Dirty dog at dog show

[PSmitty]

Ooh you really showed those show people up.

 

What is so wrong with enjoying a clean trim dog? I love them smelling like coconuts or lavender.

 

I don't know. It seems to a be a point of pride around here for people to talk about how little they groom or bathe their dogs. I think it makes them feel a bigger separation between "us and them" and they like it that way.

 

I think the original post is funny, though! I don't seem to have one of those dogs who never gets dirty. The dirt in my backyard really sticks to the white on my dogs, so that when I do finally wash them, I'm amazed at how white the white parts are!

[PSmitty]

Could you bring a bar to the Kingston trials? I'd love to try it on Lou, as I take enormous pride in making his white parts the whitest they can be. I guess I'm one of those weird people who likes a clean dog.

 

Points off your Serious Sheepdog Person card for that!

[terrecar]

Points off your Serious Sheepdog Person card for that!

 

Hehehehe!

 

I see a new marketing ploy: Shampoo that smells like sheep dip.

[juliepoudrier]

I think that the "holier than thou" attitude goes both ways. I have been to dog shows with my dogs and had them looked down on because they didn't fit the mold (although they weren't covered in cow manure or anything). I don't really care because they are what I choose. Likewise for the people at shows (they prefer what they have and what they do, and that's their choice).

 

When I say I don't regularly bathe my dogs, I don't see it as some sort of badge of honor. It's just reality. For one thing, I have a lot of dogs and bathing them all regularly would be very time consuming. Yes, I'd love it if they were all sparkly clean all the time, but we live on a farm and if I wanted them that way, I'd be bathing dogs constantly. So I pick and choose when to bathe, generally based on the awfulness of what they've gotten in to. I have lived where the dirt is red clay. Anyone who has kept horses, dogs, or anything else on red clay knows what an uphill battle it is not to have the light parts of your animals a permanently scrungy orange.

 

On the other side of that coin was the wife who came for lessons with her husband after days of rain and then worried the whole time about the dog getting dirty. Well, yeah, it happens. But if the dirt bothers you, you can bather her after!

 

I don't understand all the "extras" that show people use, but as others have noted where there's money and prestige involved people will do what it takes to win. And that attitude isn't limited to just dogs. But as long as the judges allow it by putting dogs up who have been chalked, etc., it will continue.

 

I am extremely smell sensitive. Strong perfumes make me physically ill (headache, vomiting). I don't use anything for myself that has anything other than a very mild smell, and I wouldn't use anything other than mild smelling soaps on my dogs. I can't imagine how a strong perfume would affect their sensitive noses.

 

J.

[Maralynn]

I don't know. It seems to a be a point of pride around here for people to talk about how little they groom or bathe their dogs. I think it makes them feel a bigger separation between "us and them" and they like it that way.

 

Personally, I don't really care either way. I'd love to have squeaky clean dogs. Alas, that is not reality for me. I live in the country. I do outdoor activities with my dogs. Giving them baths every time they got dirty would take a few extra hours a week that I don't have. So I don't sweat it and am grateful that I can stick them in their kennels and that most that dirt just falls out after they're dry

 

But for the life of my I can't understand the reason for chalk I mean, give you dog a bath then add all the dust back in? isn't that counter productive

[mum24dog]

When I say I don't regularly bathe my dogs, I don't see it as some sort of badge of honor. It's just reality.

 

Just reality that it isn't necessary to have a dog that smells like it's just come from the beauty parlour - and just reality that regular bathing can make it necessary to keep on doing it because it can damage the Teflon quality of the coat - but the sellers of pseudo-human pet products don't tell people that of course.

[terrecar]

I understand using chalk to strip terriers i.e. to grip the hairs. Clipping softens the coat, and we can't have that now, can we. That fails as an excuse though, because rather than washing it out before the dog is shown, it is added.

 

Julie, I agree that the 'holier-than-thou' works both ways. People are people. But my impression is that there isn't quite the level of cut-throat competitiveness and supercilious nonsense in sheepdogging that there is in the dog fancy. I think the nature of the fancy prompts fanciers to crank it up a few notches.

 

That isn't just sour grapes either. I didn't leave the fancy because of the people. There are some decent people who show and I made valued friendships. I left it because I genuinely love dogs. I went from 'show dogdom' to companion animal welfare.

[airbear]

Points off your Serious Sheepdog Person card for that!

Oh, I've never had that card. After all, I call it 'herding', which is the ultimate badge of dishonour. Oh, my freshly bathed dogs have been having a ball at this hotel, swimming in the lake and rolling in the sand. Bloody dogs.

[Liz P]

No, it's NOT about being proud of having a dirty dog. I like a clean dog. In fact, I can't stand having a stinky dog in the house. The fact is, my dogs stay clean smelling and looking because they have a natural, healthy coat that takes care of itself. I am proud that they are healthy, hardy animals that don't need a lot of fussing just to stay healthy.

 

When I was a kid Mom bought me a little poodle cross. If that dog didn't get a bath once or twice a month and at least weekly grooming she became stinky and horribly matted. When she next bought me a working bred Border Collie pup I did the same grooming routine, thinking that's what dogs needed. But I quickly realized he didn't need as much fussing as my poodle cross, and slowly I bathed him less and less frequently. Despite that he stayed clean and free of tangles. I spent less time grooming him and more time enjoying him (hiking, agility, flyball, obedience, etc).

 

I don't want a dog that needs to be pampered just to stay healthy and I am proud that my dogs are all natural but still smell and look great.

[Aidan]

Although Aidan gets a bath once in awhile. Both he and I prefer the more natural way.

[juliepoudrier]

Julie, I agree that the 'holier-than-thou' works both ways. People are people. But my impression is that there isn't quite the level of cut-throat competitiveness and supercilious nonsense in sheepdogging that there is in the dog fancy. I think the nature of the fancy prompts fanciers to crank it up a few notches.

Well I have to say that because I do set out I see most of the dogs who run at a trial and I am usually a bit (okay more than a bit) dismayed by the ones who are matted and scraggly and just look plain uncared-for. My dogs aren't the best groomed on the planet by any means, but I always feel sorry for the dogs who give so much to their owners on the trial field but who apparently don't even warrant having the clumps of loose undercoat removed before bringing them out in public. So I guess I'm snooty in my own way.

 

Debbie could confirm my comments to her at the Bluegrass this year when I noted all the dogs with blindingly white trim on them that came to the top, in contrast to my own brownish stained dogs. I wasn't making fun of the beautifully clean dogs--they looked wonderful--but simply how bad they made my own dogs look by contrast.

 

But it seems to have become common practice on this forum to direct barbs and sarcasm at the people who are part of the "other" culture, and that's a real shame (and by other culture I don't mean AKC--I mean the various groups who frequent this forum). It's clear to me that there's a lot of barely hidden rancor here.

 

J.

[Jeri Jessee]

In general, my (2) dogs get a bath once a week in the summer and especially Maggie after she comes home from her lesson at the ranch. I do this primarily to keep as much dirt as possible out of the house. But also because I'm kind of prissy that way.

 

I also vacuum out the truck and wipe down the interior every week. When the number of dead bugs on the front end exceeds my tolerance level, it goes to the car wash.

 

I admit I have a problem...

[Jo&Tex]

Of course, I'll bring goats milk soap to the Kingston trials. :D

I need testers and feed back for both my dog soap and my people soaps. I do not like scented products at all, altho I will break down and make a batch of lavender or patchouli because people ask for it. That stuff gets cured on racks out in the porch since the scents give me a headache. Patchouli smells like musty basement apartment to me but some people love it.

 

The Fuller's Earth does make a dog fluff out after a bath so have your brush handy. A healthy coat with lots of lift sheds dirt. All my dogs 'self clean' beautifully. I just have to constantly sweep up shed sand from where ever they sleep and shake out their crate blankets.

 

My dogs dont have baths unless they get skunked or find dead things. We have 2 ponds. One is freshwater and currently dry and the other is a manure tea pond fed by lines running through the sheep barn. The Teapot attracts wildlife and the sheep drink from it so it cant be too toxic but it looks stagnant and nasty. I've given up trying to keep my crew out of the Teapot. They dont suffer any ill effects but I've also noticed that they dont linger very long. They will swim all day in the freshwater pond.

[MaryP]

I bathe my dogs, but I couldn't tell you how often, because I've never really given it much thought. It's not something that I do often, though, and is pretty much on an as-neede basis. The thing that I'm most guilty of is not grooming them as often as I should. Then, they end up with mats that I I have to cute off. I do find that bathing them really helps with loosening up that dead underfur so that it can be more easily removed with a brush. I can tell you that Skittles has been getting lots of baths lately with a medicated shampoo because he has allergies, and the shampoo helps. I never realized just how soft his fur is (or, can be)!

 

Re: show dogs. In one of the agility classes that I used to be in with Ollie, there was a very nice woman in it with a springer that she showed in conformation. The dog was always impeccably groomed and trimmed. Whenever I want my dogs to stay put, I typically put them in a "down". One day we were standing around, I had put Ollie in a down, and she had told her dog to sit. After awhile, her dog would slip into a down, and she would immediately make her get back into a sit. I thought it was strange that she insisted the dog sit, especially if we were just standing around not doing anything. Then, finally, I learned that she didn't want her dog to lie down because she didn't want her white belly fur to touch the dirt/sand ground. I have no problem with people enjoying a clean dog, and choosing to bathe/groom them often. But, to never allow your dog to just lie down on the ground really threw me for a loop!

[terrecar]

Patchouli smells like musty basement apartment to me but some people love it.

 

Raises hand. I love the smell of patchouli! I guess it's a carry over from my hippie-wannabe days.

[frisbeegirl]

I have a grooming question.

 

How do you all handle matts?

 

I too do not bathe Keeva. Have a pond. As others have said goes to bed dirty wakes up bright eyed and literally bushy-tailed.

 

But, since summer she has been shedding, her coat is silky and shiny, but around her collar and sometimes under her ears she is getting some nasty matts.

 

My lab has short, coarse hair so no real experience with removing them.

 

Cutting seems to work best but I was wondering if I could make it a little easier using an oil to soften it ?

[PSmitty]

But it seems to have become common practice on this forum to direct barbs and sarcasm at the people who are part of the "other" culture, and that's a real shame (and by other culture I don't mean AKC--I mean the various groups who frequent this forum). It's clear to me that there's a lot of barely hidden rancor here.

 

J.

 

Julie and anyone else I offended, my apologies. I honestly didn't think what I posted was that big of a deal, but in seeing the responses, I can see where feathers would get ruffled. I never said, nor meant to imply, that anyone was "holier than thou", I was only referring to the type of comments and posts made here all the time regarding conformation dogs. That is, they are SO very different, that most would prefer the froo-froo show dogs actually become a separate breed from real border collies, etc, etc.

 

As for barely hidden rancor, yes, I've seen or sensed plenty of that here. Not my intention to further it, so once again, I apologize.

 

(now, back to the rescue section where I should stay! )

[geonni banner]

Raises hand. I love the smell of patchouli! I guess it's a carry over from my hippie-wannabe days.

Me too, 'cept I wasn't a wannabe. I love patchouli, though I can't stand other "loud" perfumy scents. I won't go down the detergent aisle in the store. The smell is so strong I feel like someone is sticking wires up my nose.

 

Dogs don't like it either. I used to be a groomer and I have seen many instances and heard of lots more, where a dog that's been slathered with some perfumy shampoo was met with a hostile reception from it's canine housemates when it returned home. Dogs believe their noses, not their eyes, and if you obliterate a dog's natural smell (which is normally quite pleasant) it can be viewed - at least momentarily - as a malodorous intruder.

 

I think that a big reason so many working dog people are down on the frou-frou aspects of dog showing is that it's all designed to hide some "fault" or other or else it's just show biz glitter. It's basically dishonest and does nothing to make the dog better in any real sense. Working dog people, like working dogs, don't like pointless nonsense.

 

Yeah, the AKC says dogs are supposed to excuse dogs with "foreign substances" in their coats, But I can't tell you how many times I've seen a judge pat a Collie and have a dusty chalk-cloud erupt from its fur, and then see him go on to give that dog the ribbon. And Collies are not nearly as "groomed" as Poodles or Terriers. I think breeding for looks is a crock, but if you have a certain kind of, say, Terrier coat as a desiderata, why not breed that coat instead of achieving it by ripping out the dog's undercoat and packing it full of chalk?

[terrecar]

To the poster who asked about mats, I haven't tried oil, but bathing/washing before mat removal is not advised, as water tightens the mat. Oster makes a really good mat remover that replaced the old spikes-set-in-wood type that was used prior to its debut. I have been able to brush out any mats behind Hannah's ears using a pin brush, or for a particularly stubborn one, a slicker (in both cases starting at the bottom of the mat). I sort of pull them apart once they are loosened up by the brush. Then brush again. I guess if you don't like brushing/grooming (I do), then all this sounds like a lot of trouble.

[WildFlower]

How do you all handle matts?

 

I generally end up cutting them out. Sometimes if they are not too tangley I can cut them in half and work/brush the rest of it out. My dogs don't get these very often (2 are smooth coats) but my mom's little girl Holly gets them often.

[terrecar]

I generally end up cutting them out. Sometimes if they are not too tangley I can cut them in half and work/brush the rest of it out. My dogs don't get these very often (2 are smooth coats) but my mom's little girl Holly gets them often.

 

That is what I would do now if I couldn't work one out with brushing/pulling apart.

[Root Beer]

If I want to smell something nice I'll spray it on myself, not my dogs.

 

I bathe my dogs. Not terribly often. Usually once or twice a year. I love it when they are fresh and soft after a shower.

 

Maddie got the most showers because she frequently found something foul to roll in - usually coating her neck and shoulders in stinking gunk. Into the shower she would go! She probably got showered once a month or more, less in the winter.

 

I love the smell of our dog's shampoo. I wouldn't say it is "perfumed" but it has a nice shamoo-ey scent.

 

One day, several years ago, I was getting ready to leave for work on a day when I worked in the late afternoon/evening, and the dogs had been out. Maddie found something to roll in, so skirt and all (on me), I gave her a quick shower!! I could stay pretty dry while I did a quick shower on her.

 

Later that evening, one of my volunteers said, "I LOVE the scent you are wearing! What is that?" I thought for a second. I don't really use any scents anymore. Then I realized it was the scent of the dog shampoo!! She and I both got a laugh out of that, but it really is a nice scent!!

 

The dogs don't love it, but it fades off of them within a day or so.

[terrecar]

Me too, 'cept I wasn't a wannabe.

 

Yeah, I'm not quite that old

[gcv-border]

Re: dealing with mats.

 

First, it is to be expected that water, then movement (friction) of the hairs against each other produce mats. That is how one felts natural fibers. The mats are a form of dog fiber felt.

 

I prefer to just cut them out. Usually they are small enough (behind the ears) and in a location where the missing hair is not even noticed since the remaining hair covers over the cut area. OR they may be larger (groin area or in the mudflaps) and their removal in the summer, IMHO, contributes to a cooler belly. Also, for my dog, the removal of a mudflap mat (if I only cut out the mat and no surrounding hair) is easily disguised by the remaining hair. You never know it has been cut.

 

Cutting out mats is faster (I know my dog appreciates me not continually fussing over him to comb out a mat), and it will be longer before a mat appears in the same place since the short hair needs time to grow out to a length sufficient to mat. Despite my best intentions to do a better job brushing the areas where my dog mats, I usually don't get to it and so I have to cut out the mats (but only once or twice a year since he is not a heavily coated dog except for the mudflap area.)

 

If you have a heavily-coated dog, you will probably get more mats if you do not brush more regularly.

 

Jovi

[Carson Crazies]

Matts? I whack em out whenever I find one with a pair of scissors. Usually I only find matts behind the ears on the rough coated border collies. Ok, actually I only ever find matts on Linc specifically. His little ear hairs are so downy soft. I just snip em out, and move on. If the dog isn't inclined to sit still, or if the matt is close to the body I shave it with my Andis clippers.

 

As to the white coat thing... imagine my embarrassment as I walk to the post with my blindingly white dog atop his stilts for legs. Why yes, I *can* hear the tittering and comments from behind me. Not to worry though... he speaks for himself (and I'm not really embarrassed... more amused than anything).

 

I'm pretty sure that the white is a direct result of the dirt on my dogs jumping off of the dogs and into my carpet, furniture, and bed. My dogs get as dirty as the rest of em... and I bathe them if they're stinky as I don't want stinky hogmog dog butts in my face while I'm sleeping.

 

This is a very YOUNG Nicky picture (about a year and a half) but it's clear enough. Photo by Robin French: