The Rise of the Designer Dogs

[brndlbc]

I met my first one of these yesterday http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/miki.htm If what the owner told me is correct, UKC is thinking about granting them breed status.

[Amelia]

She said, but akc recognizes them and he is registered with that club. He had the ilp registration, or whatever that is called now, makes me wonder if that program is only encouraging these crosses to be bred since now I guess breeders can claim that people can register the puppies?!?

 

No, the ILP program is being encouraged so that the AKC can generate more fees from breeders they would otherwise be forfeiting.

 

You never have to wonder about motives of the AKC. Don't follow the dogs. Just follow the money.

 

It also seems to me that the parents of designer dogs are not the best examples of the breed; I do not think that any reputable breeder would sell one of their best dogs/bitches to someone who planned to mate it to a member of a different breed. Does this seem right, or am I mistaken?

 

OK, lets talk about this for a moment. Reputable (AKC) breeder? Oxymoron.

 

Example: Windlair Avalanche, from birth, a deaf and blind collie from a purposeful merle to merle breeding selfishly created to obtain a stud dog that produces merle litters. At 7 months they weighted and tipped his ears knowing they would/could never show him. What kind of depraved person would do any of that?

 

A reputable (AKC) breeder.

 

You say that's not reputable. Well the AKC and many other reputable (AKC) breeders say it is. His son was best of breed at Westminister, and this dog, some say was born not only without sight, but without eyes altogether, has become the #1 sire of collies and #1 producer of champion collies.

 

It's a rare occasion you say? Ever heard of Cotton, the deaf/blind merle sheltie? Avalanche is not a rare occasion, he's the latest occasion, and what effect do you suppose his AKC success will have on the welfare of dogs? His pet-quality puppies sell for upwards of $1,000 according to his breeder's website. Do the math...

 

Good job AKC. Where other clubs and registries have outlawed MM breeding, the AKC has made it best of breed.

 

So, would a reputable (AKC) breeder sell a pup for designer dog breeding? As easily as they'd slip a fake testicle in a Dandy Dinmont...

[geonni banner]

I met my first one of these yesterday http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/miki.htm If what the owner told me is correct, UKC is thinking about granting them breed status.

I guess I just don't "keep up." I had no idea what a Mi-Ki is. So I went to Wiki.

 

Not always the best choice, but usually a decent place to start. I was highly amused at Wiki's comment, "The neutrality of this article is disputed."

 

It would appear that the Mi-Ki is a generic mutt - but tiny. Whatever.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Mi-Ki

[SamS]

 

So, would a reputable (AKC) breeder sell a pup for designer dog breeding? As easily as they'd slip a fake testicle in a Dandy Dinmont...

 

I'm positive that there are AKC breeders who truly care about their dogs and love them for who they are, not just if they fit the standard. However, I agree with you that many people become corrupted in the effort to win and are willing to alter their dog to do that. I believe what you are saying is that people are willing to do anything for money. Is that the correct interpretation?

 

Hmmmm... granting breed status to Mi-kis aka granting breed status to a mutt. That would be interesting...

[Maralynn]

I'm positive that there are AKC breeders who truly care about their dogs and love them for who they are, not just if they fit the standard.

 

I do agree with this. I think the organization is fundamentally flawed and is not truly interested in ethical breeding practices (and rewards highly unethical ones), but I don't think the same is true all breeders that register with the AKC by a long shot. Many breeds have been with them so long that that's just the way the breed is registered. For example I'd venture to guess that any ethical breeder of working Labradors or Goldens is going to register their dogs with the AKC

[brady's mom]

I'm not a huge fan of the doodles...most of the ones I've met have been sweet, but dumb as rocks. I think I'm just partial to animals I can see think, learn, and problem solve (probably going to being a collie person for life). And I don't think the people who buy them are stupid, so much as ignorant, naive, and uneducated. The best thing for sleazey marketing people is an uneducated audience. Unfortunately that's largely what the American public is, and not just in pet ownership...it's in a lot of things (but I won't go into those). A lot of people think the AKC is the most Holy of All Holies when it comes to dogs, too. Or they think it's totally okay and sweet when Fifi jumps up on people and tackles them to the ground because "she's just being friendly, she likes you!"--they just don't really know any better.

[Root Beer]

But what inquiring minds really want to know, is why would you mix a perfectly good poodle with a golden/labrador retriever?

 

LOL!! My question would be the other way around. Why would you mix a perfectly good Retriever of any kind with a Poodle?!!?

 

:D

[PSmitty]

^^Me, too, Kristine!

[Pippin's person]

.....what's the difference when you're breeding pets if they're purebred or crossbred? Everything else being equal who cares if they're poodles or labradoodles, pugs or puggles? Sure, you can get mutts out of shelters and rescues, but you can also get purebred dogs that way just as easily.

 

And to play further, "purebred" dogs are of course also designer dogs--every "breed" having been developed at some point through selective breeding based on specific traits the humans involved cared about.

[juliepoudrier]

LOL!! My question would be the other way around. Why would you mix a perfectly good Retriever of any kind with a Poodle?!!?

 

:D

Our neighbor had two standard poodles (full size--bigger than my border collies) when I was growing up--Pierre and Suzette. Amazing dogs. Although I'm not fond of the minis (largely because I think they've been bred for less-than-stellar reasons), but many standard poddles I know are beautiful, intelligent dogs. Probably because they aren't as popular as the little ones and so haven't been bred by every BYB with an eye to making a buck. Sadly the same can't be said about many retrievers and labs--those breeds are so darn popular that finding a really well-bred one takes some work, which unfortunately most people don't bother with.... In other words, you can find great poodles and great labs/retrievers, but you'd need to do your homework on both, and most people can't be bothered.

 

J.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

As the owner of a breed (largely) created by illiterate shepherds from an unknown number of regional British sheepdogs,probably a whippet or two and almost certainly a Gordon Setter, I don't climb on my soapbox about designer breeds. Friends, all breeds are "designer breeds". Some breeds are more recent than others. What matters is what they were designed for and how well they execute the design.

 

Donald McCaig

[Amelia]

I believe what you are saying is that people are willing to do anything for money. Is that the correct interpretation?

 

No, I'm saying that the words "reputable" and "breeder" are mutually exclusive as they pertain to the AKC.

 

Encarta dictionary definition of reputable: known to be honest, reliable, or respectable

 

I don't care how much you care about or for your dogs. If you support an organization as malignant, malevolent and egocentric as the AKC, by association, you can not be reputable.

 

Puppy mills, brachycephalics, MM breeding, immediate family in-breeds, and so much more misery is overtly or tacitly approved by the AKC. Why would anyone, for any reason and/or justification you can name, give a nickel to an organization that knowingly, with malice and aforethought, causes harm to dogs?

 

It's not OK because Goldens have been regiestered that way for so long. It's not OK because theirs is the only event in town. It's not OK because it's the only way to make my dog a champion. It's not OK because everyone in my local club says so. IT's NOT OK!

 

Go start your own registry, event, championship, club, and base it on good health and welfare instead of blind and rampant denial of the cold, hard facts. In the AKC, the emperor has no clothes and their "reputable breeders" haven't caught on yet. To me they look pretty foolish and in far too many instances, they look foolish and cruel.

[beachdogz]

Dear Doggers,

 

As the owner of a breed (largely) created by illiterate shepherds from an unknown number of regional British sheepdogs,probably a whippet or two and almost certainly a Gordon Setter, I don't climb on my soapbox about designer breeds. Friends, all breeds are "designer breeds". Some breeds are more recent than others. What matters is what they were designed for and how well they execute the design.

 

Donald McCaig

 

My issue is not that designer dogs are mixed breeds. My issue is:

 

1. someone is over-breeding mixed breeds for a horrendous amount of money

2. some people are (in my eyes) "buying into" the marketing hype and paying

when...

3. you can get a perfectly good "designer dog" or mixed breed or whatever at

your local shelter or rescue and

4. we just don't need anymore dogs in this world bred for the sole purpose

of someone making money off of them.

[Tommy Coyote]

Dear Doggers,

 

As the owner of a breed (largely) created by illiterate shepherds from an unknown number of regional British sheepdogs,probably a whippet or two and almost certainly a Gordon Setter, I don't climb on my soapbox about designer breeds. Friends, all breeds are "designer breeds". Some breeds are more recent than others. What matters is what they were designed for and how well they execute the design.

 

Donald McCaig

Gordon Setters? What about English Setters? I ask that because I have taken care of several English Setters that really remind me of border collies. Both in appearance and in personalities.

 

Mary

[Pam Wolf]

LOL!! My question would be the other way around. Why would you mix a perfectly good Retriever of any kind with a Poodle?!!?

 

:D

Perfectly GOOD retriever??????? do they exist???

 

 

 

and again"once Size fits all"

[Root Beer]

Perfectly GOOD retriever??????? do they exist???

 

 

 

and again"once Size fits all"

 

Yes, they do. I've met many very nice, well mannered, retrievers with an appropriate level of drive and an off switch.

 

I love the look of a retriever that is in good shape and is well balanced physically. I do tend to prefer the ones that are a bit smaller than is typical, and they aren't all that uncommon. I have met many who are well built, athletic, and have had personality plus to boot.

 

Of course, there are too many who are untrained, bored, overweight, or are the obvious result of poor breeding. But I don't judge all of them by that standard.

 

I don't like Poodles. I've met some nice ones, but I've never met one that made me wish I had a Poodle, or a dog mixed with Poodle. I am very drawn to Labs - before I knew about Border Collies, the Lab was my favorite breed. I prefer Border Collies, of course, but I still enjoy meeting retrievers and watching them at dog sport events. This past weekend, Tessa and I were in classes a couple of times with all Goldens, and I enjoyed sharing the sidelines with them as we waited our turn to run.

 

And my Border Collie/Lab mix was a treasure of a dog. I'd have another (within a group of at least two Border Collies), and someday I might (from rescue, as Maddie was, not from a breeder). I often wished she was a breed. I've met several other Border Collie/Lab mixes that I have liked an awful lot.

 

I know there are others who prefer Poodles and would prefer a Poodle to a Lab or Poodle/Lab mix. Of course, one size does not fit all. If all I had to choose from were Lab, Poodle, or Lab/Poodle mix, there would be no question. I'd go with the Lab. Obviously, there are those who are liking this mix a lot. I can't say I understand why, but I also meet a lot of people who don't know why anyone would want Border Collies.

 

Of course, my original comment was said somewhat in jest. But truth be told, I definitely prefer most Retrievers of any kind to Poodles.

 

I know that Border Collies don't typically like Retrievers - even Maddie didn't, and she was half Lab. But on that my dogs and I simply agree to disagree.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I had one guy at work sneer down at me when he found out that I had Border Collie and also breeds them. he began to spout about unwanted dog, poor breeding practices, the whole spile...I let him finish them told him that I rescued over 150 Border Collies and Border Collies Mixes as a rescue person and how many dogs did he rescue? About half of them we pulled from the shelters....after some education, he changed his opinion.

 

A couple of friends have the Lab-doodle and they have health issues and the owners are allergic to them. I guess the Lab part must have been dominate. One is almost blind at one year old. I aksed what health clearances the breeders did....they didn't know but when and checked and to their horror, there wer none....it was a BYB with pixs of the parents and fat happy puppies and a well written sale pitch. The blind one was put down and the other one has bad hips and as a result is snappy due to the pain. They have child and are managing it but when the dog is in too much pain, they will put it down.

 

Crossbreeds can be wonderful dogs and i have had a few. Breeding them for $$ is what not my cup of tea nor should be done but this is a free country.

[terrecar]

Perfectly GOOD retriever??????? do they exist???

 

They most certainly do exist. They just don't look anything like the blocky headed, barrel chested, all around thick looking dogs you see at those AKC shows.

 

 

 

and again"once Size fits all"

 

Not in this case. The show Labrador's bulky size is more suited for anchoring the gunner's boat than jumping from it. Field Labs even look leaner and more athletic.

[SamS]

I love the look (and personality) of field labs; however, the vast majority of labs in my community are from show lines.

 

I like also goldens, but several that I have met seem very headstrong and unaware of other dog's boundaries.

 

All the standard poodles I have met (mind you, that's about 5) I have liked, but I have only liked a select few of the hundreds of labs. I vote poodles

 

*I use liked as in I would have been willing to have them stay with me for a day or so*

[simba]

Just from reading the pedigree dogs exposed blog (and yahoo answers) and talking to people, it's amazing how many people are vehemently against 'designer breeds' (or mixing of breeds) of all kinds, under all circumstances.

 

I can understand being against dogs being bred indiscriminately for money, dogs being poorly-bred, dogs being an expensive fashion statement for uneducated owners etc. I can understand people who want other people to call their dogs mutts or mongrels rather than shih-poo or whatever the latest is, or who think people should rescue if they're that easy about the traits. But for some people (nothing I've read on here though) the blood-mixing seems to be a major problem. The breeding practices are also common among purebreds, but all the blame gets laid on the 'designer dogs'.

 

 

Disclosure: never owned a designer dog (just a lovely mutt), and I wouldn't pay big money for any dog.

[juliepoudrier]

Just from reading the pedigree dogs exposed blog (and yahoo answers) and talking to people, it's amazing how many people are vehemently against 'designer breeds' (or mixing of breeds) of all kinds, under all circumstances.

It's the kennel club mindset. Only purebred = good. It's why KC folks will resist outcrossing even if doing so could make the difference between life and death for a breed as a whole. I have no real problem with people mixing breeds. I just think it's sad that they do it, slap a cute name on the result, and get people to pay REALLY BIG BUCKS for it.

 

As Donald noted, purebred dogs didn't spring from the earth that way. They were created by mixing this and that to get a dog that suited a particular purpose. Nowadays it seems the purpose is to part people from their hard-earned money.

 

J.

[Maralynn]

 

And my Border Collie/Lab mix was a treasure of a dog. I'd have another (within a group of at least two Border Collies), and someday I might (from rescue, as Maddie was, not from a breeder). I often wished she was a breed.

 

 

She must have inherited the good qualities of both breeds! The BC/Lab mix that I knew was a crazy spaz. Sweet dog, but crazy busy, tons of energy and barky as all get out. Reminded of the Tasmanian Devil And she was owned by a very competent dog person so I shudder to think of what she'd have been like in a different home!!

[Laurae]

I don't mind designer dogs very much, and I don't mind people paying a lot for them (whatever, their money). But I wish the science behind crossing two F1 dogs versus breeding their offspring was a little more widely understood by the general public.

[MrSnappy]

I do not like Labrador Retrievers. Have never much cared for them, and really can't stand them in the shelter. They are usually the loudest and the hardest to leash up to take out as they are bouncing off every surface, including the kennel staff.

 

However, I can appreciate the sweet nature of a Golden Retriever very much, even though they are not the breed for me by any stretch. This morning I had to go collect two overnight impounds from the ER clinic with one of my staff who did not feel experienced enough to get the one dog, whose breed I will not mention, that had to be removed from the clinic on a catch pole. That dog went in the back of the truck, but there is no cage or divider back there so the Golden had to ride up front with us ... on my lap. All 80lbs of him. There are not many large breeds I would plunk as strangers on my lap for a car ride, but the Golden was lovely as could be The dog in the back was the anti-Golden!

 

RDM

[mum24dog]

It's the kennel club mindset. Only purebred = good.

J.

 

Even those who are anti KC practices can be tainted by the idea that "mixed" is inferior to "pure" though.

Maybe it's partly semantic too.

 

I've had several of my mongrel dogs at Crufts. Several times people have asked me what breed my little dog with no discernable component breeds apparent was. It was all I could do to prevent myself saying "Only a mongrel" and that reply wouldn't have reflected what I really think at all.

 

The best response I got was "Oh, she looks like she ought to be something" - my random stray versus all those "carefully" bred purebreeds.

 

It's all nonsense - purebreed or designer dog. A dog's value lies in how it fits in the life it is expected to lead.