Border collie crating?

[Dogssssssss]

I'm thinking about getting a border collie but I have to work an academic calendar, is it ok if i were to keep the dog in a large crate while I'm gone? I would give her three walks a day ( 1 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon and 1 in the evening).

[Blue_Skye]

no, don't get a dog if this is what you think is appropriate behavior. Dogs are just like us. Now put yourself in a crate all day and try and imagine what that's like. I live with the a border collie, my fourth. These dogs are like people, it's a perversion to crate them this way. Owning a dog is an enormous responsibility. I wouldn't get one unless I worked from home or could put it in daycare. And border collies would be the worst possible breed to crate the way you describe

[GentleLake]

Welcome to the Boards. It's a good place to get a lot of useful information.

I disagree that border collies can't be crated or that they're any worse with crating than any other dog. But if your only plan for exercising and interaction with your dog is 3 walks a day, unless those walks are long, off leash walks then a border collie is probably not the dog for you.

All dogs crave human interaction, but Border collies have been bred for centuries to work in close partnership with humans and they really need a relationship with their person to thrive. Many, many people who work full time jobs successfully live with border collies, but they're the kind of people who when they come home from work are really engaged with their dogs beyond just taking the dog for a leashed walk. They make them a meaningful part of their daily lives. Bored, unfulfilled border collies tend to the the ones that are destructive and/or develop nuisance and even quite neurotic behaviors.

Back to the crate, of course you'd want to use a crate for a puppy or new adult dog until the dog is trained and has proven her or himself reliable for increasingly longer lengths of time alone. But planning to do this for the dog's entire life? No, I wouldn't recommend as the most compassionate way to treat just about any dog.

Please take some time to get to know some border collies up close and personally, and talk to their people about what living with them is like.

 

[beachdogz]

Hi

You do not say whether you are considering a border collie puppy or an older puppy/dog.  There are many things to consider here, and their age is the first. 

I always raise my puppies in a crate.  I currently have two puppies, and there are two crates downstairs, and two crates that they sleep in upstairs in the bedroom.  For me, this is key to housebreaking them, and containing them when we are out so that they are not destructive.  Two litter mates - same parents - different personalities.  One is calm and quiet in the crate.  The other is calm and quiet UNTIL he has had enough, and then he is vocal.  However, both tolerate the crate well.  That being said, not all puppies take to a crate well.

I have had older rescue dogs in the past that I have successfully used a crate with when bringing them home.  However, especially when getting an older dog, you do not know how they will adapt to crating.  My son got a 6+ month old puppy (not a BC)  from a shelter.  She could not tolerate a crate.  Tried slowly introducing it.  Tried keeping it in the living room with an open door.  Tried building up time in it.  That dog hated the crate and would have hurt herself trying to get out of it if he had kept it up.  When you get an older dog, there is no guarantee that they will adapt well to the crate. 

If I am reading your post correctly, it seems you can go home at lunchtime for walks.  So likely the dog would only be in the crate for maybe 4 hours, and then a break.  Then 4 hours and another break??  This is not a bad situation if all goes well.  I think you must ask yourself what alternatives you may have if the crating isn't working.  Dog walker?  Safe area for dog if not crated?  I also think we are lucky now that we have the option of cameras to monitor our dogs when we are not at home. 

And perhaps the most important thing to ask yourself is what plan do you have for raising an active dog.  I have yet to have a crazy, off-the-wall border collie as some people say they have.  However, BCs are active, and smart, and need both physical and mental activities.  Do you plan to attend classes (puppy?  obedience?  agility?)  Highly recommended.  There is a good start for support and well as keeping the dog occupied.

Re-read Gentle Lake's answer - it is excellent in telling you what to expect.  Then re-read it again. 

I just noticed that the original post was from February 20.  So I don't know why there is such a long time between posts.  When seeing that, I was going to just skip replying, but then I thought I should reply because sometimes the most valuable information I find on these boards is when I do a search for a particular problem.  Perhaps it is too late for the original poster, but maybe it will help someone else with the same question in the future. 

[D'Elle]

3 hours ago, Blue_Skye said:

no, don't get a dog if this is what you think is appropriate behavior. Dogs are just like us. Now put yourself in a crate all day and try and imagine what that's like. I live with the a border collie, my fourth. These dogs are like people, it's a perversion to crate them this way. Owning a dog is an enormous responsibility. I wouldn't get one unless I worked from home or could put it in daycare. And border collies would be the worst possible breed to crate the way you describe

I am going to disagree with most of this. It's simply not true that a person who works full time shouldn't have a dog. Millions pf people do, and there are millions of people who have happy dogs in that situation.  It is not perversion to crate a border collie, any more than with any other dog.

The important thing is first, making sure that you are not crating a dog who doesn't need to be crated. In other words, train the dog to be calm and well behaved in the house while you are gone so that you don't have to crate the dog at all when you are not at home. And second, if you are going to have a high-energy dog while working full time I agree with Gentle Lake that three on-leash walks a day will not be enough for the dog. If this is what you want to provide, or is all you are able to provide, don't get a high-energy dog who needs a lot of exercise. Get a small dog,, and one that is content to be mostly a couch-potato.

Having said that, I also will say that I got a two year old high-drive border collie while I was working full time and living in one room with no yard in Los Angeles. It was fine, but the only reason it was is that I truly and genuinely wanted to do absolutely *nothing* in my time off work except do stuff with my dog. I didn't go out for a drink or dinner with co-workers. I didn't go to movies in the evenings, or hang out with people. I walked the dog for about an hour and a half every morning and again every evening, no matter weather or how I was feeling. I took him places where I could throw a frisbee for him almost every day (not easy to find in a big city). And every single weekend we went on day-long off leash hikes in the mountains or went camping in the desert. 

In other words, I dedicated my life to the dog. Now, a person can do this, but you won't do it consistently and for years ongoing unless it is, and remains, what you really want to do, not just what you think you should do. I only took that dog on because I knew myself, and knew that I wouldn't ever fail the dog. And I didn't.

So think about this. If you have never had a border collie before, I definitely recommend you get a different breed. There are smaller dogs with less need for exercise who will do fine in your situation with three walks a day. Best of luck to you.

[GentleLake]

13 minutes ago, beachdogz said:

I just noticed that the original post was from February 20.

I noticed that too. And I see that the OP hasn't signed in again since then. I only hope the she or he is checking from time to time as a guest reader and will see the replies.

[urge to herd]

9 hours ago, Blue_Skye said:

These dogs are like people, it's a perversion to crate them this way. Owning a dog is an enormous responsibility. I wouldn't get one unless I worked from home or could put it in daycare. And border collies would be the worst possible breed to crate the way you describe

Going to disagree with 'these dogs are like people, it's a perversion to crate them this way'. These dogs are dogs, very intelligent dogs who love to learn and to do stuff with their humans, but dogs. I've not had a border collie (I've got my 5th right now) who didn't love to eat poop. Or roll in it. Never saw that in a human.

I wouldn't have a dog of any type who 'had' to go to daycare every day in order to be sane. When I work longer hours than a dog can reasonably be expected to hold their bladder I hire a dog walker. I've not had a dog so young it needed to be potty trained, I've been very grateful that the rescues I got them from did the potty training for me. If I had to start with potty training, a crate or inside enclosure would be part of it. And extra dog walker visits if I was away from home for more than a couple hours. 

To state 'I wouldn't get one unless I could work from home or put it in daycare.' is to cut out an enormous number of people who work and can't afford day care. Or their dog doesn't do well at day care. So, reasonable accommodations can be made for such people and their dogs. An enclosure with drinking water available, a comfortable place to lay down, and maybe room to stretch a bit is  reasonable. Possibly add a dog walker to the mix. JMO.

Ruth & Gibbs

 

[SS Cressa]

I think it depends on how you read the question. Would the dog only be allowed out of their kennel 3x a day? (Kennel 21 hours, walked 3 hours)

If yes... and the kennel being an indoor kennel I don’t think that would be healthy for any dog regardless of breed.
If yes... and the kennel is an outside kennel with room to move around personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that set up but I know a lot of working dogs are kennel outside and only get worked x amount during a day so it might work?

If they meant the dog would only be kennel while the owner is at work. I don’t think there would be any issues. You can still do mental games, puzzle toys, etc... I do think dogs might need to pee more then 3x in a 24 hour period or at least get the option to.