Aidan Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 My wife, Aidan and I were at the last event of my class reunion weekend which was a picnic this last Sunday at a local park. In the course of meeting and catching up with the news from my different classmates. My old friend from high school Manuel along with his wife, sat down to chat with us at our table. As soon as he sat down he noticed Aidan and started to gently pet Aidan. As we were catching up with the news of the last ten years, Manuel kept looking down at Aidan and finally said "This is a smart one. I bet you that the roof of his mouth is all black." My wife and I said "What" at the same time as we had never heard this comment before. So Manuel tells us that "You can tell a smart Border Collie by looking at the color of the roof of their mouth. If it is all black it is a smart one". Then Manuel said again "I bet you the roof of his mouth is all black". After a little bit of coaxing Aidan opened his mouth enough to see that the roof of it was all black. Manuel in a very satisfied voice said "See". With most people making this comment I would let it go in one ear and out the other. But I know Manuel grew up on a cattle ranch and still works cattle at local ranches and as a hobby team ropes them also. Also judging by all the horse trailers in our area of central California pulled by our modern day cowboys like Manuel, with Border Collies in their truck cab or bed. He is sure to be around them and also able to talk with the cowboys that work Border Collies with cattle over the years. So in the end I find the comment very interesting myself as Aidan is a very fast learner and very intuitive as to our commands and rules, i.e. smart. Has anyone here at the forum heard of this before? Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hadn´t heard that one, but of the icelandic sheepdog is said that double dew claws mean they have herding talent. I have yet to meet a dog of this breed that can be called talented, double dew claws or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 My mentor aspires to that statement. She has looked at all the roofs of my dogs mouths. When I brought Dew home hers was mainly pink and she had pink on her nose. Now they are both all black. Faye my newest pup has a mottled mouth. I secretly hope it will turn black but better yet I hope it stays mottled and she kicks but as a stockdog so I can put that wives-tale to rest in my mind! I've heard that one lots but try not to put anything into it. Although all my working dogs have black mouths cept Faye and she's only 8 months old so could possibly turn still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yep, it's a fairly common statement. I have also heard that dogs with pink mouths are softer dogs. I'll be honest, when I picked Devon out of a litter I opened his little mouth to see what color it was.... Fortunately, it was solid black! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I think I first heard the "tell a quality of a dog by the roof of its mouth" idea from my grandfather, a lifelong farmer in downstate Illinois. He did use a border collie to work his dairy cattle, but I think he applied the idea to all dogs. And I'll admit that I still check the roofs of my dogs' mouths when I first meet them, although I've never rejected a dog for having pink in its mouth. And it is one of the first things my father asks about each new dog in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Bunk. Seriously--anyone who ascribes to a pretty is as pretty does philosophy should think about whether they seriously want to base a dog's work potential on the color of a body part. It's just superstition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Look for a black roof of the mouth and three whiskers under their chin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Bunk. Seriously--anyone who ascribes to a pretty is as pretty does philosophy should think about whether they seriously want to base a dog's work potential on the color of a body part. It's just superstition. ^^Agreed. I did a quick check of all my dogs (except the red dogs, of course, because they won't have black roofs) and all had black. And yet all are not equally talented workers, and some learn faster than others. Imagine that. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Dear Doggers, I heard it in Scotland a long time ago. I've seen it in old books. A scottish dog nutrition person theorized about a possible origin: Shepherds dogs were fed flaked maize and whatever dead sheep. Absent dead sheep, flaked maize was poor nutrition and one of the signs of a nutritional deficiency was splotchy colors in the mouth. A dog with such a deficiency wouldn't be a good worker either. I have no idea whether this is true but the black mouth belief is widespread - as is the notion that a sheepdog's tail length and cant effects its working ability. At the Scottish nurseries one year I was told - quite seriously - about a dog who'd broken his tail, badly set, outrun deteriorated, vet rebroke, reset tail, outrun improved. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I had never heard this, but I will admit, I just went and looked in puppy Timbers mouth...big black circle in the middle of the roof of his mouth covering about 3/4 of it I don't typically believe in superstitions like these, but there are tons in the equine world and it's always fun to look at your animals and see if they qualify. And some do seem to predict pretty accurately. I guess time will tell for Timber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ok, so I have also a bit of folk wisdom for you. In my country, the deep rooted conviction is that a dog with a black roof of its mouth is VICIOUS. VERY VICIOUS! :lol: Maja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 lol new one to me! I had to check my girls mouths though...and neither the pink=softer nor the black=smarter fits mine lol Happy-pink-smartest dog I have ever met, and not soft on stock at all Misty-black-enthusisatic, but not the sharpest tool in the shed, and VERY soft on stock. my Heeler X's both have black roofs, one is a genius and the other is quite possably the dumbest dog I have ever met lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jexa Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 It's funny, I hear the same thing about horses and their "whirls"...the spiral-esque pattern of hair right between their eyes. I've heard claims that the placement and pattern will tell you about their personality, and supposedly the reason for this (heaven only knows of there is even a semblance of a shred of truth in this) is that that particular patch of hair is some of the first to develop in the womb, and develops from the cells that become the frontal lobe of the brain. While personally I don't put any stock in it, or the thought that the color of a dog's mouth will tell you about their intelligence, it's also interesting to me where these myths come from and why some people swear by it. Every once in a while there's a very interesting and possibly legitimate reason behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Interesting comments Donald. I almost posted earlier with some speculation that maybe somewhere along the way as the breed was being developed, a black roof of the mouth might have signified "purity." As in while the breed was being developed and who knows what was in the mix, those dogs with black mouths *seemed* to be the better workers (because perhaps that had more of the needed genetics that were being introduced from various breeds). In other words, there was some small kernel of truth at some point that got turned into a rule that makes no sense now.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 There was an old man who I met years back. He pat mick on the head and told me he could tell Mick was a darn fine worker. When I asked how he knew he told me cause Mick had a huge smart bump. He would check every dog he pet for their smart bumps. Occipital bone? At least it is in humans. To funny! Oh the things you hear! And yep I heard the 3 chin hairs too! Wonder if it's true in old women too? I swear my eyebrows have fallen back into my head and shown up other places lower on my body! Oh and Maja I will tell Dew she has to get with the program and get vicious...very vicious! But I think she will have to have a tounge ectomy first cause you can't be vicious and lick someone to death all at the same time! Can you? Maybe if your smart bump doesn't get in the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Yup, first heard that one decades ago. As it happens, I'm presently house/farm sitting for a friend, and between her dogs and mine, there are 9 border collies and my 1 blue merle Aussie. I just went on a mouth-checking expedition, and I found 8 black mouths, 1 black-ish pink mouth, and my Aussie has a half-black blotchy mouth. They're all smart as a whip, so, not sure what this survey says! ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Oy. Shoshone, the Queen of Quirk, had a pink roofed mouth. She was smart, smart enough to learn by watching other dogs. Like learning flyball smart. And she was the opposite of soft, the extreme opposite. There was One Way to do anything, and that was the Shoshone Way. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think licking to death proves the point . My dogs are like that - black roof and prone to lick attacks. Here is Bonnie in a pre-attack mode: Oh, and the smart bump - in Poland people claim it's a mark of a purebred dog of any breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 My dog with the prominent "smart bump" is the crazy, fear aggressive one.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Smart bumps, black mouths, tail lenght and tail curl, How about if a Border Collie is purebred it doesn't have any spots in the white? Or a good dog had a blaze down the face? Take young pups away from the mother for a couple hours and put them back and see which one goes first to the teat-that's the best cattledog. There are others out there but that's about all I can think of right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 "Don't always reject shy puppy in litter who scoots to back corner when potential new owner approaches. He/she is clever enough to not automatically trust a stranger who hasn't proven him/herself yet". What do you think? Have heard so many tales about black spot on head between ears, I can't recall. What are the latest truths to learn from it? -- TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 What is the legend with tail length or curl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well I had one "know it all" person come up to us at at trial and tell us that Border Collies with black mouths where the only ones where were any good. I asked her how she knew it and she said she read it in a book...(and therefore must be true!) I asked her to open her mouth, she did, and then I said "Sucks to be you as your mouth is pink"..... ...everyone snickered.....well, except her.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 RE: tails depends on who you hear it from, either shorter tails are better or longer ones. As for the curl, it the tip curls off t the side some ppl will break it so it goes straight. The thought is it interferes with the dog running. Many years ago it wasn't that uncommon to have a Border Collie litter with natural bob tails-much shorter than the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Just out of curiosity, I looked at the roof of Dean's mouth. It's mostly black with just a streak of pink. That's about right on the intelligence scale. He's 95% genius and 5% utter doof!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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