Retraining weave poles?

[ChantalB]

I'm unhappy with judes weaves. They used to be awesome but they deteriorated along the way I trained it with a modified 2x2 (read: I was lazy to watch the video, it bored me so I figured it out on my own after fast forwarding through ) it worked up only we took a 2 months break, then they fell apart. Now I'm micro managing it, and I hate micro managing. I am for total obstacle independence and this annoys me.

 

So suggestions? Would it screw him up if I restarted from scratch? Watch the 2x2 for real this time and follow the 12 day plan to a T..

 

Also could someone tell me about guide wires. How they work, are they good? It seems like they could really help drive in a dog who already knows how to weave. But create dependence in a dog who doesn't know how..

[gcv-border]

OK, I am not an expert in weave training i.e. I have only trained one way - using channel weaves, But my dog has excellent weaves and is very good with finding the entrance from most angles.

 

I know A LOT of people who like the 2X2 weave training. Since I like to train my dog at full speed when possible, I felt that the 2X2 training did not fit in with my preferred style of training.

 

FWIW, I have not heard much good about guide wire training. I guess I do not see how they would create drive in the weave performance.

 

I do not think that you would mess up your dog by retraining. A lot of people will retrain an obstacle when they are not happy with their dog's performance on that obstacle.

 

Jovi

[TrulyReady]

I just finished training my almost 14 month old puppy using the 2x2 method and was extreamly pleased with the results. I would highly recommend it to anyone with a high toy drive dog. I will admit I was extreamly anal about it, I think I watched the first part of the video (from one set of 2x2's to 6 poles) at least 4 times, every few days I would watch it again to make sure I wasn't missing a step, or hadn't overlooked anything. I also printed out the workbook and took notes on the pages of what her weak points were on the arc etc so I was totally sure I wasn't letting her shape me into baby-sitting her in the poles. We are still a work in progress for sure but my baby dog can make weave entries my other two dogs couldn't dream of doing and seems to have a more firm understanding of the criteria of weave poles then my other two (one taught by channels one by weave-o-matics). I was actually blown away at the point of going from 6 to 12 poles, it just seemed to happen all at once and she immediatly knew she had to finish all 12 no matter where I was in relation to the poles. I would suggest trying from the beginning and really work the arc, I wouldn't worry about the "12 days" part, I wouldn't set a goal to be done, I would keep in my head that I'm going to work at every angel, front cross, rear cross, me running, me stopped, me next to the poles, me 20 feet away etc etc etc at EVERY phase, even with just one set of 2x2's until you get your consistant 80% success rate at each phase before moving on.

My older dog (who is an older rescue) I let alot of stuff slide in his weave pole training and his performance is VERY hit or miss, and he can't wrap his brain around the 2x2 method, so I vowed with my baby dog I was going to set my criteria and stick to it! I know it's really paid off for me, I hope it works for your pup also! I don't think 2x2's is the best method for EVERY dog though, but if you know you were the factor in the initial training not being clear enough then I would give it another shot!

[brndlbc]

I don't know anyone who has trained weave poles to a high level of proficiency regardless of method that hasn't had to back up some point in the training even if it was for just a single lesson. My young dog has pretty decent weave pole performance (video in the Driving Ahead thread) nice footwork and independent entries but we are always tweaking/backing up the training as I don't think we are at where we could be in terms of execution. Going back in training is sometimes a great way to go forwards in progress.

[rushdoggie]

I used both (2x2 and channel) and had awesome weaves from any angle in about 6 weeks. I think the 2x2 has a benefit of teaching an understanding about entries and what he is actually doing, and channels promote speed and muscle memory for footwork.

 

He has not seen/done weaves in a while due to being lame (and no one is sure why hes lame) so we will see what happens if he ever is able to weave again.

[alligande]

I have used guide fences, I used plastic coated wire fencing and bent it from pole to pole with my older dog, he did know how to weave but through bad training had no speed but lots accuracy, with the fencing in place he figured out he could not go wrong no matter how fast he went to get the cheese... Gradually I peeled back the wire and if he popped I would backup once he was comfortable at that stage I would remove another section.

 

I tried channel weaves at a training facility but they just confused him. There is a proviso Brody is not the worlds best agility dog but the guides did at least help him weave competently but they are not going to wow anyone, but I could say that about the rest of his performance as well, it is why he only comes to trials on vero special occasions.

[SS Cressa]

Both of my dogs were trained on channel weaves and guide wire. I used the guid wire as a safety measure.

For example a couple ways i used the guide wire...

1. I used it to keep preasure on the opposite side of the weaves at the beginning. I could keep pressure on the right side and the wires on the left side would help keep them in.

 

2nd way. When they have a better understanding of the weaves but are having issues in one spot i might put a wire there to keep them in or help them out.

 

I understand the idea behind the 2x2 method but i dont get the actual practice of it. I did attempt the 2x2 method with Troy at one point to expand on the entries to the weaves and ended up totally confusing him. Before trying the 2x2 Troy was able to weaves all 12 poles. After focusing on the 2x2 method he was having issue with doing 6poles.

[Cyberdog]

Rocket and I just got done with a very frustrating session on the weave poles. So this seemed like a good thread to vent... GOD DAMN YOU WEAVE POLES!!! Shakes fist*

 

Every time a straighten just ONE of the middle weaves she pops out in the middle. They are so close to being straight anyway; I just want to pull my hair out. We use the bent weaves and slowly straighten. I tried them channeled today with the same results. As soon as two poles line up she pops out. Maybe I'll put them by a wall so she cant pop out on the left? Ugh.

[ChantalB]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I've decided to not retrain them until after regionAls, so I'm currently raking my brains, the Internet, magazines for drills. Had a nice session today on 4 poles. I have 3 sets of 4 poles. 6 was too long for my jeep. Fav drills?

 

Minute we get back from reginAls ( where we entered just for fun Nd the experience) it's 2x2 retrain time! (i just dont want to confuse him) Any tips on things that people had trouble with that the DVD might not be clear about? Watching how-tO videos annoy me when they Are too long, over a minute..

[Root Beer]

I went through an interesting weave training process with Tessa. The center where I train uses guide wires, so she had to be able to do guide wires because sometimes they are on the weaves at class. She was afraid of them at first, so I couldn't start her on the wires.

 

I used a 2 X 2 at first and progressed to two 2X2's. After she was doing 2, I straightened them, and she learned to do the two in a row. And then we moved to a set of six straight poles. Once she could weave six straight poles, I introduced her to weaving with wires. Since she understood the poles, it made it easier for her to understand the wires.

 

Then we used the wires to "polish off" her understanding of the weaves and she started weaving sets of 12 poles. The wires were faded very quickly for her.

 

She weaves very reliably, but she doesn't get any speed in the weaves, so now we are using a set of weave-o-matics to teach her to drive through. She's really enjoying that.

 

I am very happy with her weaves. She really understands the behavior and I suspect she is going to be flying through those poles by the end of summer.

[SS Cressa]

Careful with the weave o matics. I hear they can do serious damage to the dogs shoulders.

[SS Cressa]

 

Every time a straighten just ONE of the middle weaves she pops out in the middle. They are so close to being straight anyway; I just want to pull my hair out. We use the bent weaves and slowly straighten. I tried them channeled today with the same results. As soon as two poles line up she pops out. Maybe I'll put them by a wall so she cant pop out on the left? Ugh.

 

That is when i would use the guide wires to keep them in or set up an x pen.

[Root Beer]

Careful with the weave o matics. I hear they can do serious damage to the dogs shoulders.

 

From what? Too many repetitions? The footwork? Or from slamming into the poles (esp. in the case of a fast, powerful dog)? Something else?

[SS Cressa]

I believe from slamming into the poles and possible teaching the dog to using their shoulder to push the poles. If you get clean run they had an article about it.

[Root Beer]

I believe from slamming into the poles and possible teaching the dog to using their shoulder to push the poles. If you get clean run they had an article about it.

 

I'm not overly concerned about that in Tessa's case. She already knows how to weave and is only using the wam's to learn to weave with speed, and how to move her feet. She won't be using them for long, and won't really have the opportunity to start pushing the poles.

 

I can see that being a bit potential problem for a dog that is actually learning to weave on the wam's.

 

Of course if I see her starting to push poles, we will move back to upright poles with wires. By that point, she should be ready to transfer the speed and footwork to that scenario. She is probably going to be ready to do that pretty quickly, in any case.

 

But I do appreciate the heads up, and will keep an eye out for any interaction between shoulders and poles.

[gcv-border]

Rocket and I just got done with a very frustrating session on the weave poles. So this seemed like a good thread to vent... GOD DAMN YOU WEAVE POLES!!! Shakes fist*

 

Every time a straighten just ONE of the middle weaves she pops out in the middle. They are so close to being straight anyway; I just want to pull my hair out. We use the bent weaves and slowly straighten. I tried them channeled today with the same results. As soon as two poles line up she pops out. Maybe I'll put them by a wall so she cant pop out on the left? Ugh.

How are you training your weaves? WAMs, channels, 2X2s? I am thinking you are using WAMs (bent weaves??) by your phrasing 'straighten out', but I am not sure.

 

Regardless of the method, I think it is important to change by very small increments. And I mean - VERY SMALL. IMHO, if the dog pops out as you have described, the change has been too large - for that dog! Each dog has a different level of tolerance - one dog may tolerate a change of 2 inches, whereas another dog may break their performance criteria with a 1 inch change. With the second dog, the incremental change will have to be less than 1 inch.

 

I don't think you have to take such a drastic step as to put them by a wall. Just back up to the point where she has a successful weave performance, then start straightening the poles (and straightening one or 2 middle poles is a good place to start), but straighten in small, small increments. Your dog will tell you when you are changing the angle of the poles too much.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi