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ABCA/ISDS registered "beardies"

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After I mentioned in a recent thread that a beardie (Turnbull's Blue) had been registered on merit by the ISDS in 1984, one of our members wrote me privately asking if I had any pictures of ISDS-registered beardies I could post. I didn't then, but I've since gotten some, and here they are.


All of these pix except the last one are of descendents of Turnbull's Blue who are registered with both the ISDS and the ABCA. They are all owned by Barbara Starkey of Galena, MD. As far as I know, they have no other beardie blood except for Blue. When I took the photos, Barbara told me that all of the dogs are very much out of coat for one reason or another, and that I should come back in a few months to get a better impression of how profuse their coats are.




The above bitch, called Ceri, is a great-great-granddaughter of Blue, and therefore 1/16 beardie. As you can see by comparing all these pictures, there is no direct correlation between how closely the dog is related to Blue and how much the dog looks like a beardie.




The above bitch, Nell, is a great-granddaughter of Blue, and therefore is 1/8 beardie.




The above dog, Grae, is a great-grandson of Blue, and therefore is 1/8 beardie. He competes in USBCHA Ranch class.






The above two photos show Ben, a dog who is a grandson of Blue, and therefore 1/4 beardie. He is retired from trialing now, but ran in Open class in the UK before he was imported to the US, and in the US afterwards. Note his prick ears, which obviously came from his border collie heritage.




By way of comparison, the above dog is a purebred working beardie who is registered with the Working Bearded Collie Society in Wales, and is not registered with the ISDS or the ABCA.


For some pictures of show Beardies, go to http://geocities.com/okbeardie/ .

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I honestly don't see much difference between the part beardies and the registered working beardie, except perhaps that the working beardie is a bit hairier on the face (around the eyes and top of head). I'm not the least bit surprised that the show beardies bear little resemblance to the working dogs.



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I kind of think of "beard" or "wire" as just another coat variety of working collies. Fly has a great-grandma whose coat type is listed on her pedigree as "beard." I don't know if the bitch's ancestors were also bearded as their coat types are not listed. If anyone is curious I can email you a pdf of Fly's pedigree. Fly is of mostly Welsh breeding.

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Melanie - Thanks for those interesting pictures.


I guess I was thinking, as I looked at them, that you could "shave" those dogs or digitally replace their wiry coats with a "Border Collie coat", and I wouldn't be able to tell them from a working Border Collie.


Your comment about an ISDS/ABCA registered dog labelled as having a "wiry coat" seems to me to sum up how the Bearded Collies look - like a Border Collie with a wiry coat.

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As far as I know (and I could easily be wrong), bearded originally referred to a dog with hair on its face (as seen in the pics above). Therefore, working dogs (that is, border collies or their working ancestors) with hairy faces were bearded, but still would have been considered working border collies or working sheepdogs or whatever they were called at the time and so would have the same range of working styles as the group of working sheepdogs as a whole--from lots of eye and lots of style all the way through to completely upright and loose eyed. I am not using the term border collie above simply because I don't have a timeline for what was called what when....


The bearded collie as it is known to the conformation breeders is considered an upright, loose-eyed worker, but I suppose it's a "chicken-egg" thing as to which came first (looks or upright style). And I have no idea what the foundation stock of the current KC breed is. I do know that any time I have searched for sites with actual working beardies, they all seem to look like the ones in the pics above and not like the KC version (but I doubt anyone is surprised by that). And perhaps if the dogs above were groomed to the nth degree and their coats were allowed to grow out (assuming that possible), they would look more like the KC version. I just don't know.


Just my thoughts, without any actual reference material to back me up.



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bearded originally referred to a dog with hair on its face (as seen in the pics above). Therefore, working dogs (that is, border collies or their working ancestors) with hairy faces were bearded, but still would have been considered working border collies or working sheepdogs
Right. I agree. That's my understanding as well.


And I know that KC beardies are upright, loose-eyed, & bark when "working" and I'm not even considering those in the equation.


The ISDS beardies really look like neat dogs. Is there something in registration regulations--don't even know it that is phrased correctly---that differentiates between the occasional bc pup born bearded and ISDS working bearded collies? I'll assume there is.


And if working bearded collies are a separate breed, then they are upright loose-eyed, more vocal in their work? And would they then be favored for a different type of work?


The occasional bearded bc would obviously still work like a bc and be registered as a border collie, only bearded.


Lots of questions. Sorry.



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I just got an email from the guy I ordered Fly's pedigree from. I'd asked him about the one Beardie bitch in Fly's pedigree and whether or not any of her ancestors were also bearded. He said that none of them are.


In the last 15 years, 50 dogs have been registered with ISDS as bearded, 17 of them from the same bitch (not the one in Fly's pedigree).


For more info I encourage anyone to contact Teun v/d Dool, whose ISDS Border Collie Database is here:




The amount and quality of work he's put into this can't be explained in a simple fashion -- you have to go look at it. He provides a 5 Euro pedigree service that returns a six-generation pedigree with all sorts of extra information like regional ancestry (Fly is 53% Welsh), coefficient of inbreeding (Fly's is 7.329), ancestor achievements and returns it in pdf format within 24 hours. An example is on the website and I can email Fly's pedigree to anyone who wants to take a look at it.


Not invested, just impressed.

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I just wanted to second what Melanie was saying about those pedigrees, they're wonderful. Teun is very helpful and will try to do them however is possible. For example, my Gael was bred here from 2 ISDS dogs and Teun did her pedigree from those since she wouldn't have an ISDS number herself.


The pedigrees are really informative.

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Outta the way, lady! I saw him first!


I actually went and visited my mother in VA last month specifically so I could watch OLN. She has cable, I don't.


I have managed to just barely miss the Tour many, many times while in France. Everywhere I go, they were either just there or are going to be there a day after I leave. I have seen barricades set up in northern France, in the Dordogne, and in Paris. In 2002 I left Paris the day before the finale on the Champs Elysees. A couple of years ago in Heidelberg I spent almost the entire time in the hotel glued to Eurosport (it doesn't take long to see everything there is to see in Heidelberg and I was burnt out from traveling at that point).


My crush on Lance Armstrong has been nurtured for a while now. My friends find his appearance to be too ascetic, but I don't care, the guy is a total stud.


I'll settle for another tour cyclist, however. One thing I have noticed is that being reasonably attractive appears to be a job requirement for tour cyclists (as long as you don't mind noodle arms and jersey tans).



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Ok, it's a little convoluted but here goes -- Nell and June (Gael's dam) are the ones related by line. Pip and Tara are Nell's grandparents and are June's great prandparents (one on top side and one on bottom, not mated to each other). Beau is one of Nell's other grandparents and he was a littermate to Piaf, who was June's grandfather. So, 3 out of 4 of the "lines" of their pedigrees (Nell and Gael's mother June that is) are pretty close. Of course to get Gael you have to throw in the Bomber as her sire.

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OK girls, so what is your opinion on guys who have cleaner shaven legs than you? It kind of bothered Renee, but I think she liked how the cycling clothes fit.


OLN coverage was better than years past, but still not as good as it could be. I liked reading cyclingnews.com and velonews.com live coverage then going to watch the stage on OLN then reading the riders diaries after the stage. Then you really get a good feel for what's going on in the peloton. The studs of this year's TdF were George H. and Floyd L.; it's too bad Floyd didn't have enough left after he shattered the field in the last mtn stage to win the stage.


Sorry for the departure from BC topics; you just hit on my other passion; I wish I still had the time to train and race.




P.S. Melanie, if you want cyclists with more developed arms look at track racers (they're the sprinters in the cycling world).


Colby Pearce and Marty Nothstein

Mike Beers

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The only kind of leg hair that bothers me is too much. I don't have any problem with men shaving their legs. I've always sort of felt that men should shave their pits.


Eurosport coverage is so much better than OLN. Do you get that on satellite? They show everything -- if the stage takes seven hours to ride, they show seven hours. The thing I thought was funniest the last time I got to watch Eurosport was that they kept track specifically of where Lance was at all times. They had a graphic that identified the leaders, the peloton, and if he wasn't in the peloton, the "groupe Armstrong."


The biggest disappointment for me this year is that the Kaiser just didn't really show up for the dance. I like Jan Ullrich, think he's a real champion and while I didn't want him to beat Lance would have liked to see a real race between them. The fact that he finished off the podium made me very sad. (And did I mention he's totally hot?)


I was reading cyclingnews.com and Daily Peloton for my updates. The Washington Post ran a few good features by Sally Jenkins, too. For Andrea, Daily Peloton has a "Le Tour Delicieux" column in which "Crazy Jane" waxes poetic about bronzed, shaven legs.


P.S. -- I don't mind noodle arms. How can I be picky about noodle arms? I have noodle arms.

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