Input, Please

[BustopherJones]

I would be interested in insight from those more familiar with Border Collies than myself, as Annie is my first BC.

 

Recently, we have run into a digestive problem with Annie. She is on a special prescription dog food (Royal Canin Intestinal HE), and has been using the same food for years, so it is not a change in diet. Recently, her stool seems to alternate from normal to soft to loose, then cycles back again. This behavior seems to coincide with the spate of miserable weather we have had recently and the fact that the back yard is either a lake or a mudhole, restricting her ability to go out and play "outball" (her favorite game, where we toss a soft squeaky ball with a lacrosse stick) during the day. She has been to the vet twice, and her stool has been tested, with no abnormalities detected; we also report the status of her stools to the vet on a daily basis. We have tried giving her Maalox (twice per day) and omeprazole (once per day) at the vet's suggestion, but it does not seem to help. The vet suggested that the problem may be psychosomatic, i.e., she is bored because she cannot get out to play, and this is affecting her digestion. (Just what I need...a neurotic Border Collie...) The vet suggested that the boredom might be mitigated by putting her into a doggie day care center during the periods where she cannot play outside; we have one in the area that has an excellent reputation (the vet ruled out another in the area that has had some problems), and while it is not cheap, we can find a way to pay for at least a couple of half-day session per week.

 

With all that said, for those of you who are knowledgeable about Border Collies, what do YOU think? Any constructive input and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for your help.

[Barb Scott]

Our vet told us that Bryte was a psychosomatic water drinker after she had a ton of tests for drinking so much water; that was easy to fix by just putting out limited amounts of water several times a day. If you can afford day care, maybe give it a try. Otherwise, what about teaching her some tricks in thw house so she doesn't have to go outside in the bad weather. Our BCs love the bad weather; R/T's favorite game is running and sliding on the icy deck. I'm not so fond of it...

Barb S

[Root Beer]

Interesting diagnosis. One that would certainly make me think and look at my options thorougly.

 

Dean has on and off digestive issues, and a couple of times a year this gets more serious and he needs a round of metronidozole (spelling?). The vet thinks that these episodes could be triggered by high levels of anxiety.

 

Now, Dean does have some anxiety issues - noise phobia, separation anxiety, and some generalized anxiety. He is actually on medication and his anxiety is very well controlled, but of course sometimes he experiences high levels of anxiety.

 

One thing that I found helped Dean a lot is adding digestive enzymes to his food. This really seemed to clear up the frequent alternation of the consistency of his stools.

 

Now I am supposed to give him a probiotic supplement any time I know that he has experienced an unusually high level of anxiety, as well, and the vet and I are hoping that will work.

 

I'm not 100% convinced that there isn't a physical component to his digestive woes, even though nothing can be detected, but for now I'm going with my vet's opinion. If he has problems again, I might get a second opinion.

 

You might want to try some digestive enzymes. It can't hurt and it just might help.

 

I would also try to change up my indoor activities when the weather is too miserable to go out. I would do more clicker training, work on teaching my dog some complex behaviors, and try to give the dog more of a mental workout when I can't provide the dog with the opportunity to run.

 

The day care is an option, but, of course, that would introduce new challenges into the mix. I probably would not go that route first - I would try the enzymes and an increase in mental activities first. But it's definitely something to consider.

 

Another option, which I know is expensive, but might be worth consideration, would be to get a second opinion from another vet.

[SincereArtisan]

I do not recommend daycare for adult dogs. I used to work in a doggy daycare facility, and honestly 90% of the dogs admitted there were nothing but balls of stressed out pooch. The owners did NOT care about overcrowding the dogs, they just cared about making the most buck. There were days where we would have 50+ dogs in a room barely under 2000 sq. ft. I'm not saying that YOUR doggy daycare is the same, but consider this: The people who work there are not making much, so it is doubtful they have no more experience with dog behavior other than when a dog wags it's tail it's happy. When I worked at the daycare, none of my coworkers could spot a fight about to happen like I could, and it was doubly stressful.

 

As for the digestive issues...has your vet considered IBD? (Inflammatory Bowel Disease--NOT IBS) Ido has it, and before we got her well-regulated her symptoms were as you described...loose stool off and on, but it often had a green tinge to it as well. She is also a compulsive water drinker, and we have to call her off it or she'll drink herself sick. When the IBD was the worst as a puppy, she was also vomiting. The only food her stomach will accept is Iam's Low Residue formula...its a veterinary diet. We also had to start her on low doses of pred as she adjusted to this food, and gradually weaned her off. She tested positive for IBD when she was spayed, during which they took a sample of her intestine and sent it off to the lab. If Annie needed a dental anytime soon, or anything else that requires putting her under anesthesia, it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for it.

 

Ido's IBD was difficult to get under control as a puppy because she also ate poop a lot. I had to keep her under lock and key, glued to my side, and even today she'll sneak a bite if I am not watching. Is it possible your girl could be scarfing her leftovers?

 

Also, we've tried switching Ido's diet once or twice while she was stable, just to see if she could handle another one for expense reasons...She'd be fine with a gradual switch, then suddenly two months later her stool would go soft again. Iams Low Res has been the best for her so far.

[urge to herd]

Perhaps Annie is ingesting mud when she picks up the ball in the yard? That would affect my digestion! You could perhaps put down sawdust chips or bark in the area of yard where she runs.

 

In any case, I'd go the route of mind games inside: hide her toys for her to find, lay a trail of some of her kibble at meal time for her to find, teach her some new tricks, if there's a room inside your house, perhaps an empty garage, tie a toy to line, tie the line to a stick and go fishing for border collies. If you want more ideas, do a search for tricks or indoor games or the like. I know it's been discussed

 

Day care might work, and it might not. Not all dogs are happy at day care, and as you say, it can be costly.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth

[Jedismom]

I believe that stress does cause some stool changes. My anxious dog usually has mushy stools when on a walk, but not when she goes in our yard. She is anxious and excited on walks.

 

Kristine, what is the name of the enzyme product you use?

 

Whether the doggie day care idea would be helpful depends on your dog. Dogs who are social and get along with all kinds of other dogs would find it fun. My Cadi who likes to be in charge, would find it stressful. I like the idea of incorporating some training in short spurts throughout the day. But Jedi would say that his day is not complete without a good run. In fact, he prefersthat it be cold, wet, and rainy. After all, what's a little mud to a border collie.

[afrancis]

Recently, her stool seems to alternate from normal to soft to loose, then cycles back again. This behavior seems to coincide with the spate of miserable weather we have had recently

 

Bustopher,

Does she eat the same amount when she's had less activity? I wonder if the low activity level combined with the same amount of food = loose stools. Maybe during low activity periods you could try feeding her 2/3 to 3/4 of her normal rations, and perhaps combine it with pumpkin (for a fuller feeling) and yogurt (to settle any stomach issues). Also, when the weathers bad, try games and training sessions inside the house, like Kristine suggests. We do this with Skye: games include hide 'n seek, go fetch and play keep away with numerous named squeaky toys, chase around the main floor (aka re-arranging the rugs ), etc.

Re: doggie daycare; has she done this before? Do you know if she would enjoy the interaction? As others have just mentioned, this might just add unwelcome anxiety.

 

Maybe she would like a buddy? How do you feel about Possums?

Ailsa

[Root Beer]

Kristine, what is the name of the enzyme product you use?

 

Dogzymes Digestive Enhancer. I give it to all of my dogs now. It might seem a bit pricey, but they only get 1/4 teaspoon per meal, so one container lasts a long, long time, and it's very cost effective.

[bc friend]

Bustopher,

 

Is it possible that she's become lonely while you and DW are working? I know it's been almost a year since you lost Missy and you had some concern then that Annie might have some adjustment problems. I had a cat who stopped eating a few months after losing a life-long companion - at my vet's suggestion, I brought home a cat that had been abandoned there. My cat quickly responded to having another cat and lived many more years (and the adoptee cat is the one I still have). Maybe trying daycare would help to see if Annie needs a companion. Just a thought.

[Lenajo]

We have tried giving her Maalox (twice per day) and omeprazole (once per day)

 

Both of these meds are typically for stomach/upper GI upset - excess acid, ulcers, etc. Omeprazole (prilosec) has a side effect in many humans of causing diarrhea and gas, not fixing it.

 

Since her problem is loose stools, I don't understand why she's on either of these drugs.....?

 

I don't like dog daycares for Border Collies unless they are extraordinarily well run and the dogs actually have structure, including being kept away from dogs that play too rough, as well as given time to rest.

 

Since the problem centers around the rainy days, perhaps it would be just as well to cut her food in half on those days, add a cup of canned pumpkin for filler. You might also start building a balance of activity into everyday life so that "good for outside" days are not so obviously differnet from "bad weather, stay home" ones. It's easy to become habitiated to only one type of exercise, but that's not good for man or beast.

[haleigh]

When Joy had digestive problems as a puppy, I started her on Prozyme. It works so good with keeping her normal, all the dogs and cats get it.

 

 

I don't like dog daycares for Border Collies unless they are extraordinarily well run and the dogs actually have structure, including being kept away from dogs that play too rough, as well as given time to rest.

 

I second that! When mom worked at the old training facility, it was one of the best well-run places for day care. The dogs were rotated inside and out, walked, and they wouldn't let a certain amount of dogs in the ring at a time. Unless they knew that certain big dogs got along with certain little ones, they would play separately. Unfortunately, not all places were like that. I know someone at our old dog park who's dog died (an aussie) because it was so crowded and out of control. I think she said there was about 40 dogs in a 50' by 50' area. Another dog was so overwhelmed, it attacked her dog, and the manager was too busy with all the OTHER dogs to notice.

[Pippin's person]

Would it be possible to put Annie into some kind of class that might give her some new activity--maybe a companion obedience class or beginning agility? Does she have some doggy friends who she likes to play with? Could you take her somewhere to play ball (like a baseball field or park) where it isn't a mudhole or an ice rink (I sympathize with this problem--our backyard is the same). Or maybe you could think of a few new tricks to teach her and work on those when the weather isn't good and she can't go outside. We weren't able to go on our normal daily walks for a couple of days because of ice and so we had a number of indoor sessions where we played mind games--seemed to tire them out pretty well.

[JohnLloydJones]

... with the spate of miserable weather we have had recently and the fact that the back yard is either a lake or a mudhole ...

According my authority on the subject, Senneca, border collies are all-weather dogs. This confirms what I observed while growing up; the sheepdogs were out bring in the sheep regardless of the prevailing weather. When the conditions make our usual routine impossible (e.g. flooded and impassable paths or dog park that is a mud bath), I improvise as best as i can. This usually involves trudging around getting soaked to the skin, but she gets some sort of outing and sanity at home is maintained.

 

On the dietary side, I tend to the more natural approach; plain yoghurt mixed with boiled rice (as a side dish) is settling for sore tummies and works well for us. But then, we're not a family of pill poppers.

[Root Beer]

But then, we're not a family of pill poppers.

 

The mental image that brings up in my mind is quite comical.

 

Sorry, tangent . . .

[juliepoudrier]

Another thought: Sometimes when dogs have to hold it for a long time, the stool will then be loose (this happens to humans, too, for that matter). Is it possible that on rainy days Annie not only doesn't want to go out, but doesn't want to do her business, and therefore holds it longer than she normally would, with the end result being a looser stool when she finally does go?

 

J.

[BustopherJones]

Is it possible that she's become lonely while you and DW are working?

DW does not work; she is home with Annie during the day. She has tried to keep Annie busy with indoor games, but Annie is used to going out. Our concern with the conditions in the backyard lies in the fact that Annie is so fast and makes such sharp turns that she could injure herself in the slippery conditions. The New England weather has been insane the last few weeks, ranging from torrential downpours to Nor'easters to deep freezes (more significant snow and sub-zero wind chills forecasted for this week). Annie goes out regularly to relieve herself, regardless of the weather (unless there is thunder), so holding her stool is not an issue.

 

As to all the other input, thank you; I will consider all of the possibilities that have been suggested, and review them with my vet.

[bc4ever]

Don't know if this would apply, but Scooter had digestive problems for almost a year, off and on, with no apparent reason. Numerous trips to ER vets, x-rays, etc, showed nothing. I started keeping a log of when he had his attacks and I began to see a pattern. During stressful times (when my father was dying, when DH and I would argue, etc.) he would end up sick. In the beginning, we also used to leave his bowl down for him so he could eat whenever he was hungry. I know...bad idea. I noticed that when he got stressed out (like when anyone left the house--not just us!) he would run to his food and inhale what was in the bowl. He was a nervous eater! Feeding him twice a day, making sure he's calm when we feed him, taking the bowl up as soon as he was done, and being more aware of how our moods affected him seems to have fixed the problem. He hasn't had a flare up in over a year now. HTH.

[Pippin's person]

Don't know if this would apply, but Scooter had digestive problems for almost a year, off and on, with no apparent reason. Numerous trips to ER vets, x-rays, etc, showed nothing. I started keeping a log of when he had his attacks and I began to see a pattern. During stressful times (when my father was dying, when DH and I would argue, etc.) he would end up sick. In the beginning, we also used to leave his bowl down for him so he could eat whenever he was hungry. I know...bad idea. I noticed that when he got stressed out (like when anyone left the house--not just us!) he would run to his food and inhale what was in the bowl. He was a nervous eater! Feeding him twice a day, making sure he's calm when we feed him, taking the bowl up as soon as he was done, and being more aware of how our moods affected him seems to have fixed the problem. He hasn't had a flare up in over a year now. HTH.

 

What a great problem-solving story!