BabyLucky Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 We've made a very large desicion for Gizmo. Instead of staying with us, he'll be living at my grandparents. It really is the best one for him. He'll still be our dog, he'll just be living at his house. He can get him his shots (We don't have the money for that) But we'll be buying his food, paying for other vet visits, things like that, my grandpa will just provide the room. I, my brother and my father are all allergic to him, and honestly, he'd enjoy life much more there. My grandpa has a lawn, cats to chase, birds to jump at, and a field to run in. My grandpa also really, really likes him and has thought seriously about getting a dog after we found Gizmo. He will be an outside dog there, so no serious need for potty training. He'll have a nice dog house and dog run, and a slide. He loves slides. My grandpa will be able to train him properly, and spend plenty of time with him. We'll miss him here, but we can visit him whenever we want. I will keep you guys updated if you want, but I wont be around as near as much to see what goes on with him. Though, I'm sure my grandpa will keep me updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Please be sure to keep him on heartworm preventive if he's going to be an outside dog. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Best of luck to Gizmo and all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Maybe some people do not agree with me here, but a dog should not live tied up outside 24/7 every day of the year. I understand working dogs are different but for a pet dog to just sit on a chain or a trolley is, in my opinion cruel. Especially for such an active and intelligent breed. My border collie came from a home where he lived every day in a small pen outside. Every so often they would let him out to run but that was his whole life. Definitely not the life for a border collie. This is a breed that wants to be with their people, interacting with them. Being left alone almost all the time with no mental stimulation is not fair to him. You also have to consider the weather and other animals that can wander into the yard and harm him. Outside dogs can also develop unwanted behavioral problems and be difficult to integrate into a home later in life (if your grandpa needs to give him up someday ) I would really reconsider finding a home where Gizmo can be with an active person going for daily walks, hikes, training, etc. He will live another 10+ years and should have an owner who is willing to make him apart of their lives for that entire time. I say all of this as I am an active donor to Dogs Deserve Better, a rescue group devoted to helping find suitable homes for chained and penned dogs. It breaks my heart to see dogs relegated to the yard when there are suitable homes for them. http://www.dogsdeservebetter.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 JMO, but... I would really rethink the decision for Gizmo to be a outside dog at your Grandfather's home. As others have pointed out, Border Collies are much more people-interactive than the average dog. A Border Collie that spends large blocks of time in a run (or even a big yard) is apt to develop all sorts of behavioral problems like pacing and habitual barking, and other stereotypical behaviors like spinning or self-mutilation. Unlike some kenneled working sheepdogs who get regular stimulation for their brains and bodies from working stock, a Border Collie that spends a lot of time alone and confined is likely to become bored, unhappy, even neurotic. He very likely will not be well-socialized to lots of different kinds of people and dogs. So what happens if your grandfather becomes ill and must be hospitalized long term, or (God forbid) passes away? If Gizmo is living the life you describe you will be looking at trying to re-home a dog that is under socialized, un-housebroken, and very likely shy of strangers. It will take a long time and at a time when you may be very busy helping to manage your grandfather's affairs. The dog will not be attractive to the average pet-owner and you could end up having to put him down. Forgive me, but if you cannot afford basic shots for Gizmo how will you be able to pick up the rest of his vet expenses - most of which will be more costly than a few shots? There is, as Julie says, heartworm preventative and then there's flea meds., periodic fecal exams and many other things that can easily add up to hundreds of dollars a year - and that's if he doesn't get sick or injured. Gizmo is young, cute and very place-able now. Wouldn't it be better to give him a chance with a family or individual who will integrate him into their life? A chance to be a part of a household where he can be inside and get the attention he needs to be well-adjusted and happy long-term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I don't mean to sound blunt, but based on everything you have said he should be adopted out to a home with the time and resources to care for him. Left in a yard alone all day is a bad situation for a Border Collie. I can almost guarantee he will become bored and destructive. At this age he can still be housebroken quite easily with consistent training. Puppies are easy to place while young adults are very difficult to find new homes for, even ones with good training that have lived inside, been socialized and housebroken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I agree with what everyone else has said here. I truly feel you are trying your very best to work this out but I don't think that what you have proposed here will be good for Gizmo and his future, at all. I have to agree with those who have pointed out time and again that a young dog like Gizmo has a high likelihood of getting an excellent home through a reputable Border Collie rescue organization but the older he gets, the more entrenched bad habits will be, and the harder it will be for him to find a home that will truly care and be able to care for him properly. I hope your family members are willing to read this advice and put Gizmo's welfare and future first. Very best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Would you consider seeing if there is a good rescue that would take him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 This is repetitive, but I agree with the other posters. When I read this yesterday at work, I thought, "Oh, that poor dog!" If he lives at your grandfather's house, he won't be your dog. That's a nice story to tell yourself - but he won't be your dog. He'll be your grandfather's dog. And the thought of a young baby staying outside all day, not being welcomed into his home... it just sounds sad. You will absolutely miss Gizmo if he goes elsewhere, but that will ease and you'll know you did the right thing for him. So many people would love a young puppy, and care for him correctly. Let him get that. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 And the thought of a young baby staying outside all day, not being welcomed into his home... it just sounds sad. I have to agree with this 100%. All I could think reading the OP, was yes, they are trying hard to do what is right but that poor puppy. So young and incredibly adoptable, so full of potential to be outside 24 hours a day on a trolley. A baby with so much ability to learn and lead a great life with an active, involved home. Please reconsider this placement for Gizmo's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ditto, ditto, ditto. Right now you have the chance to save this puppy or ruin this puppy. The window of opportunity is small, though. Do the right thing and rehome this puppy to someone who has the time, desire, and ability to train him and interact with him properly. Surrendering him to a reputable border collie rescue would be the easiest, since they will do all the work to find the proper home for him and be a safety net for him should something go wrong. Do the right thing for this puppy and let him go. Please. Don't let all the hard work you did to save him from certain death as a newborn be all for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I got my Cheyenne at 10 days old. I know what you went through to keep Gizmo alive. And I know the bond that developed. I had every intention of rehoming her as soon as she was old enough, mainly because I had just lost a beloved dog quite suddenly when he was only 7. But I kept her. She was never around other dogs as I only had my cat. I did not know, at the time, the importance of socializing. At 4 mos. she went on the truck with me (18wheeler) and we had many adventures. She was, as a result, very friendly to other adults, but couldn't stand children. Had no use for other dogs, in fact was down right rude to them. I loved that dog ridiculously. And while she had a good life, I could see the mistakes I made with her in her reactions to certain things. Her one saving grace was the fact that I had taught her bite inhibition very, very young. She NEVER had an opportunity with other litter mates to know a bite could stop an annoyance. Had this not been the case, she would have had several bite occurrences. What Gizmo desperately needs right now is dog and people(of all ages) socialization. Cheyenne was a little dog and I managed her life so she was not put in situations that made her nervous. Gizmo will be much larger and the situations more dire. Please, look beyond his cuteness, and his puppiness. In 8 mos., he will be 95% of his adult height and weight. He will go through the "teen phase" that even with the best of early training, will drive a person nuts. As others have said, his best chance right now is with a reputable rescue that will put him in a foster home to recieve the training and socialization he needs. If not, you will end up with a dog like my Holly. Unadoptable. Luckily, she landed at my house and with LOTS of work, was able to live out her days here. But, landing in such a place is very low odds. The odds are more that he will simply be PTS, because he will become a dog that knows no boundries, manners, or what it's like to be "normal". PLEASE, let your family members read all of these posts. And let them read with the understanding that a lot of us have seen the results of the situation you are putting Gizmo in. We must be good stewards of the animals we have domesticated. And that means doing what is best for them, not what will make us "feel better". I know you think that this cute and playful puppy will not become the monster I have described, and that he is just too sweet to ever become mean. But he will. And you will learn a very valuable lesson. But it will most likely be at the loss of Gizmo's life. I am so sorry you are in this position at such a young age. God be with you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Is there anyone out in Utah or the west that could help them out? Perhaps if someone could step up and really take the dog that would help. Hopefully she hasn't already left the boards! jennifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady's mom Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Just here to reinforce everything that's been said and to add that you shouldn't take anything said negatively. The people who are apart o this board (except me since I'm still learning, too) are very, very wise and as equally passionate about this breed. I know it may seem overwhelming right now since it may seem like everything you do illicits a reaction, but they're here to do the best they can for this young puppy and to help you make the best decision as possible. You'e been given a wonderful opportunity/experience to raise this puppy as far as you have, but if you can't adequately take care of it financially and emotionally, it's probably time to let him go to a home that can. And maybe you can work out a deal with his new forever home to visit every once in a while. But just from following this ordeal, I'd say you need to really, truly think about it and not doing what's convenient. You're young, and I totally know how it feels to be 14 and want a dog like a border collie so badly it hurts. But you're only a...freshman/sophmore and in a few years your life is going to change immensely. You won't have the time or paitence to spend with any dog much less help take care of one out at your grandpa's (if you're even going to school locally). So, really truly think about this and do what's fair to the pup, not necessarily what is convenient for your heart. And just remember the right choice is rarely the easiest choice. I wish you so, so, so much luck in navigating this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ditto, ditto, ditto. Right now you have the chance to save this puppy or ruin this puppy. The window of opportunity is small, though. Do the right thing and rehome this puppy to someone who has the time, desire, and ability to train him and interact with him properly. Surrendering him to a reputable border collie rescue would be the easiest, since they will do all the work to find the proper home for him and be a safety net for him should something go wrong. Do the right thing for this puppy and let him go. Please. Don't let all the hard work you did to save him from certain death as a newborn be all for naught. I just wanted to post this again. I couldn't have said it better, so I won't try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Why does your grandfather want a dog? What sort of things does your grandfather plan to do with a dog that lives outside? Is there a reason why he won't let a dog in the house? And when did you, your brother & your father suddenly become allergic to the puppy....? PLEASE rethink this plan. It is not in Gizmo's best interest and I daresay your family is being selfish. He deserves to be placed in a home where he will get lots of love, attention, exercise & training. He already had a rough start to life, why make things worse by dooming him to a life of solitude outdoors away from the structure & companionship he needs? Monthly heartworm preventative is going to be @ $6/month. Flea & tick preventative is about $15/month. A *good* dog food (ie: not a giant bag of 'Ol Roy) will cost you around $30/month. Going to the vet for yearly vaccinations and bloodwork is in the neighborhood of $200 or more, depending on your area. He needs to be regularly groomed (bathed, brushed, nails trimmed, teeth brushed). Is your grandfather going to do that? Are you guys prepared for these CONSTANT ongoing expenses that are required for the remainder of Gizmo's life? And as has been mentioned, what if something happens to your grandfather? Please contact a reputable BC rescue. You have worked hard to raise him up to this point, now it is time to let him go to someone with more resources than yourself. It's the responsible thing to do. Tell your grandfather that there are likely many other options for him to open his home to a dog in need. I'm sure that he could probably find a dog who is already used to living outside that needs to be rehomed for whatever reason. Although I don't believe it's a good life for any dog to be tied or penned outside by themselves all day without any human interaction, I can accept it a bit more for a dog who has always lived that way and doesn't seem to have any problem. That said, our shelter has re-homed MANY dogs who were "outside only" dogs and they do spectacularly with the transition to living in the house. Frankly, I feel very strongly that if you are going to have an outdoor-only dog, you shouldn't have one at all -- At least in situations where it's not a working farm and people spend more time outside than inside and the dog has an actual job. Even then, after working all day I think it's only right to let the dog sleep in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack & Co. Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ditto, ditto, ditto. Right now you have the chance to save this puppy or ruin this puppy. The window of opportunity is small, though. Do the right thing and rehome this puppy to someone who has the time, desire, and ability to train him and interact with him properly. Surrendering him to a reputable border collie rescue would be the easiest, since they will do all the work to find the proper home for him and be a safety net for him should something go wrong. Do the right thing for this puppy and let him go. Please. Don't let all the hard work you did to save him from certain death as a newborn be all for naught. Babylucky, please read MaryP's reply! She speaks with the voice of experience as a bc rescuer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 We've made a very large desicion for Gizmo. Instead of staying with us, he'll be living at my grandparents. It really is the best one for him. He'll still be our dog, he'll just be living at his house. He can get him his shots (We don't have the money for that) But we'll be buying his food, paying for other vet visits, things like that, my grandpa will just provide the room. I, my brother and my father are all allergic to him, and honestly, he'd enjoy life much more there. My grandpa has a lawn, cats to chase, birds to jump at, and a field to run in. My grandpa also really, really likes him and has thought seriously about getting a dog after we found Gizmo. He will be an outside dog there, so no serious need for potty training. He'll have a nice dog house and dog run, and a slide. He loves slides. My grandpa will be able to train him properly, and spend plenty of time with him. We'll miss him here, but we can visit him whenever we want. I will keep you guys updated if you want, but I wont be around as near as much to see what goes on with him. Though, I'm sure my grandpa will keep me updated. Well, a dog run to me means a kennel with a caged rectangular area for the dog to "run" back and forth, and equals a "room" that needs to be cleaned, and Gizmo will, if bored, quickly dig his way out of it.. but maybe it is a trolly like the others thought... If this is where he has to go, here's hoping that Grandpa will bring him into the house and make him his constant companion. (Potty training is not that hard) BCs need to be with people. If your family has no experience with the breed and can't give the pup that kind of commitment, then yes, what the others are saying is right. Let the pup go to a better home. Keep in mind that chances are this pup may well soon demonstrate some kind of herding ability because his mother was obviously a working dog, so those cats are going to be in trouble! If Grandpa loves his cats, he's not going to be pleased... You've done a hero's job for the pup so far, especially in navigating all of the rough waters with your family dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Baby Lucky, please please listen to all that has been written here. I will not reiterate, as it has all been well-spoken. But I will suggest this: If you are willing to let him go to a rescue group where he can find a truly appropriate home, I will ask Arizona Border Collie Rescue if we can take him in. He would be soooooo easy to adopt out at this point. If we took him, we would guarantee we would find for him a great home where he will be socialized, trained, and treated very well. If you allow him to go to your Grandfather, be penned and not even potty trained, you will turn him into an unhappy dog that NO one would want. This is not a maybe, it's a sure thing. Please don't do this. Just let me know and I will find out if we can take him. Someone (maybe even I) may even be able to pick him up from where you live and bring him to AZ. Please consider this. D'Elle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyLucky Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why does your grandfather want a dog? What sort of things does your grandfather plan to do with a dog that lives outside? Is there a reason why he won't let a dog in the house? And when did you, your brother & your father suddenly become allergic to the puppy....? PLEASE rethink this plan. It is not in Gizmo's best interest and I daresay your family is being selfish. He deserves to be placed in a home where he will get lots of love, attention, exercise & training. He already had a rough start to life, why make things worse by dooming him to a life of solitude outdoors away from the structure & companionship he needs? Monthly heartworm preventative is going to be @ $6/month. Flea & tick preventative is about $15/month. A *good* dog food (ie: not a giant bag of 'Ol Roy) will cost you around $30/month. Going to the vet for yearly vaccinations and bloodwork is in the neighborhood of $200 or more, depending on your area. He needs to be regularly groomed (bathed, brushed, nails trimmed, teeth brushed). Is your grandfather going to do that? Are you guys prepared for these CONSTANT ongoing expenses that are required for the remainder of Gizmo's life? And as has been mentioned, what if something happens to your grandfather? Please contact a reputable BC rescue. You have worked hard to raise him up to this point, now it is time to let him go to someone with more resources than yourself. It's the responsible thing to do. Tell your grandfather that there are likely many other options for him to open his home to a dog in need. I'm sure that he could probably find a dog who is already used to living outside that needs to be rehomed for whatever reason. Although I don't believe it's a good life for any dog to be tied or penned outside by themselves all day without any human interaction, I can accept it a bit more for a dog who has always lived that way and doesn't seem to have any problem. That said, our shelter has re-homed MANY dogs who were "outside only" dogs and they do spectacularly with the transition to living in the house. Frankly, I feel very strongly that if you are going to have an outdoor-only dog, you shouldn't have one at all -- At least in situations where it's not a working farm and people spend more time outside than inside and the dog has an actual job. Even then, after working all day I think it's only right to let the dog sleep in the house. Okay. I'm sorry, all this is really irritating me. We've made a desicion, he will be staying with my grandfather. Do you really think that I'd let him go to a home that wouldn't give him the best in life? He gets hours of daily interaction there. My grandfather sits on the porch and plays with him. He brings him out to visit the horses and run around out in his back field. I mean it is really irritating me. We've always been allergic to the dander from furry dogs. We have a hypoallergenic dog, a HAIRY dog. He wants the dog because he likes dogs. He has personally trained dozens of dogs and knows what he's doing. He plans on having him be a bird dog, he has a friend that's BC is a bird dog, he does amazing at it, and he's a great dog. I am not going to let him go to a strangers home when my grandfather is perfectly able to care for him and give him an amazing life. I hate it that you guys think he is incapable of caring for Gizmo. He has wanted another dog for a long time, since his last one had to be put down five years ago. He can't bring Gizmo into his house, my very clean freak hypochondriac aunt would be mean to him, and since she has some leg disease that causes constant infection and it's causing her bones to break and crack, she can't have a dog in the house trying to play with her. If my grandpa were to fall ill, I have a perfectly capable uncle who has also trained many dogs and who will be able to spend tons of time with him. I hate that you think I would let him go to an incapable home. We've choosen very carefully, and how dare you call us selfish, my grandpa wants a dog, we have a dog that can be given to him. Alex and his girlfriend had told me that we would be keeping the dog, this past weekend when he went to my grandfathers home, my dad said we were giving him to him, my grandpa thinks he's going to be going back to Alex when he moves out. I hate how all of you think he'd be outside all day with no interaction, we are betterr than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 We've choosen very carefully, and how dare you call us selfish, my grandpa wants a dog, we have a dog that can be given to him. Alex and his girlfriend had told me that we would be keeping the dog, this past weekend when he went to my grandfathers home, my dad said we were giving him to him, my grandpa thinks he's going to be going back to Alex when he moves out. I'm not following. So your brother who, from your accounts, has been completely irresponsible with this puppy leaving all the care to his 14 year old sister is going to take Gizmo back at some point? When? Where will your brother be living that an outdoor, not housebroken dog will get the attention and care he needs? Will your brother be able to provide that attention and care consistently at that time, since it doesn't sound like he was able to do so up to now? Obviously, your family will do as you feel is best. Gizmo's fate is in your hands, not ours. But that doesn't mean everyone here understands how this decision was was arrived at "very carefully" or that it is going to work out well for the puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Instead of being irritated consider that all the people who posted here cared enough about Gizmo to make suggestions that they thought would help him find a great home. Now that you have expanded on the information provided, we might have a different view of the situation, though I still don't quite understand that last part. Does your grandfather think the dog is going to be his or that Gizmo will go with Alex when Alex moves out? Not that it really matters I guess, but you can see how people can become confused. I wish Gizmo the best of luck. And I hope your grandfather enjoys him. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyLucky Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I'm not following. So your brother who, from your accounts, has been completely irresponsible with this puppy leaving all the care to his 14 year old sister is going to take Gizmo back at some point? When? Where will your brother be living that an outdoor, not housebroken dog will get the attention and care he needs? Will your brother be able to provide that attention and care consistently at that time, since it doesn't sound like he was able to do so up to now? Obviously, your family will do as you feel is best. Gizmo's fate is in your hands, not ours. But that doesn't mean everyone here understands how this decision was was arrived at "very carefully" or that it is going to work out well for the puppy. That's what my grandpa thinks. And apparently that's what Alex thinks. It would be best for Gizmo to stay with my grandpa, but, alas, if he's going to give him to Alex we can't tell him no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Thanks for clarifying. Hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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