How we use our dogs

[gcv-border]

beachdogz  ---  I LOVE your response. Bravo.

[urge to herd]

beachdogz THANK YOU! I was struggling to find the words to say what you wrote out so clearly. I so much appreciate you taking the time to do this. May I copy and post your post for my own use? It's just so right on.

Ruth & Gibbs

ps ~ of the 5 dogs I've owned one was REALLY a beach dog. She loved water, (except for getting a bath, that was torture!). Take her to a stream or the beach or a river and she was in heaven. Got her a kiddy wading pool and had to speak sternly to get her out of it. Samantha was one in a million.

[D'Elle]

20 hours ago, Nuance said:

Do you or anyone you know train their dogs to stand at every street(without crossing)

Yep. Me. My border collies learned to do this early on and were reliable to do this every single time. It was 100% because in their whole lives they never failed to do this while we were walking off leash in town. I know many people who train without leashes and who train without treats, and most of the people I know do not lure their dogs. 

Beachdogz is right, None of this is even slightly new, and your ways of training are not by any means unique.

Scouring the internet will not find me, or the people I know, and is severely limited information. I personally don't base any opinion only on what I do or do not find online.

20 hours ago, Nuance said:

Your dog isn't going to fair well in my dogs environment but put my dog in yours, it is gonna be a walk in the park .(

That is some huge assumption you are making there, considering that you don't know me, or my dogs, or anything about how we live or what my dogs know or how they handle the world or in fact one single thing that would inform you to make that statement.

I sincerely doubt that it is true,  But I am not going to say I know it isn't true because I don't know you or your dogs, and to me making such statements about someone else and/or their dogs without having full information behind that statement is pretty arrogant.

You know what your dogs do. You have no idea whatever about what my dogs do, and have no basis for such statements. It is a sign of lack of knowledge about people and dogs and the many, many different training ways and environments that they are in that you would make such a statement at all.

 

 

[D'Elle]

1 hour ago, gcv-border said:

beachdogz  ---  I LOVE your response. Bravo.

Me too. thank you, Beachdogz.

A little actual logic thrown into the conversation! How refreshing.

[beachdogz]

2 hours ago, urge to herd said:

beachdogz THANK YOU! I was struggling to find the words to say what you wrote out so clearly. I so much appreciate you taking the time to do this. May I copy and post your post for my own use? It's just so right on.

Ruth & Gibbs

ps ~ of the 5 dogs I've owned one was REALLY a beach dog. She loved water, (except for getting a bath, that was torture!). Take her to a stream or the beach or a river and she was in heaven. Got her a kiddy wading pool and had to speak sternly to get her out of it. Samantha was one in a million.

Heck, yeah!  Copy away!  We are all here to share and learn. 

LOL  Closest my dogs ever see a beach is the backyard pool!  But my Walter Mitty brain says I'm always at the beach!!  Well, I guess THAT dates me

[D'Elle]

13 minutes ago, beachdogz said:

LOL  Closest my dogs ever see a beach is the backyard pool!  But my Walter Mitty brain says I'm always at the beach!!  Well, I guess THAT dates me

If so, it dates me as well because I know who Walter Mitty is! LOL.  

And thanks for your comments. As urge to herd says, very well put.

[beachdogz]

As promised, here is my response to "Startle Training."

Nuance said, "I don't know another person who startle trains their dogs."  Seriously???? Hunters do it all the time.  They shoot a gun while the puppy is eating.  They counter-condition the dog to the noise.  AND they are able to weed-out the puppy that is sound sensitive and will be gun-shy -- and therefore not a good prospect as a hunting dog.  I do believe that all animals - and humans - are hard-wired before they are born.  Some dogs are going to be sound-sensitive no matter how hard you try to condition them to it.

The reason many people would be reluctant to do the "startle training" is probably that with a puppy, you never really know when they are in a "fear period" until it crops up.  And while the experts will give you ages in months that mark fear periods, there really is no particular date that they miraculously appear.  But counter-conditioning (and startle training would fall under that category) is done all the time.

I have had four thunder-phobic dogs in my lifetime.  The first one was a German Shepherd that was that way for the day we got her as a puppy.  Two were a BC mix and a BC, who were both second-hand dogs and both were running free in their early life.  So I can assume that being out on their own during thunder storms could possibly have caused it (or they could have just been sound-sensitive from birth.)  The fourth was also a second-hand BC that I got at 1 1/2 years of age.  Thunder, gun-shots, fireworks -- nothing bothered her.  She would eat, train, and sleep during it all.  She was totally NOT sound sensitive --- UNTIL SHE WAS!  One day she, just out of nowhere, exhibited fear and that was the end.  No amount of counter-conditioning erased it.  I could ease it...but it still was there.  Now, the most logical explanation for this is that being around those dogs led her to develop it.  Maybe. But she was around those dogs for YEARS (like 7-8 years) before she developed it.     Now fast-forward to 3 years ago and I get two new puppies.  And believe me, it is on my mind that I do not want another thunder-phobic dog.  Using your example of startle training, I would have to create thunder when they are puppies and divert that sound into a cue for something wonderful (whether that cue be "play fighting" or "tug" or "treats" or whatever.)  But not being Mother Nature, I cannot create thunder.  And storm recordings do not work (I've tried that many times over the years.)  So, first storm and first boom, I yell "Boom boom! Cookie" and they come running to get fed.  Every clap of thunder.  They are Border Collies...doesn't take long for that lesson to be learned.  Now when we get a storm and it thunders, they high-tail it over for a treat.

So last week there was an airshow close by - and the jets would come out our way to practice.  And yep, they totally have a thunder sound.  So of course, guess who is at my husband's desk looking for a cookie.  He looks at me and says, "Seriously?? That is NOT thunder!"  And I say, "Sure it is -- that's why they call them the Thunderbirds!"

Now if I were the OP, I'd probably be saying, "Look at how well my dogs are startle trained."  But I will never say that.  I hold my breath each time because I know that no matter how much training I have done, somewhere down the line this could all change.

So there is my take on startle training.  Sorry...but not new.  Do I dislike it or disagree with it?  Nope.  Would I use it just to startle a puppy and rebound him with reward?  Probably not.  But I will tuck it away in my toolbox, because every dog and every situation is different, and you never know when you might need to try something. 

Nuance, I apologize for such long posts.  If you have learned one thing here, it is that dog trainers LOVE to talk your ear off about the thing they love the most!!!

[urge to herd]

37 minutes ago, beachdogz said:

But my Walter Mitty brain says I'm always at the beach!!  Well, I guess THAT dates me

Dates me, too! James Thurber was a wonderful writer, loved his stuff.

[D'Elle]

1 hour ago, beachdogz said:

So, first storm and first boom, I yell "Boom boom! Cookie" and they come running to get fed.  Every clap of thunder.  They are Border Collies...doesn't take long for that lesson to be learned.  Now when we get a storm and it thunders, they high-tail it over for a treat.

Since I live in a place that has major thunderstorms during monsoon season, this is precisely what I have been planning to do with my next puppy. Thunderstorm means fun, games, and good treats.

thanks for your comments on startle training. All make good sense, and of course gun dogs are trained that way all of the time. 

I know a breeder who plays gunshots and thunder and other sounds for the puppies very quietly, 24 hours a day from birth, slowly increasing the sound as they get older until it is loud. She says it works. Her dogs are dobermans. I don't know if it actually works, since there's really no comparison between a recording and the thunder that rocks the house, especially the rip-roaring kind we sometimes get here. It feels entirely different too - the air is different in a thunderstorm  and the dogs feel the ozone changes far more than we do. My one dog who dislikes thunder knows when it is coming 10 to 15 minutes before I hear the first little rumble. He started out as thunder- phobic but now knows just to come to me and hang out next to me and is not nearly so scared as he was at first.

[beachdogz]

7 minutes ago, D'Elle said:

I know a breeder who plays gunshots and thunder and other sounds for the puppies very quietly, 24 hours a day from birth, slowly increasing the sound as they get older until it is loud. She says it works. Her dogs are dobermans. I don't know if it actually works, since there's really no comparison between a recording and the thunder that rocks the house, especially the rip-roaring kind we sometimes get here. It feels entirely different too - the air is different in a thunderstorm  and the dogs feel the ozone changes far more than we do.

I'm not doubting her;  I just never had any luck playing tapes of storms.  I agree with you that there is more than just noise with storms and that the pressure systems play a great role in how dogs react. 

I tried videos of children playing when I wanted to get my puppies child-proofed during the pandemic, but I also had no luck with that.  They did not associate the video sounds with actual children.  However, when my grandchildren call on the Amazon Show, Parker gets excited - and so he does equate that with the kids.  I find that interesting. 

[Nuance]

The way we use our dogs! 

 I honestly couldn't formulate a reply to each of you. I don't have that kind of typing ability.

Hunters and farmers train very similar Style. Agreed 

Am i special ,do i think what i do with the dog is special. Not a chance.

I'm not here to boast or brag about the way i do anything or criticize others for the way they do life. Everyone could do what i do(but they don't)

D'Elle suggested i don't startle train my dog because others don't( my point was other do startle train) I made no slight towards anyone and did thank her.

If you give me more time i can try and answer more specific questions or points in the upcoming week , I was overwhelmed by the amount responses .and it will take time for me to digest it.(after i finish reading it again)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nuance]

8 hours ago, beachdogz said:

As promised, here is my response to "Startle Training."

Nuance said, "I don't know another person who startle trains their dogs."  Seriously???? Hunters do it all the time.  They shoot a gun while the puppy is eating.  They counter-condition the dog to the noise.  AND they are able to weed-out the puppy that is sound sensitive and will be gun-shy -- and therefore not a good prospect as a hunting dog.  I do believe that all animals - and humans - are hard-wired before they are born.  Some dogs are going to be sound-sensitive no matter how hard you try to condition them to it.

  Using your example of startle training, I would have to create thunder when they are puppies and divert that sound into a cue for something wonderful (whether that cue be "play fighting" or "tug" or "treats" or whatever.)  But not being Mother Nature, I cannot create thunder.  And storm recordings do not work (I've tried that many times over the years.)  So, first storm and first boom, I yell "Boom boom! Cookie" and they come running to get fed.  Every clap of thunder. 

Beachdogz,

 Thank you for contributing. 

My dog is extremely sound sensitive.

 My example was i stomp my heel to find how the dog re acts to being startled, to find a suitable direction to focus their reactions in the future.(mine jumps and turns to me when startled)

Being startled isn't a prolonged event, like thunder, it happens and is over with. Being startled makes you jump, .like backfires or people coming up behind you.

 if my dogs has a fear i re assure them its "all good" i name the event(thunder) and do whatever they love to do . This is conditioning training . Condition training for being startled is. stomp heal ,be startled have fun.

You want to precondition your dog towards thunder.?  Take them close to a gun range and do fun stuff with them. Rinse and repeat.

 

[D'Elle]

14 hours ago, beachdogz said:

I'm not doubting her;  I just never had any luck playing tapes of storms.  I agree with you that there is more than just noise with storms and that the pressure systems play a great role in how dogs react. 

I tried videos of children playing when I wanted to get my puppies child-proofed during the pandemic, but I also had no luck with that.  They did not associate the video sounds with actual children.  However, when my grandchildren call on the Amazon Show, Parker gets excited - and so he does equate that with the kids.  I find that interesting. 

Yeah, I don't doubt her either, but on the other hand, these are puppies she breeds and sells, so I don't know how much she actually keeps track of whether or not they end up being thunder-sensitive.  And even if they don't, what is to prove it is due to the recording? We don't know why some are sensitive and some are not. So it is all unknown. I think the only sensible thing is to work on conditioning the dog with the real sound, starting when the dog is very young when possible.

One of my dogs, who is very thunder sensitive, responds with howling any time I play a video that has dogs or wolves howling in it, barks back at a barking recording, but doesn't respond at all if I play a video of a thunderstorm. In his case, it's the combination of the difference in air pressure, the difference in the light, and the thunder that spooks him, not just the sound - in other words, the whole thing. And, as we noted before, no recording can sound the same as actual thunder in any case. And interestingly, he doesn't howl back if I play a video of coyotes howling, nor does he howl back at coyotes outside the house, which we hear every day.

 

 

[D'Elle]

8 hours ago, Nuance said:

You want to precondition your dog towards thunder.?  Take them close to a gun range and do fun stuff with them. Rinse and repeat.

  I would very strongly question this as an approach to desensitizing a dog to thunder, although it could work for getting a dog used to gunshots if you started out far from the range and slowly over time moved closer.

Of course, thunder and a gunshot are completely different kinds of sounds and also have a very different feeling to them. I sure can tell the difference between the two and dogs can as well, probably far better than we can. The two sounds are not even close to being alike, except that both are, or can be, loud bangs.  Guns (unless used with a suppresser) are always loud bangs. Sometimes thunder doesn't even bang at all, only rolls and grumbles, and dogs who are sensitive to thunder will react to the grumbling, not only to the bangs. 

Also, thunder doesn't sound alone the way a gunshot does: one bang, then another bang, or a series of bangs but all sounding alike or extremely similar.  Even at a gun range where different kinds of firearms are being used, the bangs won't resemble thunder. Thunder rolls and grumbles and changes and no two cracks of thunder sound exactly alike. Static electricity often appears with thunder,  there is a huge difference in air pressure, lighting becomes different, and the air feels different in a thunder storm, none of which happens if a gun is fired.

For these reasons,  a dog can be sensitive to one without being sensitive to the other. I have known such dogs, including a hunting dog who was afraid of thunder but went hunting with his owner and had no problem with gunshots (in fact, thought it was fun because then he got to go get the bird, which he loved to do), and more than one dog who was OK with thunder but terrified of gunshots. Had some experience with this, as I have been in thunderstorm areas and around hunting, both for many years and have observed my own dogs and those of other people. 

[beachdogz]

14 hours ago, Nuance said:

The way we use our dogs! 

 I honestly couldn't formulate a reply to each of you. I don't have that kind of typing ability.

Hunters and farmers train very similar Style. Agreed 

Am i special ,do i think what i do with the dog is special. Not a chance.

I'm not here to boast or brag about the way i do anything or criticize others for the way they do life. Everyone could do what i do(but they don't)

D'Elle suggested i don't startle train my dog because others don't( my point was other do startle train) I made no slight towards anyone and did thank her.

If you give me more time i can try and answer more specific questions or points in the upcoming week , I was overwhelmed by the amount responses .and it will take time for me to digest it.(after i finish reading it again)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"D'Elle suggested i don't startle train my dog because others don't( my point was other do startle train)"

             Nope.  That wasn't your point because you said, "I don't know another person who startle trains their dogs." 

"I made no slight towards anyone and did thank her."

             I believe the sentence that ruffled feathers was when you said to her:  "Your dog isn't going to fair well in my dogs environment but put my dog in yours, it is gonna be a walk in the park ."  You may not have meant it to sound like this, but it comes across as boastful and condescending.   

And just another thought: D'Elle's environment includes walking in Arizona where shade is limited, and your dog prefers walking in shade.  D'Elle's environment also includes Canine Freestyle, and your dog might not be comfortable in the middle of a ring with spectators and other dogs surrounding and watching your performance.  I spent years in various venues of showing dogs, and the atmosphere surrounding the dogs competing is very tense.  So it just might not be the walk in the park you think it would be.  Just sayin' 

[beachdogz]

7 hours ago, D'Elle said:

  I would very strongly question this as an approach to desensitizing a dog to thunder, although it could work for getting a dog used to gunshots if you started out far from the range and slowly over time moved closer.

Of course, thunder and a gunshot are completely different kinds of sounds and also have a very different feeling to them. I sure can tell the difference between the two and dogs can as well, probably far better than we can. The two sounds are not even close to being alike, except that both are, or can be, loud bangs.  Guns (unless used with a suppresser) are always loud bangs. Sometimes thunder doesn't even bang at all, only rolls and grumbles, and dogs who are sensitive to thunder will react to the grumbling, not only to the bangs. 

Also, thunder doesn't sound alone the way a gunshot does: one bang, then another bang, or a series of bangs but all sounding alike or extremely similar.  Even at a gun range where different kinds of firearms are being used, the bangs won't resemble thunder. Thunder rolls and grumbles and changes and no two cracks of thunder sound exactly alike. Static electricity often appears with thunder,  there is a huge difference in air pressure, lighting becomes different, and the air feels different in a thunder storm, none of which happens if a gun is fired.

For these reasons,  a dog can be sensitive to one without being sensitive to the other. I have known such dogs, including a hunting dog who was afraid of thunder but went hunting with his owner and had no problem with gunshots (in fact, thought it was fun because then he got to go get the bird, which he loved to do), and more than one dog who was OK with thunder but terrified of gunshots. Had some experience with this, as I have been in thunderstorm areas and around hunting, both for many years and have observed my own dogs and those of other people. 

Totally agree.  This would be a useful scenario for gunshot (maybe fireworks) only - not thunder.  They are two different things.  My BC who developed a fear of thunder never did develop a fear of gunshot, which as a trainer I found interesting.  We have gun shot going off randomly around where I live (people here do skeet shooting and target practice) and those never bothered her.  Only the thunder. 

[Nuance]

3 hours ago, beachdogz said:

"

             Nope.  That wasn't your point because you said, "I don't know another person who startle trains their dogs." 

 

 

             I believe the sentence that ruffled feathers was when you said to her:  "Your dog isn't going to fair well in my dogs environment but put my dog in yours, it is gonna be a walk in the park ."  You may not have meant it to sound like this, but it comes across as boastful and condescending.   

 

Beachdogz,

 When i say i don't know anyone who startle trains,  i am saying i don't personally know anyone who does this besides me. Not that no person does this besides myself.

As to ruffled feathers. I think this topic has gone wildly off topic and has been focused on me and what i have said to D'Elle,instead of  saying how they use their dog and the foundations they create to ensure the best possible growth for the dogs.

I am very proud of my dog and the work i put into her!

Insight into border Collies is the main reason i am hear, not to hear what one should or shouldn't do with them. I cannot do what D"ELLE does, i dont have the skill set to rehabilitate a troubled dogs into the life i lead.(i need to start with a pup). My point , that we each raise our dogs to our own standard and needs, opinions about how or what should be done is individualistic to our own situations.

Example...  years after year  people repeat the mantra about never being fully in control with an off leash dog and what could possibly happen to the dog? 

What is the point? On leash or off leash a lot of bad stuff happens. Its like saying bad shit is gonna happen so why even get a dog. 

 

*because of my short writing ability i do understand that it can be taken more negatively or seem more short. If the only expression i have is a negative one, i don't feel a need to share it..* for the future short posts

 

 

[D'Elle]

19 hours ago, beachdogz said:

"D'Elle suggested i don't startle train my dog because others don't( my point was other do startle train)"

             Nope.  That wasn't your point because you said, "I don't know another person who startle trains their dogs." 

"I made no slight towards anyone and did thank her."

             I believe the sentence that ruffled feathers was when you said to her:  "Your dog isn't going to fair well in my dogs environment but put my dog in yours, it is gonna be a walk in the park ."  You may not have meant it to sound like this, but it comes across as boastful and condescending.   

And just another thought: D'Elle's environment includes walking in Arizona where shade is limited, and your dog prefers walking in shade.  D'Elle's environment also includes Canine Freestyle, and your dog might not be comfortable in the middle of a ring with spectators and other dogs surrounding and watching your performance.  I spent years in various venues of showing dogs, and the atmosphere surrounding the dogs competing is very tense.  So it just might not be the walk in the park you think it would be.  Just sayin' 

thank you for this response, beachdogz.

 

[D'Elle]

16 hours ago, Nuance said:

Beachdogz,

 When i say i don't know anyone who startle trains,  i am saying i don't personally know anyone who does this besides me. Not that no person does this besides myself.

As to ruffled feathers. I think this topic has gone wildly off topic and has been focused on me and what i have said to D'Elle,instead of  saying how they use their dog and the foundations they create to ensure the best possible growth for the dogs.

I am very proud of my dog and the work i put into her!

Insight into border Collies is the main reason i am hear, not to hear what one should or shouldn't do with them. I cannot do what D"ELLE does, i dont have the skill set to rehabilitate a troubled dogs into the life i lead.(i need to start with a pup). My point , that we each raise our dogs to our own standard and needs, opinions about how or what should be done is individualistic to our own situations.

Example...  years after year  people repeat the mantra about never being fully in control with an off leash dog and what could possibly happen to the dog? 

What is the point? On leash or off leash a lot of bad stuff happens. Its like saying bad shit is gonna happen so why even get a dog. 

 

*because of my short writing ability i do understand that it can be taken more negatively or seem more short. If the only expression i have is a negative one, i don't feel a need to share it..* for the future short posts

 

 

 

Nuance: I think it's going to be perceived as a slight towards another person (and/or their dog) by pretty much anyone if you say that their dog couldn't do well in your environment, but your dog would think it was a walk in the park to behave appropriately in theirs. Especially when you don't know the person, the dog, the training, or the environment.  You are saying your dog is (fill in the blank) ...better....better trained....smarter...more adaptable...etc. Or, that you are a better trainer or have trained more things. In other words, "my dog can do everything your dog can do and much more!" This will be viewed as boastful and probably seen as insulting. Just letting you know.

As you have now learned in this thread, many people train as you do, train the same things you do, and many people's dogs can do what yours does. There are many ways of having a dog perfectly trained for the environment they are in. I think your dog would not be likely to do well in my environment because your dog is not trained to be in my environment, but this is not something I would ever even think to say to another person because I don't see it as something great or to brag about or better than another, simply an obvious difference that doesn't even need to be mentioned. I am only saying it here because of what you said.

In the same way, I wouldn't say that my clothing would work for your climate but yours wouldn't work for mine. I wouldn't even think of it, let alone think mine was better and comment on it. It's the same thing.....an obvious difference in environments and...so what? Neither is better, they are only different, and one never knows whether what works in one will work in another without learning a lot about it and probably trying it to see. 

 So back to dogs:  We each train our dogs (and buy our clothes, and cars, and so on) for what we need, want, and enjoy, and it's not a matter of better or worse, more training or less; it's not a thing to brag about or compare with other people or imply that yours is more adaptable, because it is only a difference in lifestyles. If my dog didn't do well in your environment it would only be because he has not been trained by you for what you specifically want in your environment, not because he doesn't have what you call "life skills". And if your dog were here and did not do well in my environment I would know that it was only for the same reason.  We are both -- no doubt appropriately -- proud of our dogs. This is good. But I don't feel the need to compare others' dogs abilities negatively to mine. 

[Nuance]

On 6/20/2022 at 7:23 AM, D'Elle said:

In my opinion, and how i train dogs, training should always be fun, and not just "(for the most part)". If I a not making it fun for the dog, then I shouldn't be doing it. No matter what I am training the dog to do or not to do, it can be made fun and rewarding for the dog to learn.

As for trauma or stress in younger or older dogs - from my experience it depends entirely on the dog. Stress and trauma should always be avoided whenever possible. There is no point in stressing out a dog (or a person or horse or anyone else who is needing to learn something) in order for them to learn. It is never necessary. If it causes that in the dog, that is not the way to go about it.  I would never cause any of my animals stress or trauma on purpose, at any age.  I also would never think it was necessary to startle a dog.

I don't think that stress is how we learn. My dogs have always learned the best in a stress-free environment.  My training of dogs is always low stress. At the first sign of stress in the dog I stop and move on to something else.  In my experience, most dogs, especially sensitive dogs, won't learn anything at all if they are under stress, except that training is stressful and therefore to be avoided. And I don't learn well at all under stress either, in fact I may not learn anything. My whole way of teaching is about encouragement.  Deliberately causing stress  or startle seems like a terrible idea to me. Especially in a young dog, because you don't know what could turn out to cause trauma.

Also in my experience I have found that if a puppy or other young animal gets traumatized by something (no matter how small an incident it seems to us) it can cause a life-long phobia or avoidance behavior that is very difficult if not impossible to change.  On the other hand, if I have an older animal who has always been treated with kindness and respect, and who has had very little stress in their life, they don't seem as affected by that kind of thing. For instance, I don't yell at my animals or stomp my feet or bang things and I certainly never do those things AT them. As a result, when my dogs are adults they can roll with what happens much more easily. If someone nearby does bang something, stomp their feet, or yell, they assume it has nothing to do with them. They may, sensibly, get out of the way but they do not tend to be frightened, because they know I won't let anything harm them.

I also know that a dog never has an avoidance reaction to something "for no particular reason", even though it can seem that way to us.  If there weren't a reason perceivable to the dog, the behavior wouldn't be there. Maybe that particular dog "said" something to your dog in dog language that makes your dog avoid them. 

D"Elle,

 Re read your own post.

I train my dogs for any environment (stress level). You limit your dogs training as you state above.

 " I also would never think it was necessary to startle a dog."  was your opinion to me, even after me saying why it is done. The dogs SAFETY.

If your opinions get responses you don't like, i suggest you limit your opinions.

There is nothing i have said or written that was a slight. Your dogs cannot transition to high stress . I quoted you so you could re read your own words.

I stated a fact when i compared our dogs abilities...those are your words(the quote)..you do not teach your dogs to function in high stress.

 

I think all people are equal, the only thing that separates us as individuals is our perspective.

I hope to learn from as many peoples perspectives as i can here.

 

 

 

[D'Elle]

6 hours ago, Nuance said:

If your opinions get responses you don't like, i suggest you limit your opinions.

Seriously?!? I could say the same back at ya. You obviously want to argue and to offend. I do not. 

I have been on this forum for many years. You have not. Most adults know that it is impolite and unwise to join a forum and immediately start criticizing and insulting long-term members of the forum, bragging, and putting themselves above others. Unfortunately you don't seem to know that, and you haven't figured it out yet. If you want to be a member of this forum that people will actually respond to, you might think about this.

One more time, and for the last time: You are not stating a single fact when you make statements about my dogs. Or about anyone else's dogs here on this forum. 

You don't know any facts.  You have NO idea what my dogs can do, or what the dogs of anyone else on this forum can do.

You are making your own highly biased opinions based on nothing but a few sentences we have typed into this forum, and you are interpreting those sentences as you want to, seeing only what you want to see. You have not been on these boards long enough to know anything about any of the long time members here, or their dogs and you come bumbling in here like an overgrown child making wide pronouncements that you think put you in a good light and others in a poor one. You are wrong about this, on all levels.

  I don't know what you think is your purpose is in doing this, but suggest that you find something that is actually constructive to do instead.