Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 I live on a small farm in Missouri and lately I have been having trouble with our chickens. some animal keeps killing them so I was thinking if I bought a guard dog that it would scare the animal off. Now I've always had a love for border collies, they (besides a doxin) being my favorite breed of dog. But I know of their natural instinct to herd and I was wondering if it would be the right breed of dog to put with my chickens and ducks, (since I don't want the dog to herd the birds.)So is a border collie a good candidate for this job?? Please give me your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 A BC is probly one of the worst you could use for guarding. MOST, not all, are just not fighters. And to get one that wouldn't herd the birds would be a crap shoot. Maybe a BC with all the BC instincts bred out of it wouldn't herd but still worthless for guarding. They might bark but that's it. Plus they tend to be on the light side as far as stature and weight. If the critter getting your birds are any size at all the BC wouldn't stand much of a chance with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 well im pretty sure the animal is a racoon, and im not really worried about the gaurding part i think just having a dog in there would scare him away. So even if we got a puppy and kept him with the chickens you still think he would want to herd the? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 If you really wanted a guard dog, you'd be better off getting one of the livestock guardian breeds, though I don't know if they would bond to chickens and protect them the way they do with hooved stock. I know Becca has said that her maremmas also protected the ducks that roamed in the field with her sheep, but the key may have been that the presence of the dogs guarding the *sheep* had a secondary effect of protecting the ducks. If the chickens are being killed at night, then the answer is a sturdy house or pen that has all opening blocked with chicken wire at the least, and perhaps even rat wire (aka hardware cloth), including the top being covered to stop climbing over or fly-ins by owls. If they are being taken during the day, then I would suspect either hawks or wandering dogs. For the latter, just keeping the chickens behind poultry netting (you can get electronet for poultry just like people use for sheep, it just has smaller "squares") could deter dogs and other canid type predators and might even work at night to keep coons, possums and foxes at bay. My border collies do go out in the yard where my bantams free range during the day. I have one retiree who likes to herd the chickens. The fact that she stays close to the chickens I think does help protect them from hawks (I had a string of hawk losses a couple of months ago). Because they are behind 2 x 4 welded wire during the day I don't worry about dogs. At night they are closed in a house that is coon and possum proof. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 well at night we have a house that the chickens do go into and we close the door but the accidints have been happing at dusk befor they all go in for the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc friend Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 My bc's (except Katie who won't herd anything) have always herded ducks so I suspect chickens would be herded as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 and another important factor is money, i need a good dog for this job but I cannot pay a fortune for one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 There are some good guarians out there. I think the maremma sheepdog is one of them. Good with sheep and goats but not sure about chickens..? http://www.all-animals.com/maremma/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneen Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 My BC mix, Sydney, was surrendered to a rescue for herding and killing chickens... I can't imagine a BC would want to be left alone outside at night to watch chickens (even if they didn't herd them). ~Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 I saw a show about a lady who kept Kuvaz for gaurding her poultry. I dont think a BC would be of any use to you, and would probably make the problem worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fooshuman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Personally I think that getting a BC for guarding chickens is a bad idea. I have no real reason for my opinion, just that it doesn't sound like a good mix. (For chicken or border collie) I'd get a have-a-heart trap and try to find where the critter is getting in your coup. They are pretty affordable and alot less demanding. You can either put down, or release the critter somewhere less populated. *edit* You can always ask a Raccoon hunter to take care of the problem for you. They are pretty easy to spot, just look for the hound cages in the back of the pick ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 A BC pup left with chickens would probably herd end up herding them, and could quite possibly kill some. The herding behavior is a BC instinct that is self rewarding - nothing is better for them then herding something. You could look into a rescue for a guardian breed such as a Great Pyrenees. Or you could go to a local shelter and find a mid to large size dog. I wouldn't keep it with the chickens, but often just the fact that there is a dog around will keep the coons away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 BCs just don't make for good poultry guards, its hard enough to teach them to leave the poultry alone( I know by personal experince, and jasmine still can't resist the occasion to chase my wifes pigions,although the pigions tend to make a game of it and will fly about 5 or 6 feet off the ground and jasmine will "herd" them from one end of the pasture to the other) I have had raids on my poultry house by vitually all the potential predators that we have around here,from bobcats to hawks,,,raccoons can be very persistant about finding ways into a poultry house so first of all you have to definatly have a tight house. If your losing birds at dusk and outside your poultry house then chances are its not coons but some ambusher,cats and foxes are very good at this,you can normally tell by the remains if you can find them,,,they will haul the catch off a ways to a position they feel safe and leave a nice mess of feathers for you,wings are typically found intact. Raccoons tend to be much more aggressive about their slaughter if they can find a way into you poultry house and leave alot of mutilation in their wake( Coons normally will hunt in family groups and kill everything they can grab and not be very efficient about eating their kills leaving alot of partial bodies scattered about. Are the predations taking place in close proximity to your poultry house? I have tried ALOT of methods to dissuade predators will very limited success until I came up with a fairly simple solution. I have electicity to my poultry house so i installed an inexpensive radio on a timer. Abit before dusk it comes on and I have it set fairly loud ( I can hear it from the house which is a good 100 yards or so away) The birds don't seem to be bothered by it at all,,in fact i actually think my egg production increased with it,lol But since I installed it I have not had a single predator attempt a raid. Hope this helps you out. A BC is NOT a viable solution though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 well in many cases there is just a heap of feathers on the ground (all near the coop) with a trail leading into our thickly wooded forest, but on one occasion and probably the most oppsetting was when the animal got to the families 'pet' hen, she had recently had chicks and decided to hide in the hay at night instead of in the coop, and i thought this very unsafe since for the past three morinings we have found our hay scatterd and lids off our feed cans and brushes and buckets tipped off shelves so at night I would take her and her chicks into the chicken house. but on friday we were leaving for kansas and didnt get back till late tonight so I placed the chicken (whos name is chicken little) into a cage and placed it in the chicken house and we also for the first time in a long time locked our other chickens in the pen surrounding the coop, but unfortunatly our ''animals'' babysitter didnt realized that she had to shut the door to the coop up so when we came home the wireing had been clawed through and the criiter had easy acces inside the coop. How the animal managed to get into the cage without opeing the door (which had three hooks keepin it sealed tight) with chicken Litte and drag her and her five chicks out is beyond me. (it also managed to grab two of our other Hens as well) so obviously we have a very smart criminal mind on our hands which leaves me to belive it is the doing of a racoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Originally posted by border_collie_crazy:I saw a show about a lady who kept Kuvaz for gaurding her poultry. I dont think a BC would be of any use to you, and would probably make the problem worse. Kuvasz that's the other breed I was thinking about. Good for guarding livestock- not sure about chickens- but worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 ok, thank you so much. If anyone else knows of other breeds please let me know cause i need a good family dog as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 No problem. Have you tried renting some breed books from your local library? Then when you find a breed that sounds good, maybe talk with a rescue- or breeder even- just to get a feel for the breed, it's personality, needs, and to see if it fits your needs/situatuion. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Here you go(Some kuvasz info): http://www.kuvasz.org/ http://www.kuvasz.org/descri.htm (their descrip/personality) Sounds like this one could be good. But they get BIG, and can be very dominant. There seems to be some good info here. But couldn't find anything about if good with chickens- sorry. If this sound good, you could call around or email people for more info though. Most love to help and see their dogs go to the right home rather than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Don't get a BC - it'll drive you nuts and neither of you will be happy - not for protecting poultry. I had a Great Pyr that was great for keeping the coyotes out of the pasture away from the sheep, but stunk when it came to the poultry in the yard. One summer, I lost at least one bird every day. I let them out at breakfast and shut them in at night - and a fox was still coming up and getting them during the day (we live in a woods with lots of cover). The Pyr was in the yard, but didn't seem to either notice or care about that. Otherwise, he was great. Are your birds running loose? If so, and if possible, you might try shutting them in at night (if that's when you have the most trouble losing them). It could be anything including a neighbor's dog, coyote, fox, owl, raccoon, maybe even a skunk or oppossum. You might try a pair or trio of geese. I have 2 demented geese that are very protective. One stays with my weaned lambs and even attacks me when I feed - we're working on a truse. The other stays with the flock more and really lets loose if anything at all disturbs him. Last year, I even lost one goose while they were protecting a bunch of young ducks (they adopted them and NO ONE messed with their babies). Cooped or not, you might try playing a radio at night near where they roost or leave an outside light on, if possible. My dogs have never been particularly useful at protecting the poultry directly - I'm sure having 4 dogs on the place helps scare off would-be preditors, but they don't directly guard them either - in fact, I've had several birds killed by my own dogs in the past. Also a word of warning about Pyrs - they go through a stage at 6-10 months of age or so in which they can't resist "playing" with fluttery young poultry - and it is basically fatal to the birds. They don't mean to, but it happens just the same, so you have to be careful and stop it before they get a bad habit of killing birds (I found tying a dead bird around my Pyrs neck for a day solved the problem, but I've had other dogs that this didn't work). Good luck, I know it's frustrating to keep losing birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Geese..what a wonderful idea. I hear they make excellent very serious watch birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 haha, I have a goose!! I hate that thing, he is the watchdog, he attacks everything even cars!! I did think about puttin him in there but my daughter will not let me, she is to afraid the racoon will harm him which i highly doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinKate Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 A BC to guard a flock of birds is the WORST idea yet. Let me explain why. A BC whose job it is to guard birds, will begin to obsess, keeping them tight together. How easy for the pickings. No chasing them down. OR, if they don't obsess, when the chickens get upset and begin to run and cluck, it may trigger the dog again to heard them and make them an easy target. Unfortunately, BCs tend to HELP predatory animals. Get them better, more secure housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Sounds like you've got a coon. I suddenly started loosing chickens a couple of months ago (lost 7 in total), but I had a weasel after mine (at first). I bought a live trap and caught a coon on the first try. It was going in after the dead chickens I had collected into feed sacks. I moved the trap to a different location and then caught the weasel (a long tailed weasel). I didn't set the trap the next night, but something had again been into the feed sacks so I tried again and caught another coon. I thought that was it, but about a week later I lost another chicken so I reset the trap. It took me about another week, but that time I ended up with a mink in it. The weasel and the mink tended to kill and stash the chickens in the wall of the coop (between the outer wall and the cardboard sheets that cover the insulation) The coons were actually not killing any chickens this time, just scavenging. In the past I had a coon living in the loft of the coop that was taking a chicken each night and leaving wings and feathers laying around sometimes, but it would usually take it's kill up into the loft. The live trap was a great investment. I took the animals I trapped for a drive along a road that is unpopulated and dropped them off near a pond in the middle of nowhere so they wouldn't become somebody else's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWQH Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Good morning. As one who lives on a large cattle and horse farm, I would definately say no to a BC put in with chickens. We have 1 who won't do anything to them, but the young male would be in his glory...all night while herding, and possibly killing them. The 1 who doesn't was beaten by the previous owner for doing the same, that's why she won't touch the chickens, and I do NOT condone beating an animal, especially one who would be doing what only came natural to them. You might Try a Bouvier, BUT there are 2 types of them. 1 that herds and 1 that guards. The guard variety is agressive. You don't want that!! Collin & Dianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Yes it turned out to be a family of raccoons, so far i have cought four and have taken them down the road to be released, so for now i think my chickens are safe, but i'm still going to look into a dog to gaured them. Thank you all so much for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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