Help with 2 year old going under jumps

[Megs]

Hi All,

 

I need some advice or help with my little 2year old BC. I have had her for about 1 year now (she is a rescue - I am her 3rd home).

 

We have started our agility training and she is showing some awesome potential but she is quite small - about 45-47cm tall - but will still have to jump LARGE 65cm. She is awesome on a line of jumps and clears 65cm with ease but as soon as its on a turn or a start line jump that is not completely straight she goes under it and over the next jump

 

Is this just lack of training on my part or should I just take a few steps back?

 

Also if anyone could recommend a GOOD foundation dvd or book with sequences I would appreciate it I do alot of training on my own so need something of a guide to follow for her.

 

I have attached a picutre of her. She has MAD herding drive and LOVES big circles and working AWAY from me so we need to work on her being closer to me too

[Root Beer]

Also if anyone could recommend a GOOD foundation dvd or book with sequences I would appreciate it :D/> I do alot of training on my own so need something of a guide to follow for her.

 

Susan Salo's Foundation Jumping video is superb. I highly recommend it. It is very user friendly, easy to follow, and I saw results very quickly.

 

Linda Mecklenburg's one jump exercise is also very good, but I'm not sure where it can be found. I learned it from my instructor. It is super easy, but I don't know if she has a DVD of the exercise.

[gcv-border]

It is never a bad idea to go back a few steps in training (or said in another way - IMO, it is usually a good idea to back up to easier tasks if your dog is having trouble completing a harder task). I have heard that it is always good to have a little bit of kindergarten in your training every day.

 

In the instances where you say that she goes under the jump, have you tried lowering the jump bar and gradually increasing the height if her success rate is high? For example, set up the situation where the start line jump is angled so she would normally go under, but lower the bar (to only 8-12 inches (~25 cm?)) so there is no way she can go under. After she has successfully completed this sequence several times, raise the bar very gradually (1-2 inches at a time) and run her through the start line sequence again. Don't be in a hurry to raise the bar because you need to make sure she really understands that she needs to jump, not go under, the bar regardless of the angle of the jump. It sounds like she is confused. You may have to repeat this approach when the jumps are on a turn.

 

I have heard many people suggest "Agility Right from the Start" as a good foundation agility book. The authors are two Swedish (I think) women, but I can not remember the names right now.

 

Certainly work on getting your dog to work closer to you, but it can also be very helpful to have a dog that works at a distance. I don't know if you run European-style courses in your country, but here, it is not uncommon to see a tunnel out on the corner of the course where it is sooo helpful to have a dog that you can send out 20-30 feet into the tunnel and then be waiting at the next obstacle when they exit the tunnel. The handlers with velcro dogs must run with their dog to the tunnel and then accompany them to the next obstacle, thus adding 40-50 feet to their path. And there are other many other instances where distance is good.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi

[mum24dog]

Where she goes under on a turn try lowering the bar on the inside wing leaving the outside bar at the normal height. That usually fixes the problem in no time.

 

What position do you leave her in at the start? Have you tried a stand?

 

You'll need to find the optimum distnce to set her from the first jump by trial and error.

 

The problem with lines of jumps can be that a keen dog doesn't learn to check its stride and just flies over each one. Impetus alone can bring it too close to the next one.

 

Follow the advice given to raise the jump height gradually to make sure she understands that she is supposed to go over and then move on to lines of jumps where the spacing and jump heights vary to make her think about what she is doing.

[SS Cressa]

I am assuming you are in the UK? Are there any different venues over there that wouldn't required her to jump so big?

 

I also have a little border collie :)/> smaller than your she is only 17 3/4 in. She is able to jump 24-26in but I have to increase her take off space and landing areas. She needs more umph in her take off to clear such a high jump which also ends up making her land father out. If I don't give her enough space she will also go under it. Don't get me wrong we rarely jump 26in we had enter an ISC class which made her jump with the big dogs or sometime in training but I just don't do it that often.

 

If this is something she has to do just be careful. She can do some serious damage to herself if things go wrong also I think there is more impact.

[alligande]

I used Linda Meckelburgs jumping book, I have a large dog but found the exercises in the book really helped him learn to pick his feet up and jump well. The book is a great foundation and we have to re-visit some of the exercises regularly particular remembering to pick his feet up when extended and jumping into heel.

 

He learned his basic foundation work through agility right from the start, although I recommend the book as a foundation book, I don't think it is what you need here.

 

The other thing is that it might not be a training issue, but a physical one. My older border collie happily jumped 20" and at times would duck under jumps, it was either because he was ill, or I discovered his hips would go out of alignment very easily and this was his way of telling me was not comfortable.

[Megs]

It is never a bad idea to go back a few steps in training (or said in another way - IMO, it is usually a good idea to back up to easier tasks if your dog is having trouble completing a harder task). I have heard that it is always good to have a little bit of kindergarten in your training every day.

 

In the instances where you say that she goes under the jump, have you tried lowering the jump bar and gradually increasing the height if her success rate is high? For example, set up the situation where the start line jump is angled so she would normally go under, but lower the bar (to only 8-12 inches (~25 cm?)) so there is no way she can go under. After she has successfully completed this sequence several times, raise the bar very gradually (1-2 inches at a time) and run her through the start line sequence again. Don't be in a hurry to raise the bar because you need to make sure she really understands that she needs to jump, not go under, the bar regardless of the angle of the jump. It sounds like she is confused. You may have to repeat this approach when the jumps are on a turn.

 

I have heard many people suggest "Agility Right from the Start" as a good foundation agility book. The authors are two Swedish (I think) women, but I can not remember the names right now.

 

Certainly work on getting your dog to work closer to you, but it can also be very helpful to have a dog that works at a distance. I don't know if you run European-style courses in your country, but here, it is not uncommon to see a tunnel out on the corner of the course where it is sooo helpful to have a dog that you can send out 20-30 feet into the tunnel and then be waiting at the next obstacle when they exit the tunnel. The handlers with velcro dogs must run with their dog to the tunnel and then accompany them to the next obstacle, thus adding 40-50 feet to their path. And there are other many other instances where distance is good.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi

 

Thanks very much Jovi Kwik jumps perfectly on medium but now come to think of it actually goes under medium at the start too if she is too close to the jump. This is not a major problem and she generally goes over the jumps for me but I feel that I need to go back a bit, she needs to find her footing. I will most certainly take your advice. I just wish she could jump on medium height.

 

Oh and yes, she LOVES working away from me, prefers it and is faster but there WILL be times when I need her close or closer so I will work on her being comfortable doing it

 

Thanks again.

[Megs]

Where she goes under on a turn try lowering the bar on the inside wing leaving the outside bar at the normal height. That usually fixes the problem in no time.

 

What position do you leave her in at the start? Have you tried a stand?

 

You'll need to find the optimum distnce to set her from the first jump by trial and error.

 

The problem with lines of jumps can be that a keen dog doesn't learn to check its stride and just flies over each one. Impetus alone can bring it too close to the next one.

 

Follow the advice given to raise the jump height gradually to make sure she understands that she is supposed to go over and then move on to lines of jumps where the spacing and jump heights vary to make her think about what she is doing.

 

I have her in a sit at the start or a down but am now thinking a stand might be better for her - I just need to work on those waits!!! eeek.

 

I have also done lines with different spacing and height and you can see she is REALLY thinking about it, so that is something I need to carry on with but jumps at angles she struggles with, I do also think that I just need to do this gradually and not expect the world when she is so young. She is SO keen and SO enjoys herself. Tunnels are her BIG favorite and sometimes I just cant pull her off them. I know I need to be patient, we really are having such fun now as my other border (chaos) in the picture was recently injured, so now is the time to really take my mind of things and have fun with her

[Megs]

Susan Salo's Foundation Jumping video is superb. I highly recommend it. It is very user friendly, easy to follow, and I saw results very quickly.

 

Linda Mecklenburg's one jump exercise is also very good, but I'm not sure where it can be found. I learned it from my instructor. It is super easy, but I don't know if she has a DVD of the exercise.

 

Thank you I will take a look on clean run.

[Megs]

I am assuming you are in the UK? Are there any different venues over there that wouldn't required her to jump so big?

 

I also have a little border collie :)/>/> smaller than your she is only 17 3/4 in. She is able to jump 24-26in but I have to increase her take off space and landing areas. She needs more umph in her take off to clear such a high jump which also ends up making her land father out. If I don't give her enough space she will also go under it. Don't get me wrong we rarely jump 26in we had enter an ISC class which made her jump with the big dogs or sometime in training but I just don't do it that often.

 

If this is something she has to do just be careful. She can do some serious damage to herself if things go wrong also I think there is more impact.

 

Hi there, no I am actually in South Africa

 

Aren't the little collies just full of fun! My little one is such a blessing and the most amazing little collie with HUGE drive and a little bit of madness mixed in! ball mad is an understatement, she is ball obsessed and not allowed balls at home unless we are training as she will just never stop if she had the ball all the time.

 

We do have www.sadaa.co.za here which means she would jump 55cm instead of 65cm which I will be doing as well but our KUSA competitions means she would jump 65cm. You made me think though as maybe I should for now stick to only doing 55cm with her and maybe then eventually start doing 65cm at a later stage. We also have an alternate to agility which is called Dog Jumping in South Africa and in the lower grade she would jump 55cm, so I suppose I could still do both but stay away from agility on 65cm for a while.

 

Thanks, your little collie sounds lovely

[Megs]

I found Linda Mecklenburg's book "developing jumping skills for awesome agility dogs" which is not too expensive. Anyone heard of this? Seems like its a good foundation for jumping? Maybe a good place to start?

[alligande]

I found Linda Mecklenburg's book "developing jumping skills for awesome agility dogs" which is not too expensive. Anyone heard of this? Seems like its a good foundation for jumping? Maybe a good place to start?

That is the book I was referring to above and is a really good foundation and onwards jumping book, it is really easy to understand and follow the exercises. I really do credit the book with my young dogs ability to judge distance and what speed he should be going at. Sadly he still forgets himself when excited and we have to start over

[Megs]

Thanks I have bought the e-book so let the training begin!!

[dsmbc]

Beautiful dog! I use both Susan Salo and Linda mecklinberg. They are both great. it is not uncommon for a young dog to go under rather then over, especially in something that is hard for them. Would build understanding of collection and turns using one jump exercises and jump grids before I added these into sequences. is ok to work at a low height, gradually raise the height and then lower again. also, pay attention if there is one direction that is harder for you dog. Many dogs struggle more going one direction then the other and need a little help.

[ChantalB]

I'd do some around the clock work, throw in all angles, a tunnel for speed later on too. From there set uo sequences where she would normally go under a certain jump, lower that jump and reward lie crazy right away when she takes it. Click in te air if you want to really drive home that its the taking the obstacle with a jump, not an under that gets the reward. Slowly raise bar. From there do some grid work to work on lenghtening and shortening stride over small jumps. Throwing in as many jumpung situations as you can at you dog over the course of his training will help him learn to read all sorts of lines.

[gonetotervs]

where are you? Noelene Pretorius, Alett Reeed and others in Gauteng are excellent and can help you if needed; you can certainly build up a foundation just jumping but SA has some very knowledgable trainers and handlers. Might be worthwhile to do some lessons with a local trainer.

[wildo]

Besides Mecklenburg material (I've never used) and Salo material (I've used, and worked well) there's also Susan Garrett's "Success with One Jump" DVD that I've found to be quite useful in teaching jumping foundations.

 

I also saw a training trick from Garrett recently in teaching the tire jump. She'd put the dog in a sit-stay, walk to the tire, and put a tug OUTSIDE the tire, but INSIDE the support. To get the tug, the dog has only two options- jump through the tire, or run through the support. If the dog jumps, they get rewarded. If they blow through, they do not get the reward.

 

I used this method for correcting a tire issue I had in my dog and it worked fantastically. I see no reason why you couldn't apply the same technique to a bar jump- though you have to be aware of potentially adding in the falling bar. I'd start very low (like a 4" or 8" bar position) so the dog has pretty much no choice. Starting with a low bar also eliminates (hopefully) the incorporation of the knocked bar since the dog can certainly jump 4 or 8" quite easily. Raise the bar, literally :lol:/>/>/>, as understanding grows.