Jump to content
BC Boards


Registered Users
  • Posts

  • Joined

Everything posted by TEC

  1. Thought I would get back about our recent skijor adventures. Our first trip of the season could be described as somewhere between a nice wintertime hike with my dog and a bust. Beautiful blue sky, sunny day, and about ten degrees F, light wind. Mostly level 1.5 mile trail covered by about two inches of crunchy snow around a small lake, but ample for our purposes. Josie, my 35 lb lightly built BC, told me right up front that she was not interested in skijoring that day. Lots of sniffing off the side of the trail necessitating redirections/refocuses. For certain sections she pulled strong enough to lengthen my stride/glide by a few inches. This is a dog that in the right snow conditions can pull a heavy hay bale laden sled for short distances on her own . Having a plan to reinforce/review her pull training, we went out today again. Same place, a little warmer, and overcast skies. Loaded a child's plastic toboggan (almost no weight of its own) with a folded lawn chair, camera tripod and other odds and ends found in my SUV to provide a little resistance. Arranged a tow line of about 10-11 feet so that, if she stopped, the toboggan would not immediately slide into her. Attached a brake line of around 15 feet to the front, which dragged on flat areas. On steep downhill stretches and unavoidable traverses across precipitous slopes, I held the line to guard against toboggan veering off the trail, and to prevent it sliding into my dog. Today she was in the game. She showed-up for work carrying a lunch bucket. Just took a little running alongside, with upbeat "Pull, pull, pull" and anything excited I could think to say. Since the load was extremely light, and she was doing well, I added a couple large granite rocks to the front for stability/resistance, and later a big chunk of wood -- never more than approx. 25 lbs, total. On flat stretches she developed an easy running stride, uphill slowing only slightly. She was not easily distracted, but could have focused a little better. For the most part, she understood the task. I'll probably take her out for another hour with an additional 10-15 lbs, so that she steadily improves physical conditioning, never noticing added weight. Assuming she does well, it may be time to try skijoring again . Riika, it may be easier to teach your two dogs to pull than just one. I think there is something in the canine brain that likes company of their own kind, and perhaps a little competition can develop between the two. We had a great time today, and hope our experience provides motivation, and something to go by. I offer the above as a regimen that has worked for us in the past (clearly needs refresher training occasionally, since we only get out a few times/year), and is by no means unique or the only way to go. I will say that it is very similar to a video I viewed recently in which a sled dog puppy was taught the rudiments of mushing in less than an hour. The puppy progressed from pulling the handler's leash attached to harness as they ran (plus intermediate steps), to enthusiastically pulling a dogsled when teamed with an experienced dog following a pickup, handler seated on tailgate. -- Best wishes, and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, TEC
  2. Here are websites to purchase the needed gear: Skijor Belt X-Back Pulling Harness Dog Boots Tow Rope and Quick Release Buckle If you try some homemade gear to get started, I would still purchase true pulling harness(s) and tow line with quick release buckle. Skijoring is great fun, and provides winter exercise for skier and dogs. I dog skijor on x-country skis. Plan a trip tomorrow, unless the windchills are too ridiculous. The backpack/harness link in your post does not look appropriate for cross country or urban skijoring. It appears to be mainly a backpack, rather than a true pulling harness. Looks restrictive and and excessively heat insulating. Get x-back harnesses similar to the one in the links above. The dogs IMO should not be weighed down carrying anything, in order to concentrate energy on pulling at a good pace. I started my Border Collie in a pulling harness attached to a light plastic child's toboggan, slowly adding more weight as she became accustomed to it. If you use this training technique, be sure to have a rear brake line for control on downhill slopes and stops. I would first become familiar with cross-country skis. Be able to navigate and snowplow stop. Depending on snow/ice conditions, and with one medium size dog, the skier may have to provide a good deal of the power. OTOH on packed snow and two strong dogs pulling, I have seen incredible speeds with little work on the part of the skijorer. Hope you give it a try, and please report back on your adventures. -- Best wishes, TEC
  3. Nice going. The ewe and her lambs were fortunate to have the care of you and your wife, and of course Gla'ma. Out of curiosity, how many daylight hours are you getting in Iceland? We have roughly a little over eight hours here in Washington State. -- TEC
  4. YouTube's automatic closed captioning evidently is based on a programmed phonetic-based model, which regularly misinterprets. It is notoriously horrible, and never fails to provide good laughs. Apparently the algorithm is not sufficiently sophisticated to read context. With a heavy Scottish accent, sometimes it is fun to simply try to figure-out parts on your own. May take a few rewinds. Winter Solstice today. We'll get more light everyday -- TEC
  5. What is it about the Scottish accent and speaking of border collies that captures attention? I liked the video, as well. I agree about good reminders. I thought Amodei succinctly expressed what a good portion of handlers seek to do in their training. It made me want to tidy-up things I am doing now. -- TEC
  6. Recommend having your favorite beverage in hand and carving out a few minutes for one or both of the following resources on training the border collie for stockwork. Below is a well stated essay by M. Amodei on communicating clearly to your dog in a stockwork context. Northface Farm Blog. This is a nice excerpt from " " by Shadowcat Films about shepherding on the British Borders. -- TEC
  7. Congrats Smalahundur. And you still know your neighbors. Bide your time, Alchemist, and hopefully everything will fall into place. If you are dealing through a realtor, play it cool, showing only the right amount of interest, as IME, every show of emotion is conveyed directly to the seller. Good luck. Has anybody had the devilish professor who, wearing a rogue's smile, tells the class that term papers will be held in a stack at the top of a flight of stairs and tossed toward the bottom? This character claims they will then be graded in accordance with the step each paper ultimately rests upon. As I recall, the ones at the bottom got the best grade, and so forth. Was this to encourage lengthy papers that could be flinged a good distance? Even as a student, I did not believe that nonsense, and also never understood the purpose of the tale. Later, after reading a few particularly uninteresting/poorly written papers late at night, I was tempted to give that grading technique a try. Until grad school, I lived by the admonition, "Excess verbiage is excess garbage", but found that some professors (or their graduate assistants) liked to read the same idea stated in multiple ways, so I obliged them. WTH? I sympathize, Alchemist, and somewhat understand your feelings. -- Best wishes, TEC
  8. As you may know, take those dramatic "insulted" type remarks in stride, knowing that realtors who often want to be your pal, in fact have only one client -- the seller. They might not have been as affronted as he/she wants you to believe.-- TEC
  9. That's interesting about the bells. I do not know their exact purpose. Maybe to help keep flock together as they graze widely separated on sparse grass, thus being able to hear one another? Perhaps the belled sheep are in the role of bellwethers -- experienced sheep to lead to good graze, and for when dogs move them. I am just guessing. When things settle down for you, please post your pix and descriptions. I feel certain many on the forum would be interested. Not sure what you mean by "exciting", but I hope things are OK for you and your family. -- Kind regards, TEC
  10. The fjords, rocky slopes and verticality create a stunning landscape for this 2014 YouTube video. Johansen and Eliassen gather their sheep from mountain to a barn in the valley. The theme music and images are for me a perfect fit. -- TEC
  11. Kristen, great story, and sorry for your loss. I think I'll direct that a certain amount of dog hair remain on my lapel when that time comes for me . When my BC reached about 6-7 years, her medium coat became more wavy, and her undercoat grew thicker. Made her look like a larger dog, but the scale said that was not true. I do not groom her enough, frequently preferring the vacuum to correct my neglect. My wonderful wife had a lengthy recuperation at home a few years ago, and it was Christmas Eve. She suddenly decided she felt well enough to attend traditional midnight mass at our church. I was delighted that she was going. She may not have been out of the house in weeks, but I helped her hastily get dressed. House slippers, PJ bottoms, fleece jacket, hair as you might imagine from weeks of bedrest. We navigated the ice covered parking lot, and I helped her to a place in the pew. The church was beautifully decorated for the season, lights dimmed, and everybody was in their best. The lighting must have come-up for the entry procession. As everyone stood in respect, I looked at my dear wife standing next to me, and came to the realization that here was a disheveled looking woman with her arm in a sling, wearing pajamas and slippers, and to make it worse volumes of dog hair covering her from head to foot. I involuntarily began to brush and pick it from her clothing and hair, and stage whispered something like, "Poor thing, do you have a place to stay tonight?". I sensed those seated near us nod in agreement (certain I did not imagine it), and Sheryl and I began to laugh uncontrollably. It was muffled, but a good laugh nonetheless. It was one of those moments that cannot be forgotten no matter how hard we try, yet never fails to bring smiles. We like to think that God was unconcerned about her manner of dress, and that under the circumstances, he gave her a pass on the dog hair. -- Happy Holidays, TEC
  12. At my current veterinary office the exam table stays folded-up against the wall, and everybody gathers on the floor for exam, procedures and discussion. Doesn't even give me a chance to demonstrate how my BC will eagerly jump floor to table on mere suggestion . All the routine things are done in the exam room, e.g. blood draw and cyst aspiration. I hold and comfort her, and it is over within seconds. The office is staffed by a group of young turk veterinarians who had previously practiced in a well-known nationwide franchise. Josie has learned to hop on the scale by herself as we go down the hall to the exam room. The office is small and comfortable. I hope they remain profitable, as they take time to talk and educate, which is appreciated. Last visit the vet gave me a short list of home remedies for various maladies to tide her over until an appointment is available. Always a good experience. -- TEC
  13. Thank you, Paul. I'll try the exercise at first opportunity. You got excellent results, and it makes sense that the dog would understand to bend-out properly for drive flanks. An "inside flank" in this area of the Country is a flank in which the dog passes between the handler and sheep. My dog has no problem with inside flanks, yet my instructor insisted that she not pass behind me (as in your training). Consequently, we have been doing a version of the exercise in your first video for some time now, but with insides flanks, obtaining marginal results. IMHO, had I required Josie to pass to my rear, it's possible she would currently be doing better looking flanks on her drives. Anyway, I am going to give it a try, and find out. Thank you, again. -- Kind regards, TEC
  14. I am very interested in your technique. My BC pushes well on the drive, but her drive flanks are flat/shallow, so that we have a difficult time making finely-tuned direction adjustments. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I will try to paraphrase what I see in the video and your description. You have your dog behind to practice driving, so that it is dog-handler-sheep (in that order), with dog an appropriate distance behind sheep for driving. You flank your dog behind, never allowing an inside flank, and that forces the dog to make nice square flanks, that do no creep in closer to sheep. You do a number of repetitions (how many reps in your case?). After the dog is solidly keeping proper distance on flanks, you practice inside flanks in the conventional fashion. Do you follow along directly behind your dog, or off to one side? Do you change sides depending on the direction of the flank? How far behind or to the side do you place yourself? These are not rhetorical questions. We need improvement, and I am looking for ways to fix her flanks. I am extremely impressed with your and Jack's work. I believe his drive flanks are great. You are getting excellent results with limited sheep time available. -- Thank you, TEC
  15. I can sympathize. My BC has not had a problem with fleas, however previous dogs in warmer climates developed infestations. We invite dogs onto our bed, so fleas/ticks -- we just say no. My BC has picked up a tick occasionally (If I forgot monthly applications), I assume from frequent farm work. The day I brought her home from the farm as a little puppy, she had a tick on her back. Almost named her Tick to match the ticking behind her left ear. We have been happy with Frontline. I'm not sure any product is going to rid a dog of all fleas in two weeks. I'm no expert but this website describes the flea life cycle, as well as the fact that most eggs/larvae/pupae live in the environment, and the pupae can take days to more than a month to emerge from sticky cocoons and reinfest. Depends on temperature and other stimulants for time of emergence. Just a heads-up. -- Good luck, TEC
  16. Substitute names and places, and your story could be my own dog's. She is now in mid-life, and very well behaved. You are doing many good things, and keep it up. Continue to be your dog's protector, so that she remains calm and does not always have to be on guard. But know your dog's limits, so that an inadvertent moment of backsliding doesn't occur. They will happen, but have things controlled so nothing gets out of hand. As you know, Border Collies are often reactive to motion, especially somewhat unusual things like bikes, skateboards, and sometimes cars. As a puppy, my BC surprised me when she chased a couple cars. We were lucky. Below is what what has worked for us. She has done so well that I usually do not keep her on-leash on paved trails known for bikes. They apparently are getting quieter or my hearing is fading, but recently when bikes sneak up from behind, she just watches them zip by without a second look. That's good and bad. Bad because most are cruising along 25-30 MPH, and collisions are a possibility. Keep that in mind. A short leash is the best policy for most public situations where traffic is probable. We worked on a down at the end of a long line in the backyard. We took long-line walks in our medium traffic neighborhood. When a car/bike/motorcycle became visible or audible, I used the line to direct her off the road or to the edge of the sidewalk with the command "car", expecting a lie down. Lots of treats at first, but later almost entirely praise. The ultimate goal was for her to get off the travelled road when a car appears, and lie down on her own without command. Unless on leash, I have never practiced her seeing or hearing a car on her own. When off leash I keep her close and usually use "car" . The cue is for any fast moving object -- car, skateboard, motorcycle, etc. It has been very effective for us. We get broad smiles from bicyclists and drivers upon seeing her nearby in a solid down off the road/path. The above strategy desensitized her to cars/bikes, and gets her in a secure place when they randomly appear. Be very careful and on the lookout while training and afterwards. The downside to a mistake or your dog's forgetfulness is just too great. I continue to use "car" command in very controlled circumstances to reinforce her training, but would never put her into a situation where we had to depend on it, unless an unexpected emergency should come up. I can think of a couple surprises in which our training came in handy. The greatest outcome for us was desensitization to fast moving objects. -- TEC
  17. An invasive species has a negative effect on the environment, economy and/or health. We humans certainly do our share of damage, but unlike other animals we have the ability to turn things around. I like to think that our injuries to earth are beginning to be counterbalanced by benefits bestowed and damage repaired, looking toward a net positive effect. For me it is a matter of seeing processes rather than static definitions, and more uplifting to the spirit. Putting humans adjacent to rats may wake-up a certain mind-set. It is not the type of rhetoric that motivates me. Here in the west, IMO, coyotes are seen as an annoyance by those who raise livestock, but manageable. Do they have a more negative impact in your part of the Country? -- Regards, TEC
  18. In Washington State, where I live, I have not heard an inordinate fear of wolves preying on humans. Cougars, OTOH, are becoming an increasing problem, especially in the overlap areas of farms/ranches, forest and medium sized residential lots. They are being sighted on recreational trails. There may be a few scared people. As to false claims to obtain compensation and accuracy of research data, my take on that is that claims by farmers/ranchers are often made based on limited evidence available, and information that wolf packs are known to be in the area. I have no first hand experience with the problem, but through reading local accounts, it appears to be almost impossible to prove to a high degree of certitude that any attack on livestock is from a particular predator. Scavenging by multiple species is known to occur soon after an animal is brought down. I do not want to believe that very many outright fraudulent claims are made, but of course a portion may be incorrect. The minimum allowable claim is $500. In Washington there is a litany of hoops to jump through, including protecting the carcass, and having it investigated by Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). I doubt that many incidents, legitimate or illegitimate, pass muster under the established standards for compensation. I would like to know whether the system works. -- TEC ETA -- Link to Washington Gray Wolf Conservation and Management 2012 Annual Report, by Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). The report states (pg. 10) that for 2011-2012 wolves caused 17 injuries/mortalities, and for year 2012 $1595 was compensated to wool and cattle producers (pg. 12). Here is another link to Washington State's Wolf Conservation and Management 2013 Annual Report. It is very readable and in PowerPoint format. Great photos. See page 43. Therein it states that for 2013 there were 20 wolf-livestock depredation investigations. A mere 4 were confirmed wolf caused, and 6 were unknown causes. Page 53 appears to say that of a half million expended on wolves, year 2013, zero dollars were for compensation. A boondoggle for Washington farmers/ranchers? I say no. To me, it would be speculative to say that all claims-made for suspected wolf depredation are reasonably exhaustive of all known and unknown incidents that occur. A lower monetary damage threshold (currently $500) would go toward more complete reporting and claims made. Further, it is hard to evaluate the accuracy of WDFW's determination of whether depredation is wolf-caused. It could be sensibly argued that the State agency charged with increasing wolf numbers in order to accomplish State delisting (pg. 3) should not be the same agency that makes wolf-caused depredation determinations for compensation purposes.
  19. Do not overlook the benefits of healthy exercise to build muscle mass. Muscles support joints and help prevent wear and tear that lead to arthritis. If a dog is diagnosed with arthritis, low impact exercise is important -- things like swimming, treadmills, walks, and stairs. I have seen a horse hot walker modified for dogs. Nothing more natural than exercise. -- TEC
  20. All good stuff mentioned above. A few things that I did not see, and apologize if I overlooked them. I never go anywhere dog related for any length of time without both simple hand-held and large collapsible patio style umbrellas. Helps break wind, and some protection from sun and precipitation. Patio umbrellas can be secured with light lines and tent stakes. And for those, me included, who have developed CSS (can't see s**t) binoculars to see what is happening at the top. Aside from tangible items, pack: - ample sense of humor, - several well embellished stories, and - plenty of patience. TEC
  21. One year old is young to expect a good recall off sheep. Work on recall at home while concurrently training her recall on sheep. To train a recall from sheep: 1) Be sure the sheep are settled both to your satisfaction and to your dog's. Perhaps you could have her fetch to you against a fence-line or into a corner. It can be done in an open field, but the key is that the sheep are together, calm, and not moving about excessively -- settled. Watch your dog's demeanor, and from that you can determine whether she is happy with the situation, 2) Once they are settled, check to be sure that the dog is balanced to you, the sheep, and field. As you may know, with no strong draws to contend with, balance is often at about 12:00 o'clock. Otherwise it could be off 12:00 somewhat, and 3) Having your dog in a down/stop on-balance at a reasonably appropriate distance from sheep, immediately walk through sheep directly toward your dog quietly repeating "lie down", if need be. As you pass her, pat your leg (seems to send a universal message to dogs) and cue "that'll do" in an upbeat voice. As she turns to follow, clip the leash on. After a few repetitions, the leash may not be necessary, and she will follow you off the field. Mix up the training so that your dog does not conclude the sheepwork will always have a long pause or end on the "that'll do" command. Sometimes walk through the sheep, call her off, have her follow to an appropriate distance for a short outrun, and finish with a fetch to you. Repeating that a few times is incredibly rewarding to a dog, and you should see an improvement in recall from sheep. Use only slight variations of that scenario for several weeks or months, until it is nearly perfect, and then start varying the situation to make it just a little more difficult. Begin varying your position, but continue assuring that the sheep are settled, and your dog is in a stop or down. IOW, try calling her off from a circumstance that is not quite balanced. While training recall, never try to call a dog off while the dog and sheep are moving, or when they are not settled. That can come later. I have seen the above described in numerous books, and portrayed in videos. It is used at clinics and by many trainers. It works. It is commonly used. Don't get discouraged, and don't let that phrase, "Your dog doesn't respect you" eat at you. It is usually offered with the best of intentions, so it is difficult to snap back with something pithy. Nevertheless, to me it is the most ridiculous phrase a dog trainer could use. Do not let it creep into your consciousness. Replace it with learning dog training techniques. A dog doesn't recall because of lack of respect. It has a poor recall because it has not been properly trained to have a good recall. It's that simple. Harsher corrections? A loud, low pitched, and well timed verbal can be effective. A handler's positional pressure works very well. A well timed line tug can be good. Beyond those few, and I begin to have my doubts. I would try to avoid harsh correction, unless it works right away and has lasting effect. Of course, never abusive. You do not want to get into steadily escalating corrections that are not working, and may end-up being counterproductive. Good training sets your dog up for success, as described above. Reward successes with praise, and frequently allow your dog back to work sheep, of course always on your terms. -- Best wishes, TEC PS - You might consider developing a secondary phrase to tell your dog that you are taking a long break, or he/she is done for the day. I use "that'll do" to tell my dog to leave the sheep and come to my general vicinity, and be ready for another command. She is still paying attention to me and the sheep. When I am done for the day, or taking a long break, I notice a completely different and relaxed demeanor in my dog when I follow "that'll do" with, "all done". This distinction has worked well for me.
  22. I use multiple approaches to keeping teeth and gums healthy: - Canine toothpaste, 2-3 times week. Would do more, but she hates it. - Biscuits advertised as tartar control, made by Nutro Brand. Same brand as my dog food, so I stick with them. - Leather bones, by Dentley's. The bones are compressed whole pieces of leather, meaning large chunks do not easily separate to possibly get inhaled. Get twice the size you think appropriate, as that will not likely be swallowed whole. I have heard rolled leather is a safety issue for some dogs. - Compressed leather particles formed into a stick, Dentley brand. My dog consumes these like candy. They disappear in moments, and I often wonder how much dental benefit they can have when eaten so quickly. Oh well. - Pedigree Dentastix. Soft and chewy, a little like "Greenies". - Soft tug toys. My BC loves a good tug. I would think biting the tug has cleaning effect. - I feed kibble, as to me the crunchy texture must provide some benefit to teeth/gums. OTOH the counter-argument is that most dogs are fed kibble, and yet dental problems are still common. Do the nay-sayers take into account feeding kibble in conjunction with other measures? I do not feel OCD about dental health, but believe chances are improved of one or more of the approaches being successful, if several are used. Ask your vet, but a dog just over a year likely does not need a dental cleaning. It is expensive and usually requires the dog to be unconscious. That makes me uneasy. I may ask my vet about it next time in the office for my ten year old BC. We get in for a visit about 1/yr, and vet has been saying her teeth look OK. IMO at least one nationwide chain of veterinarians in this area pushes dental cleanings unduly hard, so be on the lookout for that. Other members will give you their successes feeding fresh meats and bones. To me Nylabones are excessively hard, not allowing a dog's teeth to sink-in to obtain maximum cleaning effect along nearly their entire length. JMO. "Greenies" and "Dentastix" brands are softer, and seem a better alternative. I do not get overly concerned where a product is sourced and manufactured, as long as it is popular/widely used, and sold by a reputable retailer. Well known brands usually fit that category. I like to think that problems, if any, will quickly percolate to the surface and be corrected, and/or the consumer will become aware. That has worked for me. -- Best wishes, TEC
  23. Bill, you said it! Well spoken. Learn how to train, rather than wishing for this or that kind of dog. The best trainers, IMO, do not loosely offer unsolicited opinions concerning things that cannot be readily changed. If a dog's negative trait is germane to an explanation, they always demonstrate how to train/run the dog in front of them. Work with what you have got. Develop a dog to its full potential. Learn your dog's glitches (they all have them), and how to run to its strengths. Border Collies have incredible talent. With good handling and training, I believe that, over the years, characteristics we tend to think of as innate traits can begin to emerge, and for the better. I've seen, for example, more eye, more assertiveness, more thoughtfulness in the last year or so from my BC who is almost ten. For her nothing was set in stone. I believe it is extremely important for beginning handlers to have an instructor who acts in the role of a coach/mentor, rather than a drill sergeant who does most the training him/herself, or who from a distance micro-manages your every move. In the end, an owner takes his/her dog home after the session, and has to learn how to handle on his/her own. For me the ideal coach/mentor tells and shows you a series of maneuvers, and provides a critique after you have tried them. When far enough along, he allows ample independent work time. Try to keep an open mind at first, and reserve your own opinion of the instructor, and what works for you, until you have afforded a fair opportunity, and perhaps diplomatically discussed your expectations. I too, wish you and your dog the very best. It is an exciting time. Looking forward to full descriptions, along with video, if possible. -- TEC
  24. Yeah, there will be plenty who care. -- TEC
  25. We have a species of Tar Weed in this part of the NW which seems most prevalent July-Sept. It coats animals with a sticky substance (non water soluble) and with pods from the plant itself. Of course, dirt and other stickers, burrs and thistles are better able to cling to hair covered in this material. I just read about the many species of the plant, and there is some debate whether it is efficient to attempt eradication, as it occupies an ecological niche that competes only very little with grasses. In any event, the fields my dog and I train and graze sheep are not within my pasture management control. No amount of brushing alone removes the sticky substance or layers of adhered vegetation. Five to ten minutes in the fields we work cover my dog. I groom a little, and use enzyme shampoos and conditioners, followed by additional wet brushing. Of necessity, my BC gets a such a hose bath almost every day for 3-5 weeks when I am grazing sheep and watching a friend's place, and less frequently in summer months when merely training there. Otherwise, for eight months of the year, perhaps 2-3 baths...just because. My avatar has some indication of the tarry substance (and stickers against her black) straight down from Josie's white tipped ear, on her white collar. No teflon coat or pond swim is going to shed that stuff. I learned my own DIY techniques to remove seed pods from deep within her ears. Cleared them with the vet. Josie's coat tends to be wavy, consequently as you might imagine, continual bathing made it look pretty wild for a while. She is just starting to appear normal after last summer-fall. -- Have a Happy Thanksgiving, TEC
  • Create New...