E collar training aid

[Don Billard]

How do border collies respond to gentle and reasonable e collar training? Some e collars have tone and vibration options as well as very low level static. I'm thinking that since they are a sensitive breed tone or vibration might be all that would be needed.

[D'Elle]

You don't need an e-collar at all and it is not recommended that you use one. I don't know why you would even want to use one.

There is no reason to use an e-collar unless it is a life-or-death need and all other and far better training methods have failed, no matter what breed the dog is. To use one on a border collie would be inhumane. 

Train your dog with patience and positive reinforcement and forget the e-collar.

 

[GentleLake]

^^ What she said.

Border collies are just too sensitive to risk possible repercussions from this.

[Journey]

Glad someone used the caveat "life or death" then yes, I do highly recommend an E collar, especially if it's a "car chase" behavior which can be *very* difficult to train away from and absolutely a life/death situation.

[Don Billard]

12 hours ago, Journey said:

Glad someone used the caveat "life or death" then yes, I do highly recommend an E collar, especially if it's a "car chase" behavior which can be *very* difficult to train away from and absolutely a life/death situation.

Nice to get a reasonable reply to this. My girl hunts with me and there's bears, wolves, moose, wolverines, porcupines, lynx, and skunks around here as well as thin ice on lakes. Recall NEEDS to work. From a distance. I purchased a Sportdog brand collar ($ 250 ) plus 2 books ( by Larry Krohn, and The Monks of New Skete in collaboration with Marc Goldberg ). E collars don't train dogs, people do. The E collar should be used as a very long leash. Too many idiots purchase an E collar, slap it on the dog, and hammer on the buttons. I will train myself as well as train my dog for about 6 weeks before I use the  E collar. On the lowest setting possible. Barely percepticle by the dog. That's all that's needed. Testing it on myself first. My whole training program might take me 4 months to complete, step by step.

[Journey]

10 hours ago, Don Billard said:

I will train myself as well as train my dog for about 6 weeks before I use the  E collar. On the lowest setting possible. Barely perceptible by the dog. That's all that's needed. Testing it on myself first. My whole training program might take me 4 months to complete, step by step.

 

You are absolutely correct in the manner about which you are going. I wish you luck. It's nice to see a thought out plan..if I can't understand something I cannot explain it to my dog either. Good luck to you!

[gcv-border]

11 hours ago, Don Billard said:

 My girl hunts with me and there's bears, wolves, moose, wolverines, porcupines, lynx, and skunks around here as well as thin ice on lakes. Recall NEEDS to work. From a distance. I purchased a Sportdog brand collar ($ 250 ) plus 2 books ( by Larry Krohn, and The Monks of New Skete in collaboration with Marc Goldberg ). E collars don't train dogs, people do. The E collar should be used as a very long leash. Too many idiots purchase an E collar, slap it on the dog, and hammer on the buttons. I will train myself as well as train my dog for about 6 weeks before I use the  E collar. On the lowest setting possible. Barely percepticle by the dog. That's all that's needed. Testing it on myself first. My whole training program might take me 4 months to complete, step by step.

I have 3 border collies that I can recall off any type of game - even when in chase mode. (I don't hunt, but often walk the fields and woods.) I started recall work the week I got them as puppies. I did not use an e-collar. It would probably take longer to teach an instantaneous type of recall when starting with an older dog.

[D'Elle]

11 hours ago, Don Billard said:

Nice to get a reasonable reply to this. My girl hunts with me and there's bears, wolves, moose, wolverines, porcupines, lynx, and skunks around here as well as thin ice on lakes. Recall NEEDS to work. From a distance. I purchased a Sportdog brand collar ($ 250 ) plus 2 books ( by Larry Krohn, and The Monks of New Skete in collaboration with Marc Goldberg ). E collars don't train dogs, people do. The E collar should be used as a very long leash. Too many idiots purchase an E collar, slap it on the dog, and hammer on the buttons. I will train myself as well as train my dog for about 6 weeks before I use the  E collar. On the lowest setting possible. Barely percepticle by the dog. That's all that's needed. Testing it on myself first. My whole training program might take me 4 months to complete, step by step.

Well, to me that constitutes life-or-death.  I am glad to read a post from someone who understands how important it is to be fully trained oneself in the use of the collar, and who will go about it correctly.

I would still want to try to put a solid recall on the dog without the e-collar first. Starting, as gvc border said, when the dog is very young. But if you have an adult dog to train, and you go about it the way you are saying, then it will probably be fine.  The fact that the dog gets to go out hunting with you into nature and move around and have all that fun seems to me like a lot of freedom that many dogs don't have, and if a little light e-collar training is necessary for that to be safe for the dog, then it's appropriate. Best of luck to you. 

[Don Billard]

11 hours ago, D'Elle said:

Well, to me that constitutes life-or-death.  I am glad to read a post from someone who understands how important it is to be fully trained oneself in the use of the collar, and who will go about it correctly.

I would still want to try to put a solid recall on the dog without the e-collar first. Starting, as gvc border said, when the dog is very young. But if you have an adult dog to train, and you go about it the way you are saying, then it will probably be fine.  The fact that the dog gets to go out hunting with you into nature and move around and have all that fun seems to me like a lot of freedom that many dogs don't have, and if a little light e-collar training is necessary for that to be safe for the dog, then it's appropriate. Best of luck to you. 

Yes my 6 weeks of pretraining involves establishing a solid recall. She is 2 years old by the way. More of a bush collie then a border collie. She's purebred from working mostly cattle dog lines. She has a greatgrandfather in the National Cattledog Association Hall of Fame (2018) , JR Red. But you would think she was bred to hunt.

[Michael Parkey]

In Merle's Door, Ted Kerasote describes a similar use of an e-collar.  He and Merle lived in rural Montana on the edge of BLM open range.land.  Merle liked to chase cattle.  If seen by a rancher, this could result in death by rifle shot!  Though not a border collie, Merle was a sensitive and intelligent dog.  If my memory is correct, it only took one use of the e-collar to stop the cattle chasing.