Coyote habits, dangers, etc..

[Tranquilis]

I think the urban attitude towards saving all the predators will change as more attacks occur.

We've got a suburban cougar, too. But it's a solitary wanderer, not part of a breeding population.

 

As for "saving the preditors," I don't think it's so much an issue of a soft spot for preditors, as it is a combination of fewer people ready, willing, and equipped to shoot a coyote, and the fact that most urban & suburban locals have strong firearms discharge regulations. Which, of course, makes sense - If you've a thousand yards between houses, and more, you're much less likely to accidentally hurt someone if you take a crack at a coyote and miss, than you are in an environment where there's only a hundred yards, or less, between houses. Even professional hunters and trapping are often discouraged in urban environments, due to the risk. What if domestic animals or children run afoul of the traps? And even professinoal hunters can miss. Live traps are a possibility, but IIRC, they don't work all that well on coyotes, due to the afore-mentioned smarts.

 

Knotty problem. Theoretical best solution, of course, is to remove the food sources, but that's hard to do, especially as many suburban areas have thriving crops of deer, rabit, and woodchuck.

[1sheepdoggal]

Anyone ever had a instance where a yote will come around to a domestic dog while she's in heat? In Az when I lived there, that was always a constant worry, as I lived in the burbs and the foothills, and they were equally bold and comfortable in either place. I use to see them alot, just hanging out on golf courses, not the skirts, or edges,

"on" the courses watching the golfers, and getting into the trash alot. Not to mention in the back alley at night, small groups of them raiding the trash, running through the front yard, having their little yoty parties yipping and carrying on. Even when there was a large dog in the yard, barking his fool head off at them. Pretty bold little creatures, I wouldnt put much past them.

[Mojo]

I live in the heart of metropolitan Los Angeles in the densely populated Hollywood Hills, which is at the foot of the wilderness preserve called Griffith Park, which is home to literally thousands of coyotes. It is extremely upsetting to open my gate to take the dogs for a walk and find a coyote staring at me...unmoving, and it's happened more times than I care to count in 2006-2007. There is a rumor that someone in our neighborhood is idiotically feeding one particular pack, and if so, then their total lack of fear of humans, or cars, or lights, or sounds, or dogs is a direct result of that. Mojo will be snarling/barking and going crazy at the end of the leash trying to scare it off, our security light has flipped on, and nevertheless, the thing is just staring, looking at us. Then I start to hop up and down and scream myself, but pretty much succeed only in scaring Mojo, and the coyote just seems to *lose interest*, not get scared, and trots off calmly.

 

Every week there is a new "lost dog" or "lost cat" poster up in our neighborhood, and it is quite certain what fate with which those poor animals met if they were lost for any length of time at night. A realtor friend of mine who sold a house to a celebrity couple noted to me that she had repeeatedly told them NEVER to leave their little Yorkie in the yard unattended for any length of time, despite the yard being securely fenced...the couple not only left the Yorkie when they went out for dinner one evening, but had even put it on a tie-out...so it couldn't get away. They returned from dinner to find what was left of the Yorkie still tied to the stake....a totally true, first-hand account, and sadly not an urban legend.

 

I never leave my dogs unattended in the yard, ever, anyway, but I really don't feel that it is okay, in the middle of a city, to be accosted by a coyote at my own front gate by a coyote or two or three who have no fear of me. If this were the country, I might be more accepting of it as par for the course. In 2007, I think the problem was particularly bad because we had an incredible drought AND wildfires that burned a significant portion of Griffith Park, and so the coyotes lost their homes and were starving--and so they were becoming visible even in the middle of broad daylight--mornings, early afternoons--dodging cars, etc., trying to find food and water. They were coming down out of the hills right into *flat* urban neighborhoods, even down on Santa Monica Blvd (completely concrete, sidewalked busy shopping area). It was so bad one night that six or seven were running back and forth in the middle of our street, yipping, as if *they* owned it...people were afraid to go out on the street to get in their cars or go in their driveways. Poor Mojo did his best to bark from the window at them, but they couldn't care less.

 

The main problem is that in Los Angeles, it is against the law for a civilian to shoot or otherwise kill or even trap a coyote, and it is actually the policy of the Wildlife department that they generally try not to disturb the coyote population at all, as it is said that by removing (either moving or killing) the dominant mating pair from a particular neighborhood, immediately thereafter, a flood of new coyotes will enter the area and actually make the problem worse, as the dominant pair was keeping all the others out of their territory. The transplanted ones will also make the problem that much worse for the recipient neighborhood, and thus it becomes impossible to decide which neighborhoods should get an influx of new coyotes, as it isn't fair to anyone. Thus, the department will not generally intervene on behalf of pets, but if a child or adult has been attacked, then they go ahead and trap and euthanize as many as possible in one area.

 

When it comes down to it, my own safety and that of my pets is far more important to me than the lives of the coyotes. It is obviously not possible to live in "harmony" with tens of thousands of starving coyotes, who would be happy to kill and eat me and both my dogs in a minute if they had the opportunity--if you check the L.A. wildlife reports, there are several cases of local coyotes attacking humans, and the one that stood out in my mind was that of a pack surrounding and attacking an ADULT male human walking with his large-breed dog in the early morning, for example, but he and the dog were both able to get away with just scrapes and bites. Although the coyotes were admittedly here first, I am not exactly about to abandon my home so that the coyotes can live in my yard, carefree, and it's not like Los Angeles as a whole will ever stop expanding outwards into previously unpopulated areas, nor will currently populated areas ever be "given back" to nature, short of a nuclear holocaust, which will effectively kill all the coyotes, too.

 

Thus, I think the comment above about city-folk being "Bambi lovers" is quite inaccurate. There are animal-rights supporters and environmentalists in all areas, but at least in our city neighborhood, I have not yet met someone who wanted to "save" the coyotes, with the exception of the misguided person who is possibly feeding them, but that is not even confirmed, as I've never spoken to that person myself--it is rumored that he is quite eccentric (lives in a huge house on a hill by himself, etc.). The general sentiment from people I *have* spoken with is to want to get rid of the coyotes, as about 85% of the people in my neighborhood own dogs and cats--the only possible disagreement was *how* to get rid of them (trap and move them vs. trap and kill them). Yes, I love animals of all types, but I, too, was all for trapping them and humanely euthanizing them last year when the problem was at its worst--it hasn't been nearly as bad this year with all the rain we've been having, such that I may see a coyote once every other week, but last year, I was seeing MULTIPLE coyotes every single day. I think certain members of our neighborhood, however, made enough of a stink about it that something *was* done, because all of a sudden, I didn't see a coyote for at least a month or two towards the end of last year...but I've already seen a couple in 2008. With all the rain we've had this year, though, hopefully the coyotes won't be too bad of a problem in the coming winter.

[painted_ponies]

In the boonies, coyotes associate humans with death, and stay away, or at least out of sight, because they're smart. In an urban/suburban environment, however, they quickly learn a different lesson, which is that they generally don't need to fear people. In SoCal suburbs, there have been several recent cases of coyotes attacking dogs at the very feet of humans - usually in small packs.

 

I don't think it's so much that coyotes learn not to fear people that causes the problem. The coyotes I met weren't a bit scared of me, nor I of them, and we didn't have a problem. Well, maybe they had a problem and that was why they felt the need to follow me and fuss, but I digress.

 

I would not have thought it possible that a coyote would attack a grown person, or even a child. Coyotes just aren't that big, for one thing. But I've read statistics from California that claim coyote attacks on people have occurred, so I suppose I can't dispute that it happens.

 

Just seems to me, though, given a choice, a coyote would much prefer NOT to tangle with a big ole predator five times its size. I wonder if, in urban environments, it's that coyotes lose not their fear but their habitat and normal food sources, and this pressure accounts for the occasional attack on a person.

 

Little dogs and cats, well, it makes sense that coyotes would eat them. That's why my cats and small dogs live indoors. Although the bobcats have something to do with that, too.

[MagicGirl]

I could talk all day about coyote encounters that I have had over the years, but there has been plenty of that here.

 

My concern that do don't see that anyone commented on is the animal body parts that your dog is coming back with. The one and only time that my dog was found with a deer leg she came down with Pancreatitis and was very sick. My vet said it was common for him to get several cases a year usually during hunting season. Hunters would get careless on how they disposed of spare parts.

 

So please if you catch your dog with animal body parts take them away immediately and dispose of the parts where another dog can not get to them.

[Bill Fosher]

The only advice that I've seen so far that I would quibble with is to encourage hunting or trapping of coyotes.

 

Yes, that's right. The shepherd in the woods doesn't think that the only good coyote is a dead coyote. Hunting and trapping should be targeted at individuals that are causing the problems. If you kill the ones that are not causing problems off in the woods, the troublemakers breed and teach their litters their bad habits.

 

The coyotes we have here in southwestern New Hampshire (and probably the ones you have in Connecticut, BustopherJones) are very different animals than the ones in the west. Rather than topping out at 45 pounds, ours go right up to 75 or so. They come in lots of different colors -- not just the brindle marking that you see out West. There's a lot of speculation and some science that says they may actually be red wolves or a mixture of coyote and red wolf. They hunt in packs. They would be able to kill a border collie.

 

Thing is, they usually wouldn't bother. They could also out distance the border collie, and would normally rather run away than fight. If a Border collie picked the fight, it would lose for sure. They're very adaptive and will habituate to human surroundings pretty quickly if the things they need are present: food, shelter, and cover.

[Tranquilis]

Thing is, they usually wouldn't bother. They could also out distance the border collie, and would normally rather run away than fight. If a Border collie picked the fight, it would lose for sure. They're very adaptive and will habituate to human surroundings pretty quickly if the things they need are present: food, shelter, and cover.

Problem being is that when you've got a resident population of coyotes, they will respond to any shortage of their preferred prey animals by shifting immediately to whatever *is* available, and that's domestic animals. Any shortfall in food, and they don't pack up and leave; they move people's dogs and cats to the top of the menu. And even without a shortfall in prey, they'll still opportunistically attack domestic animals. So having a resident population means that even if you don't have a problem now, you've got a guaranteed problem at some time in the future. That argues that, especially with the larger Northeast coyotes, it's sensible thing to push them away, or remove them entirely, from urban and suburban neighborhoods.

[bcnewe2]

Yes, that's right. The shepherd in the woods doesn't think that the only good coyote is a dead coyote. Hunting and trapping should be targeted at individuals that are causing the problems. If you kill the ones that are not causing problems off in the woods, the troublemakers breed and teach their litters their bad habits.

 

I totally agree with Bill. I've always heard that if you have coyotes that are not causing harm. removing them will only set the grounds for a new ones that could possibly be "bad" ones. I'm not going to test that theory.

 

We've never shot or trapped any since living here. I see them all the time. I hear them every night. I've lost 2 sheep to coyotes. That was within the first 2 weeks of bringing my sheep here. At that time all I had was a guard llama. Poor guy didn't stand a chance. The fields were probably 2 feet high and things were just right for predators to hunt their prey. Since the LGD's, all we do is hear or see them. I wish them no harm, but want no harm done to my livestock either. My BC's will not leave the front of the house at night. We let them out to do their potty thing and they stay right in the front of the house. Don't know if that's coincidence or they know, but it works for us.

 

The one that came close to us while I was lambing looked to be a small or young GSD size. It also looked young.

 

Today on the way back from town a very large bobcat ran right in front of my car. Is was at least the size of Mick who goes 44 lbs. The paws were huge. I was passing Ft. Chaffee which is an army base that's on the other side of the road from us. It's huge, and unpopulated. I hear that one of the biggest bucks in AR's history was shot there this season. Unfortunately for the hunter it was an illegal kill so he didn't get to keep it. But it tells me that there is a good ecco system in place around here.

 

Wild life is abundant here, so are the farmers. They've been getting along for a long time. I sure don't want to rock the boat.

 

Kristen

[Tranquilis]

Wild life is abundant here, so are the farmers. They've been getting along for a long time. I sure don't want to rock the boat.

That's rather a different environment from, say, central LA, or Newark, DE, or Central Park (yes, coyotes have been spotted there, too!). Certainly I'd agree that where there's substantial wildlife and space, there's no real issue.

[mbc1963]

Problem being is that when you've got a resident population of coyotes, they will respond to any shortage of their preferred prey animals by shifting immediately to whatever *is* available, and that's domestic animals. Any shortfall in food, and they don't pack up and leave; they move people's dogs and cats to the top of the menu. And even without a shortfall in prey, they'll still opportunistically attack domestic animals.

 

Yes, living in the northeast, I have to agree that this is true. In the last ten years, the number of "missing cat" posters has gone from maybe 1 a year to 1 a week. The cats are being eaten, regularly and predictably, in my neighborhood. Picture this neighborhood: two major commuter train stations to Boston within half mile of each other, houses on 1/4 acre lots, densely packed urban center less than 1/4 mile from me, across the river. There is no wilderness here for coyotes to hunt. (The places I walk the dog are the closest we come, and they're scattered among developed tracts.) The coyotes eat cats, small dogs (one was taken from his back yard last fall), McDonald's leftovers... yeesh! We were walking our dogs around the local elementary school playground the other morning, and we're pretty sure we saw one dart away from near the dumpster, where it was picking up trash.

 

I grew up here, and we did not have coyotes in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s. So, people may have originally gotten along with coyotes - in the 1700s and early 1800s - but not for many generations in these major urban areas. Woods were woods, and city was city. It's only very recently that coyotes have moved back into inhabited areas around here. Wild turkeys, fishers, deer, bald eagles, and moose are here now, too. I'm as soft-hearted an animal lover as there can be, but I'd vote for getting the coyotes away from the elementary schools and the McDonald's parking lots!

 

Mary

[Bill Fosher]

My point was that if you encourage hunting and trapping in the general sense, it is not the coyotes in Central Park or the McDonald's parking lot that are going to be killed. You can't safely hunt or trap coyotes in a suburban setting, so, in fact, that may be why they are there. That and the abundance of food in the form of cats, dumpsters, the rodents attracted to human habitations, and the occasional small dog.

 

I'm not sure quite where you are, Mary, but coyotes love those rail corridors. They'll get on the railroad tracks and go for miles and miles. The trains give a lot of notice when they're coming, and otherwise they are free of people. The worst coyote problems I ever had were when I worked for an outfit that wintered sheep in Ipswich, Mass., on a farm that was bisected by the T. In the winter we could see coyote tracks in the fresh snow along the tracks every day.

 

You could say the buggers were commuting to work themselves.

[Tranquilis]

You can't safely hunt or trap coyotes in a suburban setting, so, in fact, that may be why they are there.

That was the point I was making earlier - Urban coyotes exist in ever increasing numbers because of lack of human predation.

 

I actually *prefer* that rural coyote populations exist. They serve a valuable function, and I don't think we need to do anything about them at all, in broad terms. But urban coyotes need to be addressed in some effective manner.

[painted_ponies]

The coyotes we have here in southwestern New Hampshire (and probably the ones you have in Connecticut, BustopherJones) are very different animals than the ones in the west. Rather than topping out at 45 pounds, ours go right up to 75 or so. They come in lots of different colors -- not just the brindle marking that you see out West. There's a lot of speculation and some science that says they may actually be red wolves or a mixture of coyote and red wolf. They hunt in packs. They would be able to kill a border collie.

 

A little OT, but strangely, SC coyotes are the little reddish-brown Wiley type - not much bigger than Julie P's Lark. There was a private hunt club in the western SC mountains that imported western coyotes years ago, so that's what we've got.

 

We make up for the size of our coyotes with the size of our bobcats, though.

[kelpiegirl]

My brother, when stationed out west in the military witnessed GSD patrol dogs who took off after a coyote bitch in heat, and when he got to the coyote, the dog was killed by the pack. Apparently, that is not uncommon.

 

I am in NY, and we have pockets of Coyotes everywhere. My brother once shot one- he showed it to me. What an absolutely gorgeous, and healthy looking animal, teeth as white as can be, good coat. I am still annoyed that he shot it. The coyotes near me are on the large side. Coyotes are very territorial, so the wandering you see, is usually an animal on it's daily hunting trek. They mark by defecating- and that is a sure sign that you have a resident coyote population. One thing that should be said, is that Bobcats also eat domestic cats. We have Bobcats around, but they are about as tough to see in the wild as a snow leopard in it's environment.

 

If you see Coyote scat, and are walking your dog along, do yourself a favor, and keep your dog on leash, and perhaps not walk there anymore. I had a coyote show himself to me; I had just put the leash on my dog, and there he was staring as he loped in front of me. Turns out I was close to a den. When you end up close to a den, your dog can be in real danger. Just be aware of your surroundings, and leave your dog on leash if you are not sure.

[1sheepdoggal]

 

 

A friend of mine has this fella, (she's permitted up the ying yang just to keep him,) but says keeping him on the property has been the best coyote deterrent she's ever had. His BF is a ACD.

[kelpiegirl]

Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.

[painted_ponies]

Wow, Darci, that is one impressive pussycat!

[1sheepdoggal]

He's very sweet, and loves to hug. And you should hear him purr!

[Tranquilis]

Dang.

 

That's one big kitty!

[BustopherJones]

Anyone ever had a instance where a yote will come around to a domestic dog while she's in heat?

Interesting...there appears to be a need for a sex offender registry for coyotes...

[1sheepdoggal]

[jamesqf]

I grew up here, and we did not have coyotes in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s. So, people may have originally gotten along with coyotes - in the 1700s and early 1800s - but not for many generations in these major urban areas.

 

The reason there weren't coyotes in the east before the last few decades is that there were other predators, like wolves and bobcats. The early settlers killed those off, leaving a vacant niche in the ecology, which coyotes filled.

[M.L.]

A friend of mine has this fella, (she's permitted up the ying yang just to keep him,) but says keeping him on the property has been the best coyote deterrent she's ever had. His BF is a ACD.

 

Beautiful cat - he'd keep me from coming on her property, too!

[Guest jackieandryan]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&...b7-f95922813eb2

[BustopherJones]

Since we're introducing our cats, meet Tucker: