How to teach tennis ball fetching?

[jamesqf]

Niki and I seem to have a little misunderstanding on the basics of this tennis ball business. I think it's supposed to go like this:

 

1) Human throws ball;

 

2) Dog happily chases after ball;

 

3) Dog brings ball back to human; cycle repeats.

 

Now 1 & 2 we're pretty much ok on. 3 is the problem. Niki either figures she only needs to capture the ball, then drop it so the human will immediately throw another, or else it's a chance to play the "keep the ball away from the clumsy human" game. Any suggestions for getting #3. She hasn't responded to praise for partial retrieves, and she's still on a diet so I don't want to do food rewards.

 

Also, does anyone have experience of farsighted dogs? She can apparently spot & watch a standing deer a quarter mile off, but miss a tennis ball a few feet away if it has stopped moving.

[Guest jackieandryan]

Play fetch with another dog that already knows how to in front of your dog.

 

That worked like a charm for mine.

[RaisingRiver]

Put your pup on a long line. Throw the ball not very far, as she gets it, say 'bring it' or similar (not come) and reel her in. Hopefully she'll still hold the ball. Training drop is also important. Her reward/treat is that you will throw it again. If she doesn't bring it to you, game over. If she tries to play keep away, game over and you know that you need to work on drop it. I taught my BC to fetch in the hallway in my house due to the raining winter weather, but it really worked great - no distractions, nice corridor, etc. I was able to just call her back to me and take the ball from her. She caught on pretty quick.

 

You can treat her with her own kibble, ie. you're feeding her throughout the day via treats of kibble instead of just all during mealtime - you'll want to do this either right before she eats so she's motivated by the kibble. This won't make her fatter since she's still taking in the same amount of food.

[vaporflowers]

I agree with attaching a long leash. In addition to that, running away from the dog can be a fantastic motivator for them to chase you. Run away with treats in your hand. When the dog gets close, toss some treats towards the dog until he drops the ball, then pick the ball up and immediately wing it away again. I try to only do this 2 or 3 times at first before stopping; you don't want the dog to lose interest on his own. Instead, you want to leave him wanting more fetch. Do several short sessions rather than one long one.

 

If he starts bringing the ball back some of the time, make the game conditional on his completed return. When you run away, if chooses not to follow you or starts playing keep away, end the game with no comment or turn your back on the dog. Many dogs will, at that point, practically shove the ball into the back of your legs trying to get your attention. If that happens, start running away again to encourage the dog to bring it all the way to you. If he goes and chews on it all alone, go get another ball and start playing with it by yourself. Make it seem like you've got the best toy ever... toss it in the air, bounce it on the ground, run around with it. Don't chase him and continue the keep-away game. Let him know that bringing the ball back to you is the best way for the fun to continue.

 

Good luck! Hope that all made sense, it's early here.

[sweet_ceana]

I don't mean to hijak the thread, but I have a question to add. Ceana likes to hide from the ball. When she brings it to us she will place it behind something or in something so that the ball "cannot see her." Our remedy for this problem is we have her place it in a metal box at our feet. Does anyone else have a dog that trys to sneak up on the ball or is mine just weird?

NINJA DOG

[clara]

Ceana likes to hide from the ball

 

HAHAHA! YES! Oh well, threads get hijacked all the time so I'll join you in this hijacking for a moment. Ling has a whole routine with hiding her ball from herself (or hiding from the ball, whichever way you think of it). If I stop throwing it, but don't put it away, she'll find a pocket in the ivy, a corner behind her crate, anyplace where the ball can't "see" her and poke it in. Then she'll sit in front of it, look away very deliberately for 5-15 seconds, then POUNCE on it, like she snuck up on it or something. It is the funniest thing to watch and cracks all my friends up. It's like her own little game that she invented. If she's around still water, she'll also stand in the shallow part and hold the ball under with her paw, then let it pop up and pounce on it like it might get away. Crazy crazy dog. I absolutely love the fact that she isn't entirely dependent on me to entertain her if she's in the mood to play, and can find ways to keep herself busy without being destructive or annoying!

[Beach BCs]

Ceana likes to hide from the ball

 

Too funny!!!!

 

Georgia is 50/50 on retrieving a toy. She loves to play "found it, now you go get it for me". She also seems to think that Tex is her butler. She'll run up to the ball/toy, grab it and do the "I got it and you didn't dance" drop it and wander back past me with a look as if to say "have the boy bring it back, I have to go look at something imaginary." Tex happily goes to get it. If she does this more than twice she gets to go sulk inside and watch me and Tex play. (Tex will retrieve anything from a nasty yucky tennis ball to a nice clean sock I've dropped on my way from the dryer. And he'll follow me all the way to the living room picking up after me as I go, delivering it in a nice little pile in front of the sofa. )

 

Usually if I bring Georgia back out she becomes much more agreeable about retriving her toys. She has a great 'drop it' and 'give'. Sometimes my husband will play "Let me have that", more or less "Keep Away" only on his terms... But I've told him never to say 'drop it' or 'give' when he's chasing her around. She knows that this game is different from fetch.

 

I tried using the long line but she was more than happy to drop the ball, grab the long line and play tug instead. And that really hurts when you're not expecting to play tug. If it's just me and Georgia playing I'll have a few tennis balls in my pouch so as soon as she gets back to me with a ball in her mount I throw another one. She enjoys the chase.

[sweet_ceana]

Then she'll sit in front of it, look away very deliberately for 5-15 seconds, then POUNCE on it, like she snuck up on it or something.

MINE TOO!!!! She also plays this game with bones on the bed. We have to pretend we are not watching otherwise she will stop. Viewing this game is forbiden when it is played with a bone.

 

And this:

hold the ball under with her paw, then let it pop up

is what we play when I take a "relaxing " bath. How could anyone relax without a ball being shoved into the tub?

[BCBERRI]

Does/has Niki EVER brought it back? Does she know to bring it back or is she just being stuborn? The reason I ask is my Ruger did this for quite some time. He knew to bring it back, but chose not to. So I succumed to him and would carry two. One to throw and then another to throw after he chased the first one. This however bacame quite a bad habit once he started his SAR training. So in order to fix this we would simply play with one ball and if he didn't bring it back the game ended. I only asked him once to "bring it here". If he didn't, I simply ignored him until he did. It took some patience but it worked like a charm. Now on the other hand if she simply doesn't know/hasn't ever brought it back then I totally agree with the long line. It is a great idea. I have used this method with my little Eskie who simply didn't know how to play when we got him. He got the idea very fast and now loves to fetch. We also would play in my long hallway. I would close all the doors and toss the ball down it. This way the dog can't really take off and pretty much has to bring it back. This was how we worked on it on rainy days. Hope this helps.

[pammyd]

I did it the lazy way

Sat on the sofa or in the chair in the garden

Chucked the ball/toy

If Ben brought it close enough for me to get it without getting up then chucked it again

if not I just ignored him - read my book

 

Also out in the park he watched his friends bringing back balls

He learnt v quickly that when a ball was thrown then there were often treats around so he would run over to theperson who had thrown the ball - of course all the other dogs were chasing the ball but no Ben was sitting at the feet of the person who chucked the ball (and of course he got a treat)

But he did learn what he was supposed to do and if another dog didnt bring the ball right up he would go off and get it and bring it back (I could just hear him saying "hurry up with them treats, sigh - do I have to do EVERYTHING round here?"

 

As for the farshightedness

Its just the ball is no fun when it is not moving - chase is over

She will find it just fine once she realises that to make it move she has to bring it back

[simosa]

When we started playing fetch with jeeves he would do the same, we found found out if we threw the ball in the dirrection we were walking he knew we would get to him and the ball so there was no point in him returning with it. However if we throw it to the left or right and even behind us he would fetch it and bring it back. Clever little bugger.

[jamesqf]

Does/has Niki EVER brought it back? Does she know to bring it back or is she just being stuborn?

 

Some of both. She has never brought it back to my hand, but will often bring it back close to me. If I have only one ball, she usually plays a keep away game. This can be either hold ball in mouth and act like you want human to chase, or keep it between your paws, sometimes giving it a little nudge towards the human, and grabbing it back before he can get it (usually - I'm not THAT slow!), or hiding it under a paw & looking away...

 

If I have two balls, she will often bring one back to within ten feet or so, then drop it and wait for the other to be tossed. About a quarter of the time she either won't bring it back at all, or only brings it part way. And oddly enough, it's usually the green squeaky ones that get brought back, and the orange & blue ball that came with the flinger that gets left. Maybe it tastes bad?

 

Anyway, I tried ignoring her if she didn't bring it back, and that seemed to help a little. It takes a while: I'd have to go do something else, then a few minutes later I'd look around and see a ball back where I was throwing.

 

It's odd that she wouldn't know about bringing back. My neighbor's two (that she lived with for a year or more) are both good fetchers. The younger one is obsessive about it; the older used to do it about as much before the younger one got so good.

[bailey44]

I think you have some great suggestions here. If your dog knows to bring it back, then I think you're on the right track. Every time I thought that Polly had just settled down to a "normal" game of fetch, she would up the ante. Like you, I tried the two -ball method, and like your dog, she would take one and play keep away, or wander off and look bored. I realized that there were times when I needed to exercise her without these antics because I was short on time, and didn't want to deal with The Knucklehead Who Messed With Me Until My Blood Pressure Went Up. I would look on with envy as my sister-in-law's poodle brought the ball back perfectly and pushed it with her dainty nose to ensure that it was perfectly in reach for the thrower. Thousands of times. Seriously. *sigh*

 

In our case, I realized that every game had to be different to challenge her. Over and over boring fetch makes her lose interest. It brings out the imp in her... Maybe that's the case with your dog?

 

Here's what I've tried and had good success with:

 

Combining fetch with tug. I hold a tug toy that she rarely sees in one hand and toss the ball with the other. She never knows when I'm going to offer her the yummy tug toy, so she brings the ball back just to see if makes a hit on the tug. Lottery for puppers. tug. release. then she knows it's time to fetch the ball. good times.

 

Combining fetch with hiding the ball. I have her fetch a few times, then put her in a down stay and hide the ball in another room, or under leaves or something outside. She finds it. Big Party. Regular fetch for a few times--and so on.

 

I don't know if your dog is reliable off-leash, but we've made progress there, so I combine fetch with our walks. We walk in a dog-safe public park around soccer and baseball fields. I throw the ball as I walk on the path. She's way ahead of me, so she catches it, brings it to me, then runs ahead again for me to throw it. Park people clap at her spectactular spectacularness. I am humbled that folks think I have anything to do with her good training. (they are also impressed that we use a small Mountaineer football for this to slow the bounce. go! 'Eers!) This is our favorite way to play fetch, I get tons of exercise and she gets to make those all-out-with-border-collie-glee -runs. She. Loves. This. Game. I trained her to do this with a 25 ft flexy leash. She caught on so fast, it didn't take long to ditch the leash. She is so focused on this game, she ignores squirrels 2 inches from her nose

 

Each dog is so different. Once I knew that she knew to bring it back, I tried the long lead to make her mind if she was being stubborn, and that just made her sullen. I tried to ignore her, and she would just go off with the toy and try to destroy it. I just did trial and error until I found what works for us--and for us it is making each fetch game as different as I can.

 

I hope this helps!

Charlene

[jamesqf]

I don't think she's bored - she always seems eager to play, and ready to go after the next ball. If I don't have the ball, or if we're playing with two and I haven't thrown the second because she didn't bring back the first, she'll stand there urging me to get on with things...

 

I wish I could get her to do the tug, but she's never been interested in even trying. Hiding? I think she's far-sighted or something, because the ball has to be moving, or she has to see about where it came to rest. If it takes an unexpected bounce, she'll look where she thought it was going, even though it's in plain sight ten feet away.

 

She's not good off-leash. She gets into things, and seems to tune out the rest of the world. Luckily we have plenty of room at home for ball-chasing and such.

[Bo Peep]

Well, first I made sure he knew the word "tennis ball" and was focused. If we only had one and he didn't bring it back and kept pacing looking like "hey, throw the ball.......go get it....." I ignored him and every once in awhile would say "tennis ball" then he'd get all hyper and finally go get the ball. Usher is trained to hold the ball in his mouth. So he retrieves and sits and hands you the spitty ball. Not good for tennis ball fetch, but good for obedience and also service dog work. Makes for one spitty tennis ball, though.

[jamesqf]

Well, she's making a little progress, at least with the 2-ball version. Now she'll bring the ball most of the way back, and usually drop it about 10-15 feet out. She's usually moving fast enough so that with luck it rolls close to me. If not, she seems to be sort of getting the idea of "bring the ball": after a while she'll go back, pick it up and bring it about 2 feet closer before dropping it again - which I suppose is progress :-)

[bexie]

My DH has made a pretty intensive training variant of fetch that Molly seems to love. He puts her into a down stay and does whatever he wants with the ball for a while. She is so attentive. If in an area with good space, he really pushes her to the limits by walking away from her with the ball where she can see it, maybe even throwing it. In the beginning, he had to do a lot of reminding her to stay and sometimes even putting her back into place. Then when he's ready, he releases her and throws the ball, or throws the ball then releases her. That's one BC in action. She LOVES it and is eager to start over.

 

Last time we could have her off leash at the beach, he even trained her to go off in a direction when he points and sends her then down when he says (we've been trying to teach her down stay at a distance and despite distractions in prep for stock work anyway). So he combines that with the game and can send her off in any direction and throw in any direction. So Molly gets way more exercise than us on a casual walk on the beach. She really does LOVE it. It's fetch but with so much more challenge and it makes her think and listen and learn. She also tends to want to tease him when she comes back with the ball--he just uses here and drop it and lots of praise. She wants the game, she has to do it on his terms.

 

Your BC needs a brain challenge as well as a physical one, so try to find a way to mix some mental games in with it.

 

BTW, Molly knows my rules of the games are different than DHs. Ball must be returned where I can reach it or I stop playing. She tries to tease me and it is game over. If she drops it out of reach, I just stretch my arm towards it and say "I can't reach" a few times. If she doesn't bring it, I ignore the ball until she does. Usually she ends up putting it on my lap. Your BC can learn the rules and can learn that different players have different rules. DH often plays keep away with her so she does the same back. But when she gets the command to drop it, she knows to do it. They understand each other and Molly understands that I don't play that way.

 

 

So keep trying to show her what you want. She'll get it eventually. You just have to work her slowly towards it and stick with it.

 

I second the suggestions of working on it shortly before meal time and using her regular food as treats. I've done that for obedience with Molly and she actually loves it. We don't do it every time, but she enjoys the challenge and on occasion it can get her excited about eating when normal she doesn't really care about food.

 

Whatever you do, make it fun for both of you.

 

Good luck!

bex

[JohnLloydJones]

Now 1 & 2 we're pretty much ok on. 3 is the problem.

 

Umm, that's prety much a perfect description of Senneca.

 

Play fetch with another dog that already knows how to in front of your dog.

Result:

 

Throw ball for other dog.

 

Other dog eagerly chases the ball.

 

Sennca bounds after other dog and demonstrates her instinctive herding abilities until the other dog is so confused that it forgets what it was doing.

 

Senneca loves to toss and catch a tennis ball herself -- for example in the living room, so it bounces on the coffee table. How nothing has broken yet is pure luck. She also likes to de-fuzz the ball, but actually fetch it for me? She thinks that that's a job for labs, not border collies.

[hsnrs]

We started with throwing the ball up in the air at close range. That way she would return it or we could grab it before she left with it. Never have had a problem with her keeping it as she wants you to throw it over and over again. N

[HighDesertSpice]

Ceanna & Ling sound like goofy nuts! Too funny....

 

About bobbing balls in the water....Hailey started doing this this summer....but she slowly & studiously pushes the ball under and plays with it...and the water and the motion nearly put her into a trance....I think she's calming herself! It IS a nice break....

 

From my experience:

 

'Bout your dog: is he or she a tad young yet? Over and over, people post with sadness that their dog is not the fetch meister they imagine....and the dog is <2 yrs. For Hailey, this kicked in with a vengeance when she was > 2yrs. No help was needed at all. Until then she chased & chewed and mucked around...but she didn't fetch and had no interest in actually getting the ball and bringing it back. Now I have the opposite problem...keeping her interested in other things so as not to become a fetching zombie.

 

'Bout the dog bringing the ball ALL the way to you....if he or she doesn't, turn away and do something else. or starte walking as if that is what you're going to do now. The fetchers get it....and will eventually bring you the ball. OR you can relent and bring little string cheese bits with you, and reward them for this.

 

OR you could teach "find it" in the house first....let the dog have a LOT of time to find it. Let the dog SEE where you hide it first...and over time they'll catch on.

 

BUT if you have a young dog....scrape together a little more patience

 

Now, Oreo is a perfect fetcher....stops 1.5 feet away and toss/rolls the ball to me. What a nice boy!

[jamesqf]

'Bout your dog: is he or she a tad young yet? Over and over, people post with sadness that their dog is not the fetch meister they imagine....and the dog is <2 yrs.

 

Niki just turned 3, so I don't think it's an age thing. She has opportunity to see other dogs doing it. She stays with the neighbors (her previous family) when I'm out of town, and one of their Viszlas is the original fetch monster.

 

I think she has the IDEA of bringing it back, she just doesn't want to give up the ball. Sometimes she'll trot around with it in her mouth, sometimes she'll come to within 10-15 feet, then lay down with it between her paws and look at me. She'll give it little pushes towards me, then pull it back, or hide it under a paw. She's just daring me to come take it away :-)

 

 

 

 

OR you could teach "find it" in the house first....let the dog have a LOT of time to find it. Let the dog SEE where you hide it first...and over time they'll catch on.

 

Not much good (or maybe interest) at that, I'm afraid. Even when I toss it, she has to at least see it moving when it lands. If it comes to a stop before she sees it, like for instance if it lands behind a pile of wood, she'll just ignore it.

 

BUT if you have a young dog....scrape together a little more patience

 

Oh, it's not really for me. If she's not interested, I wouldn't force her. But she likes the chasing part, and I like being able to give her more running exercise. I don't really dare let her off leash on hikes, so she's limited to my pace, a fast walk or sometimes trot.

[HighDesertSpice]

Niki just turned 3, so I don't think it's an age thing. She has opportunity to see other dogs doing it. She stays with the neighbors (her previous family) when I'm out of town, and one of their Viszlas is the original fetch monster.

 

I think she has the IDEA of bringing it back, she just doesn't want to give up the ball. Sometimes she'll trot around with it in her mouth, sometimes she'll come to within 10-15 feet, then lay down with it between her paws and look at me. She'll give it little pushes towards me, then pull it back, or hide it under a paw. She's just daring me to come take it away :-)

Not much good (or maybe interest) at that, I'm afraid. Even when I toss it, she has to at least see it moving when it lands. If it comes to a stop before she sees it, like for instance if it lands behind a pile of wood, she'll just ignore it.

Oh, it's not really for me. If she's not interested, I wouldn't force her. But she likes the chasing part, and I like being able to give her more running exercise. I don't really dare let her off leash on hikes, so she's limited to my pace, a fast walk or sometimes trot.

 

Oh, I see. She's teasing you.....About "find it": this is a game where you don't toss the ball....you fold it into a towell for example, and she has to dig it out. Then you fold it up in the towell and place the towell somewhere else....she doesn't have to visually track the ball as she would when tossing the ball. (She may well have a sight problem - just guessing from your descriptions.) Glad to hear you're not fixated on a fetching dog....you may not have one! Hmmmm, wondering if you could work on letting her off leash....but that's another discussion....

[jamesqf]

I think she might be far sighted: she fumbles around with the ball when I toss it close to her, but on hikes she'll watch deer that might be a quarter of a mile away.

 

I do want to work with her off-leash, it's just that there isn't a really good place to start working on it. Every place we can go has miles & miles of places to run, with no boundaries, and coyotes & other critters that might think of her as an evening snack if she does decide to take off. (Which she did with a previous family: was gone over night & found by a forest ranger the next day.)

 

It's not that she doesn't know about "come", it's that she gets to concentrating on an interesting scent trail, or maybe chasing something, and she tunes out everything else. I've been thinking a good whistle might break into her concentration - she really reacts to squeaky tennis balls. Otherwise, she may be getting a dog GPS for Christmas...

[HighDesertSpice]

she gets to concentrating on an interesting scent trail, or maybe chasing something....

 

'Sounds like she's a very lucky girl....such a wonderful world to explore.... And lucky you...such fun things to "have to" work out....All the best on your adventures!

[jamesqf]

And lucky you...such fun things to "have to" work out....

 

Though in truth I could use a little less of the "fun" right now - too much work :-(

 

Part of the problem is that I was spoiled by my old dog, who if it wasn't for the shedding would have been perfect, but in many ways was a totally opposite personality to Niki.