What good is refusing to sell to AKC home?

[Conner22]

Ok. I understand the issue with not supporting AKC, and some will not sell to AKC homes! But, I'll admit frustration! I DO AKC agility with my dogs, but mostly as a result of USDAA being higher jumps (my one boy has a bad back, its an effort to jump him higher than 20inch).

All my boys are out of local working bc homes. I spay/neuter- I'm definitely NOT a breeder. I believe in getting a dog from a breeder who is improving the breed.

I asked how to tell a good working bc on here- and was told about verifying the dog places in Open. Well, I was very excited to find such a breeding, the site did not mention anything about "NO AKC HOMES". And - no response. I'll admit I'm super sad, but know there are other breedings out there. However, I also know of places who refuse to sell to AKC homes and wondered if that was the deal.

But here's the "deal". AKC is such a SMALL portion of what type of home I have for my boys, its almost funny. I do maybe ONE trial ONCE a month OR LESS! But, my dogs have play groups, go hiking, go to the beach, go to obedience, agility classes, play frisbee, have met livestock, are fed raw diet, see the chiropractor, see the massage therapist, are loved to death, taught tricks, I bring them to fairs, everywhere...... SO ONCE a month (actually less) they do AKC, that is what a 1/30th of the time/ home I am, but the basis for what I am judged to be a good home by?

I have dogs because I LOVE the dog and enjoy them emmensely. Not because I am a devoted supporter of AKC.

 

If we wished to evaluate how much I am supporting AKC, the answer is about $500/year (agility entry). I think I spend more on toilet paper. In contrast I spend well over $8000/year on my dogs.

So instead of my money going to support obvious good breeding practises, I will spend my money supporting local "ish" breeders whom I do not have the ability to evaluate as I know nothing of herding, but I at least know their dogs work the livestock.

[toney]

Ok. I understand the issue with not supporting AKC,

 

 

I believe your first sentence clarifies the reason some working homes will not sell to those who intend to register with the AKC, for whatever reason. While I can understand your frustration, it's a simple question of whether or not the breeder wants their puppies to contribute to the AKC coffers or not.

 

Terry

[Conner22]

I believe your first sentence clarifies the reason some working homes will not sell to those who intend to register with the AKC, for whatever reason. While I can understand your frustration, it's a simple question of whether or not the breeder wants their puppies to contribute to the AKC coffers or not.

 

Terry

 

Still, it feels like I'm being judged based off what brand of toilet paper I buy! " that brand supports china- and china is mean to border collies- so you can't have a dog"

[Sue R]

There are plenty of top-quality working Border Collie breeders who have no stipulations on dual-registration, and just like there are plenty who do. If you want a well-bred, working-bred pup from a good handler/breeder, you may just have to search a bit more to find one with no objections to your future plans for your pup. Remember that many working-bred breeders simply prefer to see as many of their pups go into working homes, as that is the only way to evaluate the quality of their breeding program - to see how the pups/dogs actually do on stock over time. And the best breeders often have waiting lists of people that want their pups, so you just may be contacting people who simply have any potential pups spoken for already. That doesn't excuse a lack of manners in giving you a timely and polite reply.

 

As for home situations, I have friends who are very involved in AKC, in one form or another, and virtually all of them provide excellent homes for their dogs. If something were to happen to me and one or more of my dogs needed to be rehomed with most any one of my AKC friends, I would have absolutely no reservation with regards to my dog(s) being provided a happy, healthy, caring, forever home (since none of my friends are involved at all with conformation or breeding).

 

It it not the home environment that is the issue with most working-bred breeders who won't sell to AKC homes - some simply want all (or as many as possible) of their pups in working homes so that the value of the breeding can be seen over time on stock; or they are adverse to the association with AKC in any way, the registration of working-bred dogs with AKC, the goals of AKC itself, and the desire to maintain the breed as a working breed (which is really contrary to overall AKC goals, regardless of what they say).

 

We all make our own choices, based on our own circumstances and the parameters we place on our lives - you choose AKC for your reasons (and others may do the same) and some people choose to avoid any association with AKC for their own reasons.

 

If you feel the need (as you have expressed) to participate in AKC activities, why not consider a rescue dog that you can PAL (what used to be ILP)? You know this but pups are always a gamble - rescue dogs are usually a reasonably well-known choice. There are great dogs out there, just waiting for a home just like yours. You don't need to buy from and support a second-rate breeder when when that first-rate dog may already be waiting for you.

 

ETA - For many breeders, it's the principle of the thing, no involvement and no support of AKC. Period. That's the short answer.

 

ETA, redux - Not all breeders of good dogs trial but consistent trialling success can be a good indicator of a good breeding/training program. A well-bred dog of proven parentage may simply come from farm or ranch dogs that are proven on practical, challenging work. Not all dogs or all handlers/trainers trial. I think that what people are trying to say is that, for those that trial, being successful at lower levels is not an indication of breeding-worthiness (and you can see all sorts of folks breeding "Novice Champion" or "won Pro-Nov" dogs that are really of limited ability). But, not all sorts of farm work proves dogs worthy, either, as some farm work can be pretty unchallenging and not a test of ability. I think that, in the long run, it is the integrity of the breeder, their choice of worthy breeding stock, and their reasons for breeding that determine whether or not they are the kind of person you should consider when looking for a pup.

[Conner22]

Actually, I've been really wanting a dog to do USDAA with. As I said, I only do AKC because its what my boy can handle. If I got a dog that was structurally sound I'd be more than happy to persue other venues. Its either AKC or USDAA in my area.

Rescue can be tricky- I've had one before (not FROM a rescue, but an owner relinquish) and she had serious issues (including attacking other dogs, and myself).

My friend does rescue (for dogs in general) and I've had several friends adopt a rescue. They have gone from "happy" home to home full of issues. Including- dogs that were never trained and have issues as a result, obsessiveness to the extreme, issues with dogs in their packs (rescue dog picks on other dogs), dogs that have to be kept seperate from their dogs, dogs that cannot be around other dogs, dogs that have weird fears, dogs that are skittish, unworkable, etc. I'm sure there are happy homes with rescues, but I'm get super nervous about rescue. My boy Conner is super stable temperment, incredible dog, and has been attacked several times by rescues. Every time i've felt terrible, as he doesnt fight at all, but gets NAILED. Ear torn, puncture on leg (by different bcs). Etc. He'll try to get away, but can't. All from different dogs that were rescues.

I've met not owned differnt bc rescue dogs, all of which came with a slew of issues. One rehomed, one PTS, one placed in rescue as a dog that needed help (big issues). One is super stressful, doesnt want to do anything (he was gotten for agility) and has no drive.

This is not to criticize rescue, just not an option I wish to persue right now.

[Journey]

OK, that's fair. Maybe if we knew where you were located someone might be able to point you towards a breeder that *may* sell to a sport home.

[Sue R]

Actually, I've been really wanting a dog to do USDAA with. As I said, I only do AKC because its what my boy can handle. If I got a dog that was structurally sound I'd be more than happy to persue other venues. Its either AKC or USDAA in my area.

Well, the nice thing with the "new" dog being able to do USDAA would be that you would not "have" to register or ILP with AKC in order to compete.

 

Rescue can be tricky...

Yes, it can be but I think a great deal of the "risk" is removed (or reduced) by a quality rescue, one that fosters, evaluates, and works with the dogs and carefully screens the adoptive homes. An owner-relinquish can be fine but, as you found out, can really be someone passing on their problems to the next person.

 

All from different dogs that were rescues.

This would lead me to question the rescue organization(s), the genetic backgrounds of the dogs (some bad breeders wind up putting a lot of unsellable, returned, or no-longer-breeding-stock dogs into shelters and thereby into rescue), and the sort of fostering/work done with those dogs before your poor boy was exposed to them.

 

I've met not owned different bc rescue dogs, all of which came with a slew of issues. One rehomed, one PTS, one placed in rescue as a dog that needed help (big issues). One is super stressful, doesnt want to do anything (he was gotten for agility) and has no drive.

Not all rescue dogs, Border Collies included, have issues. Again, I would wonder about the screening processes at the rescue organization(s), both of the animals and of the prospective homes. I've had a few rescue-dogs-in-transit through my home, from overnight to a week at a time, and only one had any issues with my dogs - and, when she got to the rescue, she definitely had issues with other dogs but was, as I understand, placed successfully in an only-dog home as her issues were trainable and manageable.

 

This is not to criticize rescue, just not an option I wish to pursue right now.

That's understandable, that's your prerogative, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are some folks on these boards involved with rescues that I would trust implicitly but not all rescues, well-meaning or otherwise, are equal.

 

I hope you find the right dog/pup for yourself.

[Maralynn]

Now I've gotta ask - what kind of toilet paper do you use???? That's like spending $1.30/day - my cell phone bill is cheaper!!!

 

So did the person just not get back to you? are you sure they got your message? did you try a second time? If you just got no answer, maybe you should try again.

 

But just like it's your personal choice to do AKC agility, it may be someone's personal choice not to sell to a home that supports the AKC in way.

 

Actually, I've been really wanting a dog to do USDAA with. As I said, I only do AKC because its what my boy can handle. If I got a dog that was structurally sound I'd be more than happy to persue other venues. Its either AKC or USDAA in my area.

Rescue can be tricky- I've had one before (not FROM a rescue, but an owner relinquish) and she had serious issues (including attacking other dogs, and myself).

My friend does rescue (for dogs in general) and I've had several friends adopt a rescue. They have gone from "happy" home to home full of issues. Including- dogs that were never trained and have issues as a result, obsessiveness to the extreme, issues with dogs in their packs (rescue dog picks on other dogs), dogs that have to be kept seperate from their dogs, dogs that cannot be around other dogs, dogs that have weird fears, dogs that are skittish, unworkable, etc. I'm sure there are happy homes with rescues, but I'm get super nervous about rescue. My boy Conner is super stable temperment, incredible dog, and has been attacked several times by rescues. Every time i've felt terrible, as he doesnt fight at all, but gets NAILED. Ear torn, puncture on leg (by different bcs). Etc. He'll try to get away, but can't. All from different dogs that were rescues.

I've met not owned differnt bc rescue dogs, all of which came with a slew of issues. One rehomed, one PTS, one placed in rescue as a dog that needed help (big issues). One is super stressful, doesnt want to do anything (he was gotten for agility) and has no drive.

This is not to criticize rescue, just not an option I wish to persue right now.

 

I don't think you've sen enough rescues then!

 

All three of my dogs came to me as adults. They have had a few issues, but nothing near as major as those. Dog #1 got her CGC and therapy dog cert. DOg #2 is a certified SAR dog. Dog #3 is a happy go lucky drivey little dog. I've only had her a couple months but she is a super fast learner with no real quirks. She'd be a sports competitors dream and I'm training her for SAR work.

 

Dog #3 was the only one who came through a rescue group and she is by far the most issue free dog that I've had.

[Conner22]

Tristate area (OH, NY, PA). I live in NWestern PA. I love road trips tho, and have no problem traveling, the farthest West i'd go is Montana (great excuse to see relatives/visit the cattle ranch). So pretty big range there. I'd love to get a rescue, but just have "trust" issues with rescue right now. So if you know one you'd trust your *life* with because how well they place dogs, I'd definitely consider it. I really have difficulty finding the open level dogs, so help is appreciated! also, please personally email me the breeder/info as I dont think we are supposed to post breeders on this site!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

So, I'm going to go off topic here, but I want to respond to your "rescue issues" since I am quite heavily involved in an all breed rescue for cats and dogs.

 

All of the issues you mention that you've seen with rescue dogs I have, in one dog. I got her from a puppy, she's been with me since 9 weeks of age. NOTHING bad has EVER happened to her! She's fearful, skittish, has weird fears, she's dog reactive, you name it, she's got it. Bad breeding and lack of proper socialization at an early age, probably the culprit. Partly my fault? Yes. Entirely my fault? No. As her owner, I took the responsibility upon my self to seek out proper and professional help. At one point, she was a bite risk. I managed to work through almost all these issues with a good solid, positive trainer. If I would have been one of the countless irresponsible owners out there, she would have been surrendered and euthanized by the time she was 1.5 years old.

 

I am on foster dog #4 and have not encountered any of these issues to nearly the degree as I have with my own dog. We take our dogs out of REALLY bad situations. Abuse, neglect, on the verge of death. Some have even had their tails "docked" by children with elastic bands. None of these dogs have a reason to trust people at all. At first, they are all scared. There are a whole lot of new things going on, but usually within 2 weeks to 1 month, they are rock solid dogs. One I had was kind of skittish around men, but that's because she'd been abused by a man. Right now, she lives with a man and she's fine. Don't get me wrong, some of our dogs do have issues (we currently have a pit that was used for fighting), but we have a qualified trainer on our staff that will work through each dogs issues with their foster home and to date, we've had an incredibly high success rate. We have dedicated foster homes who work with the dogs and we ensure that each dog is suitably matched to the home it's going to. I think the failure you're seeing in "rescued dogs" is due to lack of knowledge and commitment on both the owner and organizations part. If you were to go the rescue route, you should do the same amount of research on a rescue as you would a breeder IMO. Find one that is an advocate of their dogs and tell them EXACTLY what you are looking for, they will find you an appropriate dog.

 

I understand your reservations 100%, but I just wanted you to know that what you are seeing is a bad representation of rescued dogs and that I do not mean to criticize in anyway if any part of that came off as such. I also should address that the owners of these rescue dogs should be taking it upon themselves to seek help for their dogs and not use "he's a rescue" as an excuse, because it's not. I do understand that not all issues can be solved 100%, but that's when the owner has to understand the dogs issues and not take a dog reactive dog to an off leash dog park. Get my drift?

 

Anyway, sorry for going OT here.

[Journey]

You have some really excellent choices in PA and MI as well. I think you might not be looking in the right places. Have you gone to any trials and watched? Seen any dogs you like? Ask the owners about them? IOW, done a bunch of research?

[Conner22]

Now I've gotta ask - what kind of toilet paper do you use???? That's like spending $1.30/day - my cell phone bill is cheaper!!!

 

So did the person just not get back to you? are you sure they got your message? did you try a second time? If you just got no answer, maybe you should try again.

 

But just like it's your personal choice to do AKC agility, it may be someone's personal choice not to sell to a home that supports the AKC in way.

I don't think you've sen enough rescues then!

 

All three of my dogs came to me as adults. They have had a few issues, but nothing near as major as those. Dog #1 got her CGC and therapy dog cert. DOg #2 is a certified SAR dog. Dog #3 is a happy go lucky drivey little dog. I've only had her a couple months but she is a super fast learner with no real quirks. She'd be a sports competitors dream and I'm training her for SAR work.

 

Dog #3 was the only one who came through a rescue group and she is by far the most issue free dog that I've had.

 

Haha- I buy tp for 3 adults, and the cats attack it as well. But I'm not really sure how much I actually spend on it, probably 20 a month, so I guess its a little less!

 

I sent three emails total, and recieved a "we recieved your message" automatic reply. So i'm pretty sure they got the email. but as you said, its their discretion, I get that! Just was sad, as it was the FIRST open level dog breeding i'd found and was all excited to talk to such a breeder. I would have love to been told to go on a wait list.

 

I'm super glad you had such success with your rescues. I'm just worried I won't get your luck if I go with rescue. Rescue DOES get dogs returned, i've seen it several times. And the last thing I need is a dog that for some reason doesn't like my Conner again. But if I'm looking for a bc for agility purposes, that can be very tricky when going to rescue, as agility is quite alot for any bc, let alone one that may come with past fears that are unknown in a nice rescue facility , but come out in an agility setting. Or just doesnt have drive in agility. I don't even see the point in persuing something with a dog that isn't happy in. A puppy IS a risk too! But, I have more input on temperment, and control over the way they view things. Plus, they tend to adapt very quickly INTO the pack, which is huge for me, as I do have 3 dogs. 2 border collies, 1 chihuahua. Although I do classify the chihuahua as an "other pet" kinda like having a ferret.... lol

[Rave]

Is your boy with the bad back able to jump 16" in USDAA Performance, i.e. is he under 21"?

 

Some working breeders won't sell to non-working homes period. So are you sure it's the ACK agility that's being held against you, and not just agility in general? I am very anti-ACK, refuse to ever do ACK or support it in any way, but there are still working breeders who wouldn't sell to me because I'm a sports person. Their dogs, their prerogative.

 

However, since you haven't heard back, it might just be poor communication on their part. I can't tell you how frustrated I got when trying to inquire about working litters and never hearing back.

[PSmitty]

I was looking forward to this thread, interesting topic. I hate that it took a "rescue dogs have issues" turn, though. Anyway, I'm not going there, but wanted to echo what Maralynn said. Isn't it possible the breeder just didn't get back to you, yet? Are you sure they wouldn't sell a pup to you, or that it has anything to do with AKC?

 

Also, I notice you mention "site". Most breeders of working dogs don't necessarily have websites, so you'll probably have a lot more luck, as Karen said, getting out to trials and making contacts in person with working breeders. Just a thought.

 

And, regardless of how we feel about it, it is a breeder's right to decide they don't want their pups to contribute to the AKC in any way, shape or form. *shrug*

 

ETA: Oh, sorry, I see you actually contacted the breeder several times. Never mind. I'm a slow typer!

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

I'm in Pa and I have 3 pure bred border collie puppies. They would require an Ilp for AKC but, they are wonderful and smart there are 2 girls and boy. The boy is red and white smooth pie bald and the females are blacka nd white nad red and white and I cant realy decide on coat for them more like a light medium. The black and white female is super smart and drivey.

 

Like others have said there are alot of good breeders in Pa and some bad ones.

[PSmitty]

Sorry, hijack!

 

Sheryl, I love the b/w smoothie with the fantabulous ears.

 

 

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Debbie Meier]

I sent three emails total, and recieved a "we recieved your message" automatic reply. So i'm pretty sure they got the email. but as you said, its their discretion, I get that! Just was sad, as it was the FIRST open level dog breeding i'd found and was all excited to talk to such a breeder. I would have love to been told to go on a wait list.

 

 

Those automated responses make me nervous, I'd be following up with a phone call. My rule of thumb in regards to e-mail is to give it 72 hours, especially if sent over a weekend. If no response, made a follow up phone call.

 

Also, you can do a google search to see if the breeder has a different e-mail account that they use regularly. It sounds strange but some people don't check all their e-mail mail boxes or occassionally the messages get lost in cyberspace or into the spam can.

 

Deb

[Conner22]

I was looking forward to this thread, interesting topic. I hate that it took a "rescue dogs have issues" turn, though.

 

No no! Not "rescue dogs have issues" but I've been burned by a handful of rescues before. Kinda like some people have been burned by bad breeders or bad dog parks. I'm sure they are super picky when it comes to adding a dog from a different breeder or trying new dog parks. I'm the same with rescue, which is why I said if some one could trust their *life* with the rescue, i'd consider it. I KNOW i've personally had/seen a bad experience with it, but also know of other people (ie some that posted) who've had great experiences. Just nervous about rescue is all! Do you know how bad is sucks to have your dog trust you, then get "tored up"? I FELT terrible that my boy had to experience some of that (felt like I was the bad owner). But I get I've maybe only met 10-15 rescues. And I KNOW I've met as many that are NOT rescues that also have plenty of issues.

there is that better?

[Conner22]

Is your boy with the bad back able to jump 16" in USDAA Performance, i.e. is he under 21"?

 

We (trainer, myself, and his massage therapist) agree he jumps best at 20 inches. At 16 he jumps flat (which can strain his back) and any higher he's really having to strain/push to jump. If USDAA had 20 inches, I'd be estatic. His back can get thrown out simply by running/playing too much too. He/We just love playing the sport too much to just quit. I am just really really good at warm up before run, cool off after. Massages, icing, heating, stretches. I love playing with him. If herding was closer by (apparently a good place is 5 hrs away) and I had more time off (I've just recently been full time at my job, so not much vacation)- I'd do that with him instead.

[juliepoudrier]

I'd trust my life with Mid-Atlantic Border Collie Rescue, based in MD, and I've heard nothing but wonderful things about Glen Highland Farm in NY.

 

As others have said, some breeders won't sell to sport homes, but I'm off the opinion that a great sport home is better than a crappy/mediocre working home. I probably wouldn't sell to someone who was going to put money in AKC coffers, though, just on principle.

 

I think the advice to go to trials and find working dog folks that way is an excellent one. Go to the USBCHA website (usbcha.com) and look at the calendar. You'll probably find a good number of events listed within driving distance of you.

 

J.

[Maralynn]

I'm super glad you had such success with your rescues. I'm just worried I won't get your luck if I go with rescue. Rescue DOES get dogs returned, i've seen it several times. And the last thing I need is a dog that for some reason doesn't like my Conner again. But if I'm looking for a bc for agility purposes, that can be very tricky when going to rescue, as agility is quite alot for any bc, let alone one that may come with past fears that are unknown in a nice rescue facility , but come out in an agility setting. Or just doesnt have drive in agility. I don't even see the point in persuing something with a dog that isn't happy in. A puppy IS a risk too! But, I have more input on temperment, and control over the way they view things. Plus, they tend to adapt very quickly INTO the pack, which is huge for me, as I do have 3 dogs. 2 border collies, 1 chihuahua. Although I do classify the chihuahua as an "other pet" kinda like having a ferret.... lol

 

I don't think it's luck as much as finding a reputable rescue and you yourself knowing what you want in a dog and why. I was looking for something very specific as well with my newest dog - I wanted a dog with excellent SAR potential. Which is perhaps more demanding than agility. A solid temperament, pretty bomb proof, good in all sorts of situations and with all sorts of people, ready to try anything and a high drive to work. I was up front with the rescue with what I needed in a dog and why and they went out of their way to test her in several things before I got her. They were just as adamant about finding the right home for her as I was about finding the right dog for me.

 

I certainly don't begrudge a person a pup if they feel that is the best way for them but, after my experiences, I feel that a person who knows what they need in a dog has a pretty good chance of finding a dog to fit the bill in rescue.

[SoloRiver]

I guess I just don't understand it when someone says "I am afraid of all the ways that something can go wrong" and then that same person thinks s/he is getting a better guarantee with a puppy than with an adult (rescue or otherwise) of known temperament. If you want a puppy, fine, that's your prerogative, but I think you're quite mistaken that getting a puppy from a breeder is going to give you any sort of guarantee that everything will end up exactly the way you want it.

 

I bought a puppy from a good working breeder (who by the way, does not allow registration with AKC which in my mind was a selling point) because I wanted to train her to work sheep and compete in sheepdog trials with her. There's no guarantee that she'll be a great sheepdog (although she looks good now) but in this sense I was upping my odds by choosing a dog of suitable breeding. For sports I firmly believe that the vast majority of Border Collies of any breeding (working, random, or otherwise) would make suitable sports dogs for the vast majority of sports competitors. I would have been open to any adult or pup from rescue that fit into my household had I been looking for a sport dog instead of a working dog, with the exception of puppies from rescues that require pediatric spay/neuter.

 

Anyway, I wish you luck finding your new companion.

[Alchemist]

I guess I'll echo some of what Melanie said with my own experience. We wanted a pup, in part because I wanted to be able to control the socialization process. (I work at a university and am lucky to be able to take my dog to work with me - but that privilege could easily be revoked if the dog proved aggressive toward, say, men with beards or other dogs). We had plans to eventually do agility. So I spent six months or more in search of a breeder.

 

I also spent some time lurking on these Boards and started to appreciate a lot of "red flags" about a local breeder of Border collies: all her pups were dual registered with AKC; she raised ~ 8 litters per year; she wouldn't allow me to come and meet her dogs (or her pups); she sold them by posting their photos on her website - first come, first served at that point; she didn't provide any health guarantees over and beyond the fact that a vet the day she posted their photos had proclaimed them healthy; she sold pups at prices that depended on their coloration ... She did test the parents for CEA and X-rayed their hips. She did tell me that one specific litter was bred to play flyball. I started to worry about getting a dog that was too high strung for its own good (I have seen Border collies like that!). I opted not to buy one of her pups. I've met a lot of her dogs since then; some have been nice, others have been fearful from birth.

 

I decided I'd rather find a pup from working stock. All of my prior Border collies had been from working stock, and I started to worry that breeding them for other purposes (like for sports) might come at the expense of some of the characteristics that I valued. I did locate a breeder who registers with ABCA only. She allows her pups to be registered with AKC on whatever it is they now call "ILP", but only if purchased on a spay or neuter contract. I'm sure there are many like her who are willing to sell both to qualified pet homes as well as for working purposes. She raised her pups in her home; only has one or two litters per year; parents are house dogs as well as trialing dogs (and win at the Open level); she provided a health guarantee (patterned ofter the model proposed by USBCC: http://www.bordercollie.org/contract.html ); temperament is as important a consideration in her breeding program as is working ability. We brought home a lovely pup who has been everything we might have wanted in a companion. With one exception.

 

He's had joint problems. First it was his front legs; he had (very expensive) surgery for OCD at six months of age. Now he's been lame in his hind leg for a month and the ortho vet suspects hip dysplasia. She'd hoped that the exercise regimen he's been on as part of his OCD rehab would help this, but it hasn't, leading her to tell us yesterday that she fears that only surgery will help him. He's a big boy, so in all likelihood, if that's the issue, it involves total hip replacement - also extremely costly. (In my next life, I'll purchase pet insurance as soon as we bring a dog or pup home). Yes, one parent was OFA'd "excellent" and the other "good", but that's still no guarantee. On our part we did everything the regular vet and the breeder recommended to avoid joint problems - no jumping higher than his elbows, limit play (like "fetch") that might stress his joints, and so forth. We will certainly seek a second opinion before rushing into surgery, but at this point (9 months old), I'm afraid that agility isn't in his future. On the breeder's part, she has done everything (and more) that you'd expect of a responsible breeder, including regular communication with me, offering to refund the purchase price when OCD was diagnosed (even though this wasn't covered under the contract), offering to take the pup back, offering to replace him with another pup.... But we're too attached to want to relinquish him.

 

I do harbor concerns over how all the months of not being allowed to play with other dogs will affect his response to them. He loves other dogs - but when he first went lame in his front legs at age 5 months, the vet told us we shouldn't allow him to play with other dogs. OCD surgery, three months of rehab, same message. Lameness in his hind leg now, same message. If he does have surgery, followed by rehab - well, that will mean during his first year of life, he won't have been allowed to play with other dogs for seven or eight of those months. I'm hopeful that he'll come out of all this with his sanity intact, largely because he's got such a great personality, but it's a lot to impose on a pup. If he does develop reactivity toward other dogs, I hope it's something we'll be able to work our way back from.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that you can do all you can to stack the deck in your favor by buying from a good breeder and doing all the things you're supposed to do with respect to training and socialization, but there are no guarantees in life. Bad things can and do happen to good pups. (The ortho vet yesterday, in complimenting our pup's personality, said "it never happens to the ones who deserve it!").

 

I do have a friend who got a pup at about the same time we got ours, only she got one from Mid Atlantic Border Collie rescue. Charlie's a lovely dog. I don't think he's a Border collie (I think he was advertised as a "Border collie mix"), but frankly I think he suits their lifestyle infinitely better than a Border collie would. He was about six months old when they got him (he had all his adult teeth, anyway), and what they saw was what they got: a sweet dog who loves people and gets along well with everyone. (In a previous life he must have been a salesman). Not a dog I'd see as a prospect for obedience or agility competitions, but that was obvious when they got him. I'm certain that if they'd told them that they wanted a purebred Border collie for dog sports, that they'd have ended up with a different dog. Certainly he's been as healthy as can be.

 

I still don't regret getting a puppy, because the "companion" part of the equation was important to us. But if I had my heart set on an agility dog, there are a lot of uncertainties that could be reduced by rescuing a young adult from a reputable organization.

[ShoresDog]

Alchemist, that was a very good post. I'm sorry to hear of your pup's joint problems and hope he gets through them. Dogs are living things, and indeed their future is never certain.

[ejano]

I certainly don't begrudge a person a pup if they feel that is the best way for them but, after my experiences, I feel that a person who knows what they need in a dog has a pretty good chance of finding a dog to fit the bill in rescue.

 

Agreed. All of our dogs to date have been rescues, or just plain "pound pups". If I hadn't gotten the ridiculous idea that I wanted the experience of raising a puppy, we would have gone straight back to rescue for another dog. Admittedly, I don't ask a whole lot of the dogs we've had in terms of performance in any venue. I hope to do some rally obedience with Robin and some beginning herding with Brodie but don't aspire to a very high level of competition. I could have done the same sort of thing with any of the rescue dogs we've had. Ladybug has the prey drive of a grizzly bear and would have easily taken to sheep. Scotty would have done well in obedience.

 

With any dog, pup or full grown in a high level competitive environment, it's like buying any purebred animal for performance -- one's choice is based on breeding and appearance -- after that it's a crap shoot and one should be prepared for a less than expected result - Granted, if one wants a dog for a specific purpose, then that's their right but it seems along with it goes the responsibility for some happy ending for the dog if things don't work out. Perhaps that is one reason why so many good dogs end up in rescue - they simply don't meet their owner's expectations. We've been fortunate - our pups are everything they should be and a little more and we're becoming a very happy little group. We commit to the mutts when we bring them home and all of our dogs (Scotty being the lone exception was struck by a car) - lived to be 13 -15 years old. Alchemist's approach to his or her pup is the best that any dog could hope for...a responsible owner who loves them and cares for them.

 

Liz