So, there you are. I'm glad, along with others here, that the revised estimate is much lower and wish you and your pup a very successful outcome.

 

PS - I don't know for sure what I would do if I were in your position until and unless I experienced it but most people I know would not choose to solicit funds from strangers. I know people who would choose a lower cost option or even reluctantly euthanize a pup or dog if they could not, in their good conscience, afford treatment, and I respect them for that heartbreaking decision. Others would go into debt. Each has to make their own choice.

 

PPS - I have donated through a page similar to Give Forward, to a little girl who needed a therapy/alert dog. Or, at least, apparently needed one. Since my money went not directly to pay for that animal but rather into the hands of the parents, whose use of the money for that purpose has turned out to be possibly dubious, I'm a bit skeptical and perhaps you can understand why. As someone here (or somewhere else) mentioned, a donation page where the funds would go directly to the service provider does help some people feel more secure in their giving.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Sue R

[emilyfalk]

I tried to keep my mouth shut but I can't any longer. I'm not talking about this thread in particular and Sue, I know you mean well, but I have many personal and professional reasons to disagree with you about the merits of surgeon Dr. Canapp. This includes unnecessary tests and surgeries ($$$$), poor diagnostic practices: one case of a very wrong diagnosis that he reached without even examining the patient but only speaking over the phone with the owner...dog was scheduled for an inappropriate surgery before he even laid eyes on it, and a history of diagnosing the same condition in basically all dogs he sees. I have had personal experience with one of my dogs and I, as a vet, had to insist on declining a very unnecessary surgery where the wrong body part would have been operated on (wasn't in line with his diagnosis, whereas a chiropractor actually listened to me as the owner and within minutes corrected the problem with manual manipulation). I have heard many stories similar to the ones described above. I realize that all professionals get things wrong, but when you are reputed to be the best of the best and mistakes KEEP happening, not to mention involving yourself in practices that are fundamentally inappropriate (taking advantage of clients) and abusing your status, I feel the need to stand up for the profession.

 

Last but certainly not least, he is guilty of *plagiarism against one of our own*. His article in Clean Run on OCD was stolen from Denise Wall's website a few years ago. He admitted to it and did not show remorse, only arrogance. Clean Run was supposed to write a retraction in a prominent place, which ended up being a blurb on the second to last page. I used to have it, but have since trashed all of my CR magazines since I don't play agility anymore. I can't find it in a quick internet search right now.

 

Anyway, I'd recommend a second opinion. And Eileen, if you find this too inflammatory you may certainly remove it. You can understand why certain conditions have me very passionate about this right now. Might make me a bit unpopular, but I feel strongly enough to speak out.

[Sue R]

Thank you, Emily, for contributing your always honest opinion based on your experiences and professional perspective. I wrote mine based not on personal experience but on the experiences of several others who apparently felt their dogs received the best of care available.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I do have one friend in the animal health care profession whom I highly respect, who has had intimate experience working with the facility in question, and whose opinion is not positive, at least not for the form of service there in which he/she was concerned.

 

I have edited my posts to reflect this because I absolutely would not want to mislead anyone who read my post. I spoke out of turn.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Sue R