BC on a chain. . .

[Brandon M]

I agree Alicia. You dont want to outright insult the people of course. I was just suggesting an offer to buy the dog because she is a nice looking dog, and prosperia is a big border collie fan. Not to buy the dog to "take it off your hands".

[Alicia]

Oh I know, you were commenting on how cute she was, she is at that. Not sure what they will think someone offering to buy and unpapered, probably spayed dog from their yard though They'll do one of three things, think its strange, be relieved and gve her up, or be angry and insulted by breedin more into its true intention.

 

It's a tricky situation. I myself have had a similar situation with a goat..except this doe was neglected, her companions had died from the owner's neglegance. I had been caring for them when I boarded at that pasture but when I left.. that was pretty much the end of their care.The other two died before I found out they were being neglected.. I couldnt leave her there so.. lets just say.. she disapeared.... I havent seen her since.... But this was a bit different as I was there everyday, I knew the owner and the direct cause of the other 2 goatie's passing and couldnt stand to let her have the same fate (one died of tetanus and the other of overeaters) I also was on slightly bad terms with the idiodic owner and knew he would never relinquish her to me willingly..so.. I wish I had been able to save the other two, All three would've.. disappeared.. if I had known in time.

[prosperia]

I can pretty much bet on them getting offended if I suggest that I think her care is less than adequate. Thats why I said that I was worried about them calling my office and complaining. Most people just dont think that there is anything wrong with what they are doing. Its an easy solution for them. A way of getting out of having to put any time and effort into working with their dog. "Oh, well she doesnt stay in the yard". Well duh! she's bored, and lonely. What do you expect. Either they dont have the time, or whatever their excuse is, nobody wants to be told that they are being careless.

That website has a flyer that I can leave about chaining dogs, but people dont change their ways just because someone gives them a flyer that says they are wrong. They just get pi**ed.

[MaggieDog]

Well they might just be waaay under educated. It wasn't too long ago that people were appalled by the idea of a dog in the house, and chains were a normal form of containment.

 

I think sometimes people jump to conclusions in situations like that because we can't see how any one could not *know* what it takes to keep a dog happy and healthy, but it does happen.

 

If you notice on the DDB site, they do try to take the tact that people need education first before deciding that they are intentionally neglecting their animal.

 

Just offering to take the dog on walks "because she looks like she'd enjoy exlploring like my dogs" or offering to hook them up w/ another runner system and house "since I bet she gets kind of jealous that the other dog has more room and hogs the house" might be the best way to work through this issue. With that tact you're more likely to get some interest or at least not outright offense.

[Root Beer]

Originally posted by prosperia:

people dont change their ways just because someone gives them a flyer that says they are wrong. They just get pi**ed.

You're right. I could see giving the flyer to someone who you know is really considering the issue carefully, but just giving it to someone offhand is, I think, a bad idea.

[KJ]

I will respectfully disaggree with a few points made here. As an owner of a previously penned dog (2 years 24/7, at 2 different owners houses) who has barrier aggression, was unsocialized, has impulse control issues, OCD and a few other problems, penning 24/7 IS as bad as chaining with exception that obviously, the penned dog is protected from outside intruders. Shep came into our lives b/c I asked if I could walk him. They said "Do ya want him?

 

That said, some dogs don't seemed to get so affected no matter what the treatment when being chained or kenneled. It still doesn't make it right.

 

Take Casey: we heard of her on chain. Went to visit her and she was sweet as pie but in horrid physical condition. We went to take her during a heat wave but the owner was there so we asked to visit and chatted cordially. Then we said we were going to take her, he said "why, she can't walk" She was 14. We took her straight to a groomer where they just shaved her down to reveal her bones. We gave her a good year even if she went totally blind within 4 months. So she wasn't affected behaviourally, but the neglect she suffered was immoral. Her resilience was staggering.

 

Take Dakota. This is a success story of a DDB volunteer. She worked on these people for 2 years and finally, with much effort, they gave him to her. I saw him at the HS shelter I volunteed for. He had bullets lodged in his nose and imbedded under his skin. He had an infection in his broken tail so they amputated it. There were other surgeries involved. He also, could only walk in one direction. He was so used to being on the chain that even off the chain he could only walk as if he was still on it...in circles. He was nuerologically altered from his experience. Utterly heart breaking. So why did these people want the dog? For target practice? With much love and Prozac, he was adopted. They posted pics of him at Christmas happy as a clam and a real fatty.

 

Lastly, people about a mile away from us keep there dog penned 24/7. I'd see it all the time, season after season. Finally after finding out about http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/home.html

I mailed the dog owners the letter the web site has available for print for concserned people to hand out, explaining why it's a bad idea. The dog owners seem to *care* for the dog in there own way. They have a heat lamp in the pen! Regardless, I sent it. I saw no improvement so sent it again within 4 months or so. Now, the dog, is often out altho, he still sleeps in there. Bless him. I'd say that is a pretty effective letter.

 

Anyway thank you for caring about this really really cute dog. I so know what you are feeling! It's a very frustrating place to be.

Let us know if anything changes.

[Brandon M]

I dont believe in putting a dog in a kennel or crate because you're worried about wild animals. Maybe thats because all the wild animals where I live cant really hurt a dog (except maybe a mountain lion or cyote, which we never see), and we dont have stray dogs here. I rather keep my dogs on a leash for a couple hours than put them in a 10x10 or smaller kennel. I only crate/kennel my dogs at night when it's bed time, but I will put them on a run or leash for a couple hours a day cause they dont mind and I dont want them getting in trouble when im gone.

[Alicia]

My Lab mix was kenneled in a probably 8X15 pen for the first 2 years of his life. He was taken out daily to be played with but other wise was completely in that kennel. He never had any of these problems. I didnt like it, that's why I have him rather then my, now ex, boy friend. But it didnt harm him at all, and to me really wasnt that big of a deal. If a dog is happy, healthy and doesnt mind it, and it is the best the owner, who loves them, can do, then I dont find it bad.

[Susan M. & Skipper, Annie and Ben]

Maria, have you contacted your local animal control or humane society directly to find out what exactly they regard as neglect? Could you show them your pictures of the dog to show them that her coat condition is poor and she's under weight? Can you see if her collar is rubbing and has made her neck sore? If the collar is digging in or worn the fur off, can you get a picture of that, too? What is needed to document neglect in your area?

I hope you're able to find a way to help.

[mydogMilton]

Chaining a dog is cruel and sad... but, in some ways, I think keeping an owners rights safe are more important.... well in this case. Compared to some of the dogs i see chained in my area she seems to have a nice little yard. At the very most it's clean and has grass, she seems to be well fed.

 

 

I wouldn't (unlike some other illegal opinions...) push it much farther than a friendly chat in which you show a willingness to be of service rather than just apearing to be a nag to the owner (even though you might not be). Most dog's situations get worse when people nag owners causing them to panic and put the dog in a worse situation (hiding the dog away was an excellant example), placing it in a shelter where the chances of it living the rest of its life kenneled with other unhappy barking dogs is most probable, or simply letting it loose in which situation it would most likely die anyway. My point --- unless you're willing and able to help this dog (or you know of an honest organization or friend who can) don't bother. Neither you or the owner will want her on your hands and she will probably fare worse... I've seen a lot of dogs become miserable like that.

 

If this, however was a situation of blatent abuse where the dog was underfed or beaten, the best course of action would be quick removal (since the chances of the situation being able to improve would be significantly higher).

 

Hope this helps somewhat....

[mydogMilton]

And Susan... snooping around TRYING to make the dog "look" neglected seems untruthful. Baaaaaad idea.

[mydogMilton]

Sorry, I know its me again, but just thought of my own little story...

 

Bo was a lonely five year old gelding, who had lived most of his life ALONE in a pasture. For horses (which are herd animals) being alone is one of the most dreaded thing in their lives. One night he cried (neighed) for hours b/c he had been locked out of his barn... it broke my heart, and from then on i kept hoping that in some way I could help him. Well what do you know but a couple weeks later I look out of my window and see three horses in our pasture instead of two... making sure my eyes weren't going bad I check it out only to find dear Bo "socialising" with my other horses from the other side of the fence

 

To make a long story short Bo's owner comes to pick him up and I'm reallllllllly nice to this guy, I tell him how much everyone loves Bo, how my horses would love another pal...etc.

 

That same night this guy stops over with money and a proposition to have Bo board with us well he'll provide feed, a saddle, bridle, and anything else we'll need. My jaw practically hit the floor. Turns out the guy had good intentions but just didn't have time to work on Bo. Now all I have to do is work with and train Bo so when the owner sells him he'll be able to get a good home. Maybe you can find a similair oppurtunity in your situation...

[painted_ponies]

Just to clarify, I certainly am not suggesting that a dog should be penned or kenneled for long periods of time. Dogs, especially BCs, should be with their person. But during those times when a dog must be confined, kenneling or penning in a safe enclosure is a better alternative than chaining, for the reasons I listed above.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Alicia:

If a dog is happy, healthy and doesnt mind it, and it is the best the owner, who loves them, can do, then I dont find it bad.

Oh, there are definitely worse fates out there. But I think there are lots of dogs who lead half-lives at best. I've never understood why someone would want a dog and then keep it outside all the time, unless you also tend to spend your days outside.

 

Of course I'm not actively interacting with my dogs all the time when I'm home, but I can't imagine not having their companionship around the house, even if it's just dozing by my feet while I read. As pack animals, dogs want and deserve to be with their people.

[Firchow]

This reply will be wildly unpopular and I'm confident that I'll be shown the errors in my thinking, but I can't stand it, so here goes:

 

You should mind your own business.

[maedog]

Hi, I am new to this forum. First post today. So here goes. Here's something in my skimming of this topic that I didn't see talked about: In my neck of the woods it is illegal to keep a dog chained up outside. Animal control will come and cite the owners. I've called dogs in that I've seen tied up outside and Animal control responds promptly. Has this avenue been investigated? At the very least call Animal Control and have them swing by and check on the dog. Personally, I believe it is cruel to leave a dog chained up outside.

[KJ]

Hi and welcome. Some states do have anti-chaining laws:

 

Chaining is prohibited in the following communities:

 

Fairhope, Alabama

Little Rock, Arkansas

Maumelle, Arkansas

Okaloosa County, Florida

Chatham County, Georgia

DeKalb County, Georgia Carthage, Missouri

New Hanover, North Carolina

Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina

Lawton, Oklahoma

Big Spring, Texas

Electra, Texas

 

The following communities permit animals to be chained for a limited period of time:

 

Kern County, California

Los Angeles, California

Denver, Colorado

Washington, D.C.

Dania Beach , Florida

Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Hollywood, Florida

Oakland Park, Florida

Orange County, Florida

Palm Beach County, Florida

Pembroke Park, Florida

Bloomington, Indiana

Marion, Indiana

Dodge City, Kansas

Lawrence, Kansas

Leavenworth, Kansas

Overland Park, Kansas

Topeka, Kansas

Wichita, Kansas

Jefferson City, Kentucky

Louisville, Kentucky

Baker, Louisiana

New Orleans, Louisiana

East Longmeadow, Massachusetts

Battle Creek, Michigan

Saint Paul, Minnesota

Creve Coeur, Missouri

Camden, New Jersey Lower Township, New Jersey

Ocean City, New Jersey

Sea Isle City, New Jersey

Wildwood, New Jersey

Wildwood Crest, New Jersey

Canandaigua, New York

Albuquerque, New Mexico

Laurinburg, North Carolina

Scotland County, North Carolina

North Royalton, Ohio

Bartlesville, Oklahoma

Multnomah County, Oregon

Oak Ridge, Tennessee

Austin, Texas

Norfolk, Virginia

Northampton County, Virginia

Smithfield, Virginia

Virginia Beach, Virginia

Linn, Wisconsin

Racine, Wisconsin

 

The following ordinances protect animals other than dogs:

 

Tucson, Arizona

Southhaven, Mississippi

Raytown, Missouri

Allen, Texas

Waco, Texas

 

MD had a proposed bill that came up last year but it was dropped in the House.

 

It read:

"Prohibits a person from tethering a dog outside and unattended and establishes penalties. The tethering prohibitions include:

 

* Between midnight and 5 a.m.

* During a weather emergency.

* Tethers that restrict the dog's movement from shelter and food.

 

Really frustrating.

 

Regarding "minding your own business:" That is one way to say, "it's not my problem, man". For me that's such a loaded opinion that I can't begin to address it. It just boils down to, do you want to or are you able to see past your own nose to help a person or animal and create a better situation hopefully, or do you want turn a blind eye and let someone else deal with it, or not. It certainly is the easiest solution.

[maedog]

Yes, this is the law in Pima County: (Paraphrased by the Humane Society)

 

"Chaining Pets is Illegal

Be advised that chaining or tying your dog is illegal in Tucson and Pima County. A dog that is chained or tied is at the mercy of the elements; it may become entangled in the chain itself, unable to move or reach its source of water - death can occur quickly in the desert heat. The dog's access to food, water, shade and shelter may easily become restricted or eliminated because of a chain or tie-out.

 

Besides being dangerous, tie-outs and chains can cause frustration and aggressiveness, increasing the possibility of dog bites. The safest alternative to a chain or tie-out is a securely fenced yard. "Escape artists" may be safely confined in covered kennel runs."

[Firchow]

Originally posted by KJ:

Regarding "minding your own business:" That is one way to say, "it's not my problem, man". For me that's such a loaded opinion that I can't begin to address it. It just boils down to, do you want to or are you able to see past your own nose to help a person or animal and create a better situation hopefully, or do you want turn a blind eye and let someone else deal with it, or not. It certainly is the easiest solution.

Show me where the original poster provides anything besides wild specualtion on the plight of the dog.

 

For all she knows (as far as I interpret it) that dog spends its nights inside eating a yummy RAW diet, gets all-natural treats, and goes on 5-mile jogs each morning.

 

That's why I say mind your own business.

[Maralynn]

The situation this paticular dog is in may not be a good one, but just because a dog is tied does not mean it is being abused.

 

My grandparents have a lab mix. He was a stray that was dropped at their farm. And he is often tied up. In fact, if you drove past their place once or twice a day, you'd probably always see him tied up. BUT, they do take good care of him. He has been neutered, vaccinated, and is on HW preventitive. He is well fed and exercised, talked to and petted. Is it the best possible situation? Probably not. But the alterantive was Animal Control, where he may have found a better home, but more than likely not.

[prosperia]

(((((sigh)))))

Yes the dog does not appear to be blatently abused, but for a BC it seems like such a sad existance.

[Daviid]

Prosperia,

 

I've called animal control several times, I'm glad I didn't mind my own business....I can't when it comes to "possible" animal neglect.

 

I've done this several times when I saw "uncertain situations"

once a dog on a short chain, animal control came and talked to the people, They were given options and a time frame to improve the situation. Returning to the area, I saw a large kennel run, better housing for the dog. Animal control called me and told me they'd keep an eye on the situation.

 

Another situation were the family decided to turn the dog over to a shelter.

 

Prosperia...can't hurt to just ask nicely. Just say you were concerned about the dog...no harm done with that.

 

Or ask your local animal shelter to check on the dog. They will talk to the people about your concerns, and caring for the dogs better.

( they don't have to know it was you that called animal control)

 

all this speculating does nothing...

[concrete]

Hey Firchow I appreciated you commenting on this if for no other reason than it reminded me that it's better just to read this stuff and shake my head than to actually try to point out that stuff like stealing other people's dogs is bad.

 

Kevin

[K2R]

I'll throw in my 2 cents because neglected dogs on chains is one of my biggest pet peeves.

 

Although I think stealing this dog would be wrong, the suggestions to send the owners the Dogs Deserve Better letter might, if nothing else, improve the situation for this dog.

 

Many, many people do still believe living on a chain is just fine for a dog. What they don't know, and as is pointed out in the DDB letter, is how dangerous it is for the dog. The point that got thru to one of my neighbors (to whom I sent the letter anonymously) was the possibility of her dog being stolen and sold to a testing lab or to dog fighting people as pit bull bait. And since this family has several small children, the possibility of causing aggression in their sweet GR was enough for them to reconsider and I've never seen that pup tied in the "back 40" ever again. Fortunately for this pup, it was obvious the owners cared and a little bit of educating went a long way.

 

The DDB organization has local contact people on their website, so perhaps contacting the one closest to where the dog is and asking them to contact the owner would help????

[painted_ponies]

I can't imagine why people think minding their own business is a virtue. I live in a tiny rural community in the Deep South where nobody minds their own business. We feel perfectly entitled to make sure that if somebody needs help, they get it, no matter what their species.

 

Even when I lived in town, I had someone call Animal Control on me once. At the time, I was keeping my dogs' water bucket inside the open door of my storeroom, out of the sun, so the water would stay cooler. People passing by on the other side of the fence couldn't see it though, so someone called Animal Control to report there were a couple of dogs with no water in someone's back yard. The officer was very nice, and I was more than happy to invite her in and show her the water bucket.

 

And I was thrilled that I lived in a community where people care about dogs they don't even know. :cool: