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The Rise of the Designer Dogs


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So, what is the difference between a "commercial kennel" and a puppy mill? This is not a sarcastic ?, I really don't know what would make one commercial and one a puppy mill. Does it come down to licensing? By who (or is it whom :))? Are they inspected (not that that makes it any better)? Is it actually legal to keep dogs in cages to just be bred? Can anyone ask to walk through?

 

I do not live in an area where there are "commercial kennels", and, though it sounds like I'm stupid and/or naive, I did not know such existed..."out in public". I have enough of an issue with "small breeders for a living" as is, and their dogs are very, very well cared for. Thanks to whoever can answer this!

 

They are the same thing. They are governed by the USDA, you can look at their site for regulations. They are legal in most places in the US. They are inspected but not often enough and even then what they do (small cages, hundreds of dogs, etc) is legal. The USDA even has size requirement for the cages (which is dumb to begin with, what dog should live its life in a wire crate) If you just google puppy mill you will find all kinds of information, photos, videos, etc.

 

In most places it is not illegal to chain your dog to a tree 24/7 or keep it in a small pen either. The laws in many parts of the country do not do enough to protect dogs from mills or their own owners.

 

Also, they are private property obviously so no, no one can demand to go in except for inspectors.

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Hypoallergenic breed, cross-breed, designer breed is all a load of BS. The proteins that humans react to in dogs are produced in glands in the mouth. What makes an individual dog cause more or less reaction in an allergic human has to do with how much of these proteins each dog makes AND the skin health of that dog (dog licks body, skin dies, flakes off as dander containing the proteins).

 

The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology 2012 Jun 22

Can f 1 levels in hair and homes of different dog breeds: Lack of evidence to describe any dog breed as hypoallergenic

Vredegoor DW, Willemse T, Chapman MD, Heederik DJ, Krop EJ

 

The creator of the labradoodle searched for a poodle that his client did not react to, then crossed that poodle with a guide lab in the hope of getting a pup his client did not react to. I find it interesting that a poodle was chosen since the WHO has/had a Hair Dander extract for allergy treatments collected from poodles (WHO International Standard Dog Hair Dander Extract).

 

Here's a question for everyone. Who is more likely to do genetic health tests prior to breeding: breeder of pure breds, breeder of designer breeds, breeder of muts? Just because the cross is from two different breeds (or two muts) does not automatically mean the cross will not mate carriers of the same genetic mutation. Most known genetic diseases have been identified in multiple breeds; these mutations may have been present prior to the development of the breeds, meaning it can/does exist throughout the entire dog population. The prevalence of the mutation has been increased within some breeds due to in-breeding (de facto consequence of creating a breed).

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Just because the cross is from two different breeds (or two muts) does not automatically mean the cross will not mate carriers of the same genetic mutation. Most known genetic diseases have been identified in multiple breeds; these mutations may have been present prior to the development of the breeds, meaning it can/does exist throughout the entire dog population. The prevalence of the mutation has been increased within some breeds due to in-breeding (de facto consequence of creating a breed).

I think that the prevalent myth that "mutts are healthier" is just that - a myth. Sure, if a population dogs are in a situation where they are breeding at will and independent of human intervention in their heath issues, there will be a sort of genetic robustness to the population due to the fact that the ones that have major health problems will die.

 

Working in veterinary hospitals taught me that the mutts that came in were just about as likely to have health problems as their pedigreed brethren. The difference was their owners were less likely to take drastic measures to treat a hereditary problem and then breed the problematic dog.

 

I saw way more intact pedigree dogs than mutts in clinics. But the mutts that did whelp litters had their share of abnormal pups - probably because they had poorly-bred purebred kin close behind them in their pedigrees.

 

Though it is considered barbaric and cruel nowadays, I think the old-time breeders had it right when a pup with an obvious defect went straight "into the bucket." Especially when you consider that spaying wasn't an option, it's not surprising that the dams of such pups were often done away with as well.

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Though it is considered barbaric and cruel nowadays, I think the old-time breeders had it right when a pup with an obvious defect went straight "into the bucket." Especially when you consider that spaying wasn't an option, it's not surprising that the dams of such pups were often done away with as well.

 

What about the sires? :blink:

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Well, when my one pup was produced with a visible genetic defect (more were found as he grew up to adulthood, as the vet who examined him warned me), the breeder did away with his sire - not. He was sold on to someone else as a stud dog, and I'm sure the new owner was none the wiser. The dam, on the other hand, was older and after a lifetime of being a puppy producer, I think was retired.

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Here, here! It takes two to tango. :D

 

Jovi

Males are easier... snip, snip. People have been castrating male dogs (horses, cattle, hogs, roosters, etc.) for centuries. The spay is a relatively recent development.

 

And I imagine that if a bitch was very good at what she was bred for - hunting, livestock work, etc. - she might well have been kept. But the pups, if any, would often be viewed as useless and destroyed.

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Males are easier... snip, snip. People have been castrating male dogs (horses, cattle, hogs, roosters, etc.) for centuries. The spay is a relatively recent development.

 

And I imagine that if a bitch was very good at what she was bred for - hunting, livestock work, etc. - she might well have been kept. But the pups, if any, would often be viewed as useless and destroyed.

Except for roosters. I read an account of how to do this in some chicken book when I first got chickens. It's brutal--invasive, apparently rooster testicles are inside and you have to go into the bird to get them. The resulting neutered bird is called a Capon and is supposed to taste good. Never tried it. Looked at my roosters, looked at the book, and decided to let the boys just duke it out.

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Except for roosters. I read an account of how to do this in some chicken book when I first got chickens. It's brutal--invasive, apparently rooster testicles are inside and you have to go into the bird to get them. The resulting neutered bird is called a Capon and is supposed to taste good. Never tried it. Looked at my roosters, looked at the book, and decided to let the boys just duke it out.

Yeah, pretty grim... But I guess people just figured if it didn't survive the procedure there would be a chicken in the pot that night.

 

ETA

As for the male/ female thing. I think people must have worked out early that the males have a much greater potential for parenting offspring than the females. After all, you could have only one male and a plethora of girls and end up with all the girls pregnant all the time. But if it were the other way 'round you'd get far fewer babies in a year. Plus, the males can be - well - "high maintenance" unless cut. Especially if they're a 1400 lb bull, whereas a 1400 lb ox w/ no testicles is just the thing for dragging around some enormous cart.

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On a different topic, there is yorkie X Chihuahua pup that is now known for being Britain's smallest dog: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2195184/Britains-smallest-dog-Mini-tiny-sit-iPhone.html

 

I hope that the pup will not be sold for a hugely outrageous price just because she is a "teacup" dog. What are your thoughts on this?

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On a different topic, there is yorkie X Chihuahua pup that is now known for being Britain's smallest dog: http://www.dailymail...sit-iPhone.html

 

I hope that the pup will not be sold for a hugely outrageous price just because she is a "teacup" dog. What are your thoughts on this?

 

 

Generally I wouldn't concern myself with what people willingly pay for a dog. Caveat emptor and all that. However, in terms of the impact on supply/demand, I have to say that it does concern me. The whole teacup thing makes me wince, particularly since there may be an increased risk of hypoglycemia in very small dogs. The average puppy buyer may not know it's a problem and/or may not be able to recognize the symptoms. It can be fatal, particularly in a young puppy.

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Teacup dogs are awful. Once you get below a certain size (I have always heard < 5 lbs) you are significantly increasing the risk of hypoglycemia. I have toy dogs and do not understand why in the world you would want to go any smaller than they already are. I already worry about my littlest one a lot because she's so tiny and she weighed in at 7.6 lbs at the vet on Friday. I can't imagine a 3 or 4 lb dog. That is half her size!

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I definitely have heard about the multiple health problems associated with teacup dogs. I forgot to add in my post that part of the reason I was concerned about the pup being sold is that this puppy will likely have many health problems that the average owner is not prepared for. Add the phrase "Smallest dog in Britain" and I bet a lot of people who are unprepared for dog ownership will want to own this pup or one like it.

 

It is hard to imagine a 3-4 pound dog. The pup in the article is expected to top at 1.5 pounds!!! A dog the size of a rat...

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I definitely have heard about the multiple health problems associated with teacup dogs. I forgot to add in my post that part of the reason I was concerned about the pup being sold is that this puppy will likely have many health problems that the average owner is not prepared for. Add the phrase "Smallest dog in Britain" and I bet a lot of people who are unprepared for dog ownership will want to own this pup or one like it.

 

It is hard to imagine a 3-4 pound dog. The pup in the article is expected to top at 1.5 pounds!!! A dog the size of a rat...

 

A friend of mine bought a 'teacup' chihuahua and it died shortly after he got it. He spent a ton of money on it and found out that because of its size its organs (don't remember if it was just the heart or the lungs) were never fully developed. Apparently this is somewhat common in dogs this size. He of course, replaced it with another teacup chihuahua, weighing a whopping 3 lbs (I'm afraid of to touch the dog, if it jumped off the couch I think its leg would break). He also has an english bulldog so I guess he doesn't see the health problems in these dogs. But, he has all the money he needs to buy and take care of inherently sick dogs so good for him but bad for supporting the breeding of unhealthy dogs who ultimately pay the price of human ignorance.

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He also has an english bulldog so I guess he doesn't see the health problems in these dogs.

 

Bulldogs and teacup dogs both have very serious health problems and it is horrible that people have started breeding teacup (or at least miniature)bulldogs. The english bulldogs apparently are 25-30 lbs and the french bull dogs are 2.5-4 lbs.

 

How much does an 3 month old english bulldog usually weigh? I ask because one of the sites selling mini english bulldogs has a 3 month old pup that weighs 1.9 lbs!

 

More horror stories (people's experiences with teacup dogs): http://www.barktopia.com/teacup.htm

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I have taken care of 3 pound dogs. They really aren't anything like a real dog. It's like trying to take care of a very little wind up toy.

 

And you have to be so careful all of the time not to step on one or even pick it up the wrong way. They get hurt so easily.

 

Would not want one.

 

These are more "designer" dogs meaning they match your designer outfit and fit in your $1200 designer bag.

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These are more "designer" dogs meaning they match your designer outfit and fit in your $1200 designer bag.

 

Ah, yes. Another disease to which these poor diminutive creatures succumb: Bubble headed bleach blonde syndrome. I hear it often strikes among the rich and famous.

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Any time someone breeds for extremes, that person is breeding for problems of one sort of another.

 

The problem with J Q Public is that he/she can be sold an image (largest, smallest, whatever-est, and "rare") and will be willing to pay bigger bucks for something that not everyone apparently has (yet) but that everyone apparently wants or will want. And that's always a recipe for problems because there will be someone without scruples or who is ignorant - or both - who will be willing to try and produce that product for sale. And there will always be someone ignorant or stubborn enough to want it. And it's the animals who pay the price.

 

Someone mentioned a website/list where people talk about their teacup (or whatever) nightmares - what did they think they were getting when they bought an extremely-bred pup? Hello?

 

Maybe dogs shouldn't be licensed - maybe people should have to be licenses to have a dog or dogs. Get educated, pass a test...

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No, no, not a good idea! Who is the biggest player, with the biggest bucks when it comes to organisations in the dog world? So what lobby is going to call the shots when it comes to the kind of legislation you have in mind....?

 

I see what you mean, but the AKC wouldn't necessarily be running the licensing business. It could be run by the state or town.

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The problem as I see it is who's going to set the criteria for a "good dog owner?" I know a number of people, all of which I think of as good dog owners who vary widely in their "parenting choices." Some use the Koehler Method and some "click and treat." Some of the dogs sleep in kennels, while others have a heated bed in the bedroom. Some license their dogs and some don't. Some have one dog and others 4 or more. Some have fenced yards and some don't.

 

Some veterinarians say it doesn't matter what kind of dog food you buy. Some say raw is bad and kibble is good. Some advocate annual vaccinations and others are questioning this practice. I give my dog Frontline/Advantix teatments on a semi-regular basis. But I don't use heartworm preventative - instead I get my dog tested regularly. Some people would say that makes me a bad dog owner.

 

I may curl my lip in disgust at the woman ahead of me in line at the market with a bun in the oven, a toddler on her hip, two kids in the cart and two on the ground, with her cart full of soda-pop, sugar-based breakfast cereals, TV dinners and cookies. I may think those kids would be better off with someone else or maybe never having been born. I might wish that common sense would tell her to quit trying to single-handedly populate the planet. But I will fight like a wild cat against anyone who tries to legislate away her right to have them. Just as I will stand up in court and speak out if she ever beats them, starves them, locks them in a closet or does some other kind of actionable crime against them. And I would fight like a wildcat if any government agency tried to tell me I have no right to own a dog.

 

I'm all for regulation of high-numbers puppy producers like puppy mills, but there comes a problem of where to draw lines there too. Perhaps a substantial tax on each pup produced for the pet-shop market is a way to make puppy-milling unprofitable enough to discourage doing it, but where does that leave the serious working dog breeder who may put a couple of litters on the ground each year?

 

No, I think the government should keep it's nose as far as possible out of regulating dog owners and dog ownership.

 

Note: I edited out one analogy and replaced it with another. Sorry to any it may offend.

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