Second Guessing

[Heather Rae]

After baby sitting a puppy for a week and a half I'm having serious doubts about things.

 

I was highly stressed the whole time and I'm not particularly easy to stress out. I've run whole a preschool, with 24 children and was less stressed than I was with one sweet little puppy.

 

The puppy was extremely mouthy, especially when excited. I did the whole, "Ow!" and then stopped playing, but then she proceeded to bite at my pants and legs, so then I started leaving the room when she bit me, which turned into crying and howling for quite a while afterward and typically when I came back she had peed on the floor. Immediately she began to bite out excitement of seeing me again. When it came to crating it was intense crying, but usually only five to ten minutes other times it was for twenty or more minutes. She fought the leash and I tried to get her used to it by letting her wear it while she was playing or following me, then by following her around while I held the leash, but any time I had to restrain her she threw quite a fit, like stopping her from running into the street. Potty training was proving to quite tiring. Often we would go out and everything would distract her from the wind blowing a leaf or a rock just sitting on the floor. So she wouldn't go potty very often, and when she did go out side I tried to praise her, give her a treat or play with her but she would turn away from me and ignore me. She liked toys but she seemed to get bored with them very easily and proceeded to try to bit or dig anything she could even with my efforts to get her back into the toy.

 

I'm not blaming her for this, despite all my reading I felt I was doing something wrong the whole time, like I was missing something. It was the least fun I ever had despite it being something I wanted for a long time.

 

I just felt unprepared and frustrated and wondered how anyone could do deal with that. I've dealt with other puppies and I don't remember them being such a pain although none were that young and none were border collies.

 

So I'm second guessing myself.

 

Is this puppy just abnormal or is it me?

Is this typical of border collie puppies?

If it is, is a border collie puppy for me, should I consider and older dog?

Should I just consider a whole other breed?

Should I just forget owning a real dog and just enjoy them in theory?

[mbc1963]

I teach 8th grade, so experience a degree of frustration from time to time, and have a normal-to-high amount of patience. However, when it came time to get a dog, I had no dobut that I wanted an adult. Maybe when I'm older and retired and have endless time, I'll want to potty-train and bite-train and leash-train and... ::Sigh:: I'm getting tired even thinking about it.

 

If it doesn't feel fun, and if it isn't at all enjoyable - why push the issue?

 

Mary

[Carlasl]

Well I got Maya at 10 wks and I don't think she ever acted the way you are describing, She rarely cried in the crate, had no problem going in, potty training accidents were all my fault (too much freedom), I don't really remember mouthing being a huge deal (able to redirect it to a toy easily and she always had a pretty soft mouth and responded well to a loud "ouch). She always had great focus and was very toy and food motivated at a young age. She was still a puppy and did puppy things, but honestly I think the worst thing she did was chew on the legs of my kitchen table when she was tethered to me.

 

If it were my pup the excitability and mouthing would have been ended with a correction and maybe some down time in a crate with a peanut butter filled kong....As well as the pottying thing, if you aren't going to potty (On leash) then you go back in the crate to try again in 15min....after you potty then you can have off leash time.

 

 

How old is this pup and how early was she removed from her litter? Wondering if she was taken a little early and didn't learn some of the social skills a mom and litter mates can teach.

[Sue R]

Well, some of this sounded like fairly typical puppy behavior but perhaps to a degree that many of us don't see. Remember, it's not just the puppy but also the environment that the puppy has been in. It's hard to generalize from one pup to an entire breed (or an entire age bracket) even when some things are not unusual in themselves.

 

I'd put it this way - if you have doubts, wait and see. Waiting won't hurt a thing and might prevent you from getting involved in something that you might not enjoy like you'd hoped. Watch for additional opportunities to familiarize yourself with the breed and especially pups. Maybe volunteering for a rescue - they are always looking for good foster homes and people to help with dogs and pups.

 

And that brings up the other point I'd like to make - have you considered an older pup/adolescent/adult from a reputable rescue? Getting a little pup is always a gamble - even meeting the parents and the pup in its home, does not guarantee anything (although it ups your chances of getting what you'd like). But then there is all the puppy stuff - housebreaking, teething, chewing, nipping, destruction, middle-of-the-night potty trips, crate-training, leash-training, etc.

 

When you get an animal from a reputable rescue, you are often getting a known quantity, as that animal has been fostered and often had quite a bit of basic training - housebreaking, leash-training, crate-training, basic manners, and so on. It's a thought. It's what I'd be doing if I was looking for a companion/pet/sports dog.

 

Best wishes!

[Root Beer]

FWIW, not all Border Collie puppies are like that. Speedy was nothing like that. He did some mouthing as a puppy, but I would just say "kisses kisses" in a happy voice and he would give kisses instead. Eventually, he stopped mouthing and gave kisses instead. The one and only time he ever made a peep in his crate, which he slept in every night, he was sick and was trying to let me know.

 

He did do puppy things - he chewed and I had to watch him carefully when he was a baby to make sure I saw when he needed to potty. He had more energy than I knew what to do with at the time. But he was nothing like the puppy that you describe.

 

My point is that puppies can be as different from one another as individual adults can be. Looking back, I know that Speedy was a pretty easy puppy. They do exist. But getting a puppy is a gamble. You won't know what the puppy will be like until you have him or her.

 

Why not foster or dog sit some adult Border Collies. Get to know them firsthand. I think that would be the best way to know if the breed is for you. Some people are Border Collie people, and some aren't. If you can find that out before making a lifetime commitment, it would be good.

 

Also, if you don't want the bother of a puppy, why not consider an adolescent or adult? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are certainly plenty of Border Collies past puppyhood who need homes.

[rufftie]

i can't say enough good things about adopting an adult dog. yeah, i love puppies but i especially like giving them back to their owners. the last 4 out of 5 dogs i've owned have been adopted as adults (the pup was 6-7 mons. old when adopted). i don't miss prolonged housebreaking, chewing and biting. i've not had any real problems teaching an adult dog "my" way of doing things. of course, all my dogs have their quirks, but i'm not sure that wouldn't have happened if i raised them from puppyhood. i found it especially beneficial when i adopted my bc nova when she was about a year or so old. i was interested in an agility dog. becuase she was already an adult, so to speak, we were able to train and compete almost immediatly compared to raising a puppy to trialing age. then there's the gratitude, mine and theirs!

[MrSnappy]

No puppy is "typical" - ie, as many people have already said, every puppy is different. Dexter was a very easy puppy who almost never chewed anything he shouldn't and was house trained and crate trained literally overnight. But he did have a nasty habit of pooping only on my bed. Piper was an easy puppy also, but she peed immediately upon finishing the last bite of her dinner, every single night. I had to feed her dinner outside, down four flights of stairs (I was in an apartment) and gradually move the bowl into the building to slowly lengthen the amount of time between finishing her food and peeing. My neighbours, I'm sure, thought I was insane. Tweed ate everything he could fit in his mouth, including one memorable time, a lightbulb. Le sigh. Wootie selected a single book off my shelf every day and destroyed it - he really had something against Irvine Welsh in particular.

 

Etc.

 

However, I established boundaries, routines and lots of positive reinforcement for the things I liked very early on with all my puppies. And I also picked puppies I liked - Tweed was a crapshoot, being chosen sight unseen, but I fostered Piper before I adopted her, as did I with Wootie, and I knew Dexter from the day he was born. I would not have chosen a puppy that was panicky, shrieky, extra bitey etc. from the get go, and I think nature plays as big a part in the developing dog as nurture does. After all, Tweed was not even 6 weeks when I got him, and he turned out relatively normal, despite his tender age and my pretty spotty socialization regime.

 

Why were you babysitting a puppy this young anyway, and why isn't it already crate trained, on its way to being housebroken, and leash-broke? It might speak to whomever's puppy it is, and their management of the puppy. Or maybe they just got a lousy, irritating, spazzy puppy.

 

I would second (third?) the rescue option. If adopting an actual adult doesn't float your boat, look for a pup that is 5 or 6 months old and already has the basics down pat, so you don't have to deal with the early puppy nonsense. There are lots of those in rescue, generally impulse buys that took a few months to sink in (and ship out). Often their owners were well meaning, kind people who just made a really silly mistake, and the pups are well adjusted and well on their way. But don't discount the adults either. Hell, Dexter is 18 months old and I still think of him as "The Puppy" because he's not grown up yet at all.

 

RDM

[Shetlander]

Raising a puppy is a lot of work to do it right! At least, that is what I've found with my puppies who have ranged from fairly angelic to little dickens. Some of what you describe sounds like Quinn when he was very little and easily the most difficult puppy I've had. Until he turned about 5 or 6 months and became easily the best puppy I've had. He was great in the crate and housebroken at 9 weeks, though. The importance of finding a schedule that works for you and the puppy can't be over-emphasized. That goes a long way to making it easier for the pup to learn what you want him to and not practice the things you'd rather he didn't.

 

I will second those who suggest an adult dog may be the way to go. Speaking for myself, I have much more fun with my puppies once they hit 6 months and up. While I love "teenager" dogs, that is a prime time that people give up their pups because of challenging, rowdy behaviors, so beware of that age as well. A calmer, wiser adult might be the best way for you to go for your first dog.

[Gloria Atwater]

Is this puppy just abnormal or is it me?

Is this typical of border collie puppies?

If it is, is a border collie puppy for me, should I consider and older dog?

Should I just consider a whole other breed?

Should I just forget owning a real dog and just enjoy them in theory?

 

 

Ow, you have my sympathy. It sounds like you spent a week and a half in puppy hell!

 

I also would have some questions, though. How old is this pup? What had its owners done with it, prior to your babysitting? How long had they had it, and at what age was it weaned? I would tend to think that some of that excessive behavior is because the pup's owners hadn't put any boundaries on it, at home. But, it could be just a hyper, stubborn puppy.

 

However to answer your questions: Is the puppy abnormal? Yes and no. I'd wonder if the puppy was spoiled at home, but also, her level of excitability sounds a little over the top. I've had 8 puppies over the last 25 years, (and I've known many more) and the only one that gave me anything close to that level of hell was a pup weaned at 6 weeks. She was just too young, and by the time she was 10 weeks, her behavior had settled a lot. I do not consider the behavior you describe as typical of border collie puppies.

 

But I'd also wonder if maybe you needed a little bit of help, dealing with that little rascal. Folks before me have offered good advice about potty training: if she doesn't potty, put her up and try her again in 20 minutes. I've only ever used verbal praise for potty training, since it's easy to say, "GOOD girl!" when she's peeing, but hard to get a treat in her mouth at that very moment.

 

As for the mouthing and biting, I'm not above a bit of corporal punishment. A big NO! combined with little pop with a rolled up newspaper or a plastic rock-bottle might do wonders. You don't want to traumatize a pup, but if they're simply not taking No for an answer ... the pop of a newspaper or plastic pebble-laden bottle is a lot gentler than the correction an older dog might give her. Unless a pup is particularly dull, I don't think it would take it long to figure out that NO really meant business.

 

Also, if a pup wants to chew incorrect things, I take the object away (or pull the pup away) with a stern NO and replace the object with a correct toy, giving praise as the pup takes it. Plus, I keep a LOT of toys around for pups to play with, since they do seem to go from one to the other, when very young.

 

Another question: did you use an X-pen? If you don't want to crate a pup but you want to keep them indoors without giving them the run of the house, I highly recommend an x-pen set up somewhere in the busy part of the house. Yes, it's inconvenient and in the way, and makes your decor look ugly. And yes, they'll cry just like they do with a crate. But you'd be nearby, and you can put multiple toys in an x-pen, give them chewy bones and treats and all sorts of good stuff, and they'll soon learn that good things happen in the x-pen. And it'll give you some relief when you're trying to do dishes or pay bills.

 

If you really don't feel up to a puppy, listen to your gut. There are plenty of nice rescue dogs out there who would enable you to bypass that puppy stuff, and let you go straight into enjoying a new pal and companion. I got my good boy, Jesse, as a 2-year-old rescue, and 10 years later, I haven't regretted a day.

 

If you're unsure if you're suited for dog ownership at all, why not try volunteering for a while at a local shelter, offer to walk and play with the dogs, and see how you get along with them? Or find a local dog club and see if they have events the general public can attend, and go spend a little time there. Just being around dogs who are enjoyed by their owners may give you a better sense of what dog ownership would give to you - or not.

 

Whether a border collie, specifically, is the dog for you, is a question only you can answer. The questions you should consider are your lifestyle, time you'll have available for a pup, how much room you have, how much exercise you can give them, and what you want to do with your dog.

 

I wouldn't consider this one bad experience as typical of border collie puppy ownership at all, though. Best of luck with your decisions. Get some sleep!

Cheers ~

 

Gloria

[rushdoggie]

I will 3rd or 4th the suggestion to foster a couple of Border Collies. It will give you a much better way to see if these are the right dogs for you, you'll get a better overview.

 

In the meantime you will be doing some dogs in need a favor, and you never know, your dream dog may just end up as one of your fosters.

[Heather Rae]

I teach 8th grade, so experience a degree of frustration from time to time, and have a normal-to-high amount of patience. However, when it came time to get a dog, I had no dobut that I wanted an adult. Maybe when I'm older and retired and have endless time, I'll want to potty-train and bite-train and leash-train and... ::Sigh:: I'm getting tired even thinking about it.

 

If it doesn't feel fun, and if it isn't at all enjoyable - why push the issue?

 

Mary

 

I actually have an abundance of time which is why I offered to puppy sit for my friend. You're right if it's not fun why do it? The thing is if this typical behavior of a Border Collie puppies but they grow out of it I would prefer an adult, in fact whether or not it is, in some ways an adult dogs really seems favorable as you have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into. Still I like the idea of raising it from puppy hood til death do us part, but maybe I could wait until later for that.

 

Well I got Maya at 10 wks and I don't think she ever acted the way you are describing, She rarely cried in the crate, had no problem going in, potty training accidents were all my fault (too much freedom), I don't really remember mouthing being a huge deal (able to redirect it to a toy easily and she always had a pretty soft mouth and responded well to a loud "ouch). She always had great focus and was very toy and food motivated at a young age. She was still a puppy and did puppy things, but honestly I think the worst thing she did was chew on the legs of my kitchen table when she was tethered to me.

 

If it were my pup the excitability and mouthing would have been ended with a correction and maybe some down time in a crate with a peanut butter filled kong....As well as the pottying thing, if you aren't going to potty (On leash) then you go back in the crate to try again in 15min....after you potty then you can have off leash time.

 

 

How old is this pup and how early was she removed from her litter? Wondering if she was taken a little early and didn't learn some of the social skills a mom and litter mates can teach.

Okay talked to my friend. This pup was 11 weeks (and 12 by the time she left me) and she was supposedly eight weeks old when she was removed from the litter. So I'm not sure if that's the reason for her activities or if I was doing something that brought this out. Talking to my friend he just laughed and said, "Yeah she'll do that, but she'll grow out of it", so I'm not sure if he's just allowing this behavior at home.

 

Well, some of this sounded like fairly typical puppy behavior but perhaps to a degree that many of us don't see. Remember, it's not just the puppy but also the environment that the puppy has been in. It's hard to generalize from one pup to an entire breed (or an entire age bracket) even when some things are not unusual in themselves.

 

I'd put it this way - if you have doubts, wait and see. Waiting won't hurt a thing and might prevent you from getting involved in something that you might not enjoy like you'd hoped. Watch for additional opportunities to familiarize yourself with the breed and especially pups. Maybe volunteering for a rescue - they are always looking for good foster homes and people to help with dogs and pups.

 

And that brings up the other point I'd like to make - have you considered an older pup/adolescent/adult from a reputable rescue? Getting a little pup is always a gamble - even meeting the parents and the pup in its home, does not guarantee anything (although it ups your chances of getting what you'd like). But then there is all the puppy stuff - housebreaking, teething, chewing, nipping, destruction, middle-of-the-night potty trips, crate-training, leash-training, etc.

 

When you get an animal from a reputable rescue, you are often getting a known quantity, as that animal has been fostered and often had quite a bit of basic training - housebreaking, leash-training, crate-training, basic manners, and so on. It's a thought. It's what I'd be doing if I was looking for a companion/pet/sports dog.

 

Best wishes!

 

I am considering an older dog, especially after this experience. I am trying to volunteer with a Border Collie rescue but for some reason my emails aren't getting to them or they aren't being responded to, I have went to an event of theirs but now I'm waiting for another one in hopes of getting a phone number to reach or something along those lines.

 

 

FWIW, not all Border Collie puppies are like that. Speedy was nothing like that. He did some mouthing as a puppy, but I would just say "kisses kisses" in a happy voice and he would give kisses instead. Eventually, he stopped mouthing and gave kisses instead. The one and only time he ever made a peep in his crate, which he slept in every night, he was sick and was trying to let me know.

 

He did do puppy things - he chewed and I had to watch him carefully when he was a baby to make sure I saw when he needed to potty. He had more energy than I knew what to do with at the time. But he was nothing like the puppy that you describe.

 

My point is that puppies can be as different from one another as individual adults can be. Looking back, I know that Speedy was a pretty easy puppy. They do exist. But getting a puppy is a gamble. You won't know what the puppy will be like until you have him or her.

 

Why not foster or dog sit some adult Border Collies. Get to know them firsthand. I think that would be the best way to know if the breed is for you. Some people are Border Collie people, and some aren't. If you can find that out before making a lifetime commitment, it would be good.

 

Also, if you don't want the bother of a puppy, why not consider an adolescent or adult? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are certainly plenty of Border Collies past puppyhood who need homes.

 

I thought I could deal with the amount of puppy behavior that I've seen in other ones I have cared for but this frustrating and made me wonder if I could do it. Typically I pride myself on patience and composure but this sort of turned me on my head and made me question myself. I do hope to foster or interact with more dogs in the future though before I get my own. Maybe while fostering or volunteering I'll find my companion.

 

i can't say enough good things about adopting an adult dog. yeah, i love puppies but i especially like giving them back to their owners. the last 4 out of 5 dogs i've owned have been adopted as adults (the pup was 6-7 mons. old when adopted). i don't miss prolonged housebreaking, chewing and biting. i've not had any real problems teaching an adult dog "my" way of doing things. of course, all my dogs have their quirks, but i'm not sure that wouldn't have happened if i raised them from puppyhood. i found it especially beneficial when i adopted my bc nova when she was about a year or so old. i was interested in an agility dog. becuase she was already an adult, so to speak, we were able to train and compete almost immediatly compared to raising a puppy to trialing age. then there's the gratitude, mine and theirs!

 

Ha, sounds like how I feel about children. I love children and I love giving them back to their parents.

 

Why were you babysitting a puppy this young anyway, and why isn't it already crate trained, on its way to being housebroken, and leash-broke? It might speak to whomever's puppy it is, and their management of the puppy. Or maybe they just got a lousy, irritating, spazzy puppy.

 

I would second (third?) the rescue option. If adopting an actual adult doesn't float your boat, look for a pup that is 5 or 6 months old and already has the basics down pat, so you don't have to deal with the early puppy nonsense. There are lots of those in rescue, generally impulse buys that took a few months to sink in (and ship out). Often their owners were well meaning, kind people who just made a really silly mistake, and the pups are well adjusted and well on their way. But don't discount the adults either. Hell, Dexter is 18 months old and I still think of him as "The Puppy" because he's not grown up yet at all.

 

RDM

After taking to my friend I'm not sure he was particularly committed to training her these things and I'm not sure if she started out spazzy or if she got like that through reinforcement or a combination of these things.

 

An adult is definitely sounding good. Considering most dogs that I like are adults, even with their quirks, but at least you get a good idea of their personality and what you'll have to fix. I hope I can do more care taking, and probably won't get my own until I have some more experience, although I'll admit despite the relief to see her go home I still felt a little sad after spending 24/7 with the little dog (and very, very, very cute puppy). I wonder how I'll feel if I care for an amazing dog and have to let him or her go after giving a part of my life to it?

 

Raising a puppy is a lot of work to do it right! At least, that is what I've found with my puppies who have ranged from fairly angelic to little dickens. Some of what you describe sounds like Quinn when he was very little and easily the most difficult puppy I've had. Until he turned about 5 or 6 months and became easily the best puppy I've had. He was great in the crate and housebroken at 9 weeks, though. The importance of finding a schedule that works for you and the puppy can't be over-emphasized. That goes a long way to making it easier for the pup to learn what you want him to and not practice the things you'd rather he didn't.

 

I will second those who suggest an adult dog may be the way to go. Speaking for myself, I have much more fun with my puppies once they hit 6 months and up. While I love "teenager" dogs, that is a prime time that people give up their pups because of challenging, rowdy behaviors, so beware of that age as well. A calmer, wiser adult might be the best way for you to go for your first dog.

 

Good to know Kip (the puppy I babysat) wasn't like demon possessed. I've only dealt with one teenaged dog besides my own very calm German Shepard mix and that was my father's Malamute, he was a bit of a handful, chewing everything he could and spazzing out over the least bit of excitement, he was fun though and only ever had once accident in the house and never, ever an accident anywhere else, not even after standing in Petsmart for three hours and plenty of other dogs doing their business everywhere... let him outside though and no bush is safe. I think it was just the combination of so many naughty behaviors that overwhelmed me.

 

Ow, you have my sympathy. It sounds like you spent a week and a half in puppy hell!

 

I also would have some questions, though. How old is this pup? What had its owners done with it, prior to your babysitting? How long had they had it, and at what age was it weaned? I would tend to think that some of that excessive behavior is because the pup's owners hadn't put any boundaries on it, at home. But, it could be just a hyper, stubborn puppy.

 

But I'd also wonder if maybe you needed a little bit of help, dealing with that little rascal. Folks before me have offered good advice about potty training: if she doesn't potty, put her up and try her again in 20 minutes. I've only ever used verbal praise for potty training, since it's easy to say, "GOOD girl!" when she's peeing, but hard to get a treat in her mouth at that very moment.

 

 

Another question: did you use an X-pen? If you don't want to crate a pup but you want to keep them indoors without giving them the run of the house, I highly recommend an x-pen set up somewhere in the busy part of the house. Yes, it's inconvenient and in the way, and makes your decor look ugly. And yes, they'll cry just like they do with a crate. But you'd be nearby, and you can put multiple toys in an x-pen, give them chewy bones and treats and all sorts of good stuff, and they'll soon learn that good things happen in the x-pen. And it'll give you some relief when you're trying to do dishes or pay bills.

 

Cheers ~

 

Gloria

 

Thank you for your detailed response. She was eleven to twelve weeks while I had her. I can't say specifically what she had been doing under my friend's care but his general, "Yeah she does that" attitude tells me that he doesn't limit much of her behaviors. He got her at eight weeks and I couldn't say when she was weaned. And no pen, just a baby gate and a crate, Unfortunately with the current set up of my house I was only able to gate off my relatively large bathroom. Which left a good deal of room to piddle in. Not that laying newpaper down helped any she just tore it up.

 

I could have used some help and while I tried the go potty or it's in the crate she just seemed to cry so I felt a little like I was abusing her because she sounded like I was killing her. Then I wasn't sure if I should take her out to go potty when she hadn't stopped crying, especially if she hadn't gone potty twice in a row. At times it went like this:

 

Bed time:Cry for about 5-10 minutes fall asleep.

Midnight: Whimper and shuffling, I get up take her out (didn't know it was so cold in the middle of the night) she'd get distracted with picking up rocks and putting them some where else, finally go pee. I'd say good girl and then I'd bring her back in. Back into the crate, another 5-10 minutes of crying while I hope the rest of the family doesn't kill me. Repeat at 3 and 5:30.

5:30 after going potty: let her play with me and our Malamute, chase/fetch (sort of) a ball. Settle her down by working on sit, lay and come. Which she caught onto the hand gestures quite quickly but for some reason I couldn't get her to recognize the word.

7:00: Breakfast.

7:10: Finish breakfast and go potty outside. Wait ten minutes as she does everything except go potty, upon relieving herself both #1 and #2 Say good girl. Inside. Play briefly. Get my hands bitten while playing tug, "Yelp ouch" stop playing, wait for her to stop jumping on me and go back to playing with toy. Take her out once more to make sure she did her business, after five minutes of relocating rocks I take her back inside and place her in her create with frozen chicken broth in a kong. Sometimes she'd cry for 5 minutes other times she'd cry for forty, not really sure what caused 5 minutes and what prompted 40 minutes.

 

 

9:00: Up and whimpering, Out to go potty again. 10 minutes of distraction finally potty. Play inside. Bites my hands, OUCH stop playing often now she's really excited because she's up and out of the crate, tries to chew my arm and leg off. I leave her in the bathroom behind a baby gate, intense "you're killing me" crying for 10-30 minutes I can't decide what the right choice is, go in an take her potty or let her cry ( felt like I was choosing between reinforcing this crying or peeing on the floor), almost every time whether or be ten minutes or thirty she peed on the floor. I clean up the mess and return to playing with her, again biting, Repeat Yelp and ignore. She bites at my pants and legs. I step outside of the gate. Another bouts of crying and pee.

 

About ten: Outside play with the malamute. She goes potty again and I say good girl and act really happy. She gets excited and starts nipping again. I take her inside and place her in her crate with second Kong remove other. Another bout of crying. Finally rest.

 

Twelve: Up potty, this time she almost always goes immediately. Inside, food, then backout, I let her play with the Mal and watch them. (It's amazing how big and still patient and gentle he is with other dogs) She does her business, praise and back inside to play. A game of tug and or fetch and it's back to biting. Repeat yelp, ignore, leave if biting continues. Clean up upon return. Play with her from other side of baby gate for a while. Ten minutes go by and she doesn't want any of her toys, I try to re-interest her but she tries to chew on cupboards or dig up the linoleum or trying to bite at me. I take her back outside to see if she has to go potty. Ten minutes of biting grass and moving rocks I take her in and place her back in the crate this is usually around 2ish.

 

This cycle repeats with wake up at 4 when people return home, out for a walk, which is diffcult because her dislike for the leash, mostly made up of me running and trying to get her to chase me. Sometimes successful sometimes not. Sometimes she'd just sit and stare at me and no tempting of hotdogs to would bring her to me. Dinner at six. From six until nine it's play and training reinforcement.

 

I did try some other things though, instead of leaving out of her sight when biting I stood on the other side of the gate, didn't matter she would cry. If I took her out potty when she cried she'd only play with rocks and such for the ten minutes and many times peed on the floor when we went back inside. So I don't know what I was doing wrong but it was quite frustrating.

[Gloria Atwater]

I'll say again, poor you! I promise you, all puppies, let alone all border collie puppies, are NOT this difficult!

 

And I think it's a safe guess this pup suffers from a lack of structured behaviors at home, so of course it wouldn't understand if you tried to instill structure at your house.

 

Off the top of my head, though, and this is just for discussion's sake, there are a couple things I would have changed. One, I wouldn't have played with her after she goes potty. Puppies have to potty at basically 3 times: when they wake up, after they've eaten, and after or during play. So if you've just pottied her and you bring her in to play ... you're winding her back up again, and it can trigger more peeing. As you noticed.

 

Another thing is, rather than put her behind a gate when she's refused to potty, I would have put her in her crate. Give her a couple toys or goodies, but back in the crate, because generally a pup doesn't want to mess their bed. Then if she throws a screaming fit, ignore her, and don't let her out again until she quiets.

 

The trick would be to make a consistent response to every incident. No potty? Fine, in the crate until you go. Go potty, good girl, now we go indoors, I hand you a toy - and then I leave you alone. (Note the X-pen idea, if you can't watch her.) And correct her for biting and hand-grabbing as I described, then walk away.

 

Oh, and in praising her for a good potty, I wouldn't have used an excited voice. I'd have used a very pleased, yet crooning voice of praise. The less excited voices this pup hears, the better for it.

 

Last but not least ... Oh, my dear. You spent from 6 until 9 at night, entertaining your friends' puppy? I promise you, this level of devotion to raising a dog is uncalled for. Puppies do not need constant handling. They're not human babies. Alone time when they can entertain themselves, rather than be entertained, is good for them. That way they can learn to be more self-contained and less demanding of you. You are not the puppy's new play thing! And to be honest, if you work with a young pup more than a few minutes at a time, you've over-saturating their brains. Their attention level at that age is fairly limited.

 

Granted, this isn't your puppy so you don't have to worry about this, but if all her owner says is, "Oh, she does that" ... I consider that a fairly bright red warning flag. To me, it sounds a lot more like the puppy's home environment, rather than the puppy are to blame.

 

In conclusion, if you feel an older dog is right for you, look into rescue or fostering. But if you get a puppy at 8 or 9 weeks and start him off right, I really doubt you would have a monster quite like this little rascal.

 

I hope we're making you feel a little better! It sounds like you were basically handed an unschooled puppy and ended up a bit over your head. It's not always like that, I promise! And I do think you may have gone a little over and above the call of duty.

Best regards,

 

Gloria

[arf2184]

All puppies are different. All of them take patience and work, some more than others.

 

Bear and his two sisters were the first puppies I really raised and trained (10 years ago). Each had very different personalities. Bear was a terror when it came to chewing things up and whining and barking. To this day he still has to have something in his mouth all the time, though he's long since learned what's his to chew and slobber on and what is not (he still a garbage diver though). He was afraid of new things and required a lot of patience. Tips was wild and crazy and all over the place. It took quite a while to get her to learn to calm down in the house. She also liked to pick up strange object and carry them around the house...I'll never forget the time I found her walking around with a knife at about 7 months old...no clue where she found it. Matty was my little angel...quiet, didn't chew too many things up, calm in the house, ready to play at any time, eager to explore new things, and potty trained easily. Having all three at once was quite the challenge...not something I'd volunteer for again.

 

It was a great experience, but its also why I chose to adopt an adult when I got Meg. I didn't want to mess with potty training and teething. I made a list of what I wanted/needed in a dog and went looking for a young adult that was in a foster home so I could make sure I found the right dog for our house. Meg came to us potty trained, good with cats and other dogs, not a big barker, active and playful, and not one to take off at every opportunity...all of which were my biggest requirements. Meg also had very good house manners...a bonus. She did have a few issues...some that we're still working on...but nothing major and nothing we couldn't/can't handle.

 

Adopting an adult can be just as rewarding (and less stressful) than getting a puppy. Take plenty of time to find the right dog for you.

[Sue R]

Fostering a dog and then not being able to give it up is called "failing Fostering 101", and there's nothing wrong with that. It just means that you found the right dog while helping out a rescue.

 

There is a particular pleasure in raising a pup to be the dog you have for its lifetime. But there is also a particular satisfaction in adopting a dog that is in a shelter or rescue, because you are giving that animal a chance for a new and fulfilling life, instead of the alternatives that faced it of euthanasia, abandonment or neglect, abuse, and so on. What greater bond could you feel than that you gave a deserving animal a life well worth living?

 

I'm sure you will figure out what's right for you - meanwhile, you are being very sensible to evaluate what happened in this instance and why, and to understand your feelings and what might have been done differently.

 

Again, best wishes!

[NorthfieldNick]

I've raised a number of pups- mostly hunting Labs. I've adopted/bought a couple of adult dogs. And I have Hoot, who I adopted at 5 months, he's now 18 months. By far the most fun I've had was with the adult dogs (one was about 4, the other 2). You know their personality, they come fairly adjusted. My favourite kind of puppies are those that belong to someone else. I swear, after raising Hoot, NO MORE PUPPIES! Well, at least not for another 5 yrs or so So much work, so much time...

 

Fostering for a rescue group sounds like a great idea. I haven't done much fostering, but it was very rewarding. Yes, it can be very hard to give up a dog you've spent so much time with, but look at it this way: When that dog finds its home, it opens up a spot in your home so you can help another dog. If you fail fostering & adopt a dog, that doesn't stop you from fostering other dogs, either.

 

Also, thanks for being so responsible about the choice to get a dog. If more people were like you, and "tried out" a puppy, really thought about whether a dog or breed is right for them, etc, there wouldn't be so many dogs in rescue!

[CLW1]

I've raised numerous puppies over the last 10 years and the first 2-3 weeks is always the hardest. No matter how old the puppy is, it's a big change to your routine and a lot of work and can be pretty overwhelming. I always get a few days to a week into it and feel like it's a big mistake, too much work, etc, etc and I need to return the puppy. After awhile I've got a routine down and it's much easier and I no longer feel like I can't handle it. Now I just tell myself that I need to stop panicking and get through 2 weeks of puppy raising and then decide how I really feel. Usually by then I've forgotten my panic and I'm enjoying the puppy.

[Katariina]

the first 2-3 weeks is always the hardest.

 

That's my thought, too. Usually the first week is the toughest, since you need to adjust, but the main thing...so does the puppy(new people around, new place etc).

I don't think it helps the puppy much either, if the handler/place changes suddenly, just when it has been weaned and gotten a new home and then for some reason needs a babysitter and maybe moves to a diffent house for a few days/week or so.

[SecretBC]

I think it's awesome that you got to have a "practice run." That's not something most people get a chance to do and yes, some people do find it overwhelming and not enjoyable.

 

I'm one of those weird people that loves puppy raising. I don't mind getting up three times a night, cleaning up accidents, going outside every 20 minutes, playing all day, etc. I think it's the most fun ever (which is odd, because I have not one single human-based maternal gene in my body, lol).

 

But puppy raising is not for everyone. In fact, I think I'm the odd one in my circle of agility friends -- Most of them hate the young puppy period and opt for one that is a bit older.

 

The good news is that you have lots of choices and lots of time to make them. I think fostering is a great idea, and I know that plenty of puppies tend to come through rescue so you may get another chance at that even. Meanwhile, if the perfect adolescent or adult dog comes along that you fall in love with, well, decision made!

[jdarling]

Speedy was nothing like that. He did some mouthing as a puppy, but I would just say "kisses kisses" in a happy voice and he would give kisses instead. Eventually, he stopped mouthing and gave kisses instead.

 

I'm not sure this method would work with any pup other than Speedy, but beyond that, if by "kisses" you mean he licks you ... I don't want to be licked any more than I want a puppy biting me. The old method of knocking the pup ass over teakettle a couple of times works great for me. Despite how it sounds, it's a great form of positive training. When the pup learns it, they are positive that biting me is not a good idea.

[Chantal]

, it's a great form of positive training. When the pup learns it, they are positive that biting me is not a good idea.

 

hahahaha

[Root Beer]

I'm not sure this method would work with any pup other than Speedy, but beyond that, if by "kisses" you mean he licks you ... I don't want to be licked any more than I want a puppy biting me. The old method of knocking the pup ass over teakettle a couple of times works great for me. Despite how it sounds, it's a great form of positive training. When the pup learns it, they are positive that biting me is not a good idea.

 

Knocking a puppy around wouldn't suit me any more than being kissed by a dog suits you. You may be "positive" that you like handling a dog that way, but I am just as positive that I don't.

 

9 years later, I still love Speedy kisses, and pretty much everything about him. When he's not with me any longer, I won't be sorry that I chose to raise him without the use of force. And I'll miss those sweet kisses until the day I die. About that I am quite positive. Memories of knocking a puppy around really wouldn't sit well with me. I have no plans to do so with any future puppies. I'm positive of that, too.

[juliepoudrier]

Oh dear, here we go....

 

J.

[Sue R]

...again.

[Maralynn]

What are your expectations for a pup?

 

Still I like the idea of raising it from puppy hood til death do us part, but maybe I could wait until later for that.

 

It sounds like you may be looking for that instant "click". I got this with my first dog(got her when she was three - with the right dog, suddenly the age doesn't really matter), but I've really had to work to get the click with my other two. It's part of the process and has helped me to appreciate them for who they are and taught me more about working with dogs in general!

 

Part two is what can be annoying in someone else's pup or dog, isn't so bad in your own Kinda like kids. Your kids and you take the behavior in stride and come up with a plan to shape and mold it into your desired result - it's part of the process. Someone elses and you're like "boy, am I glad they're not mine!"

[Shetlander]

9 years later, I still love Speedy kisses, and pretty much everything about him. When he's not with me any longer, I won't be sorry that I chose to raise him without the use of force. And I'll miss those sweet kisses until the day I die.

 

Aww. That is sweet. I admire your dedication to positive training. I'm not one for smacking dogs, but I did lose my patience with Quinn when he went through his nipping period. He would do "drive by" nips on my shin and continue racing along his merry way, leaving me with bruises. I ended up going with a "bellow, grab puppy, tell puppy he sucks" sort of method. He was often on to his his third activity by time I'd get hold of him, but I figured my yell at the time of the bite marked the behavior. After a couple corrections, he decided nipping me wasn't fun and my bruises faded. Not my fondest moment in dog ownership, but I do smile when I think of what a little coyote he was at that age. It was a wild ride for both of us that first month, but we survived. I can't imagine a better boy for me.