Another hopeful

[TxMom]

Hi folks! I'm yet another hopeful future Border Collie owner coming to pick your brains. I've been reading here for a little while, but thought I'd go ahead and post something so y'all know who I am when I eventually come up with some specific questions that aren't so easily findable in the archives. Or, if my introduction inspires any particular advice, I'm all ears.

 

We're looking at adopting a dog (young adult, from a rescue -- looks like All Border Collie Rescue is the place to go in central Texas) around January, so we're still trying to learn as much as we can and make sure we turn up any red flags that are out there saying this isn't a good fit for us. The dog is for me -- my husband likes dogs but wouldn't go to the trouble to own one for himself. He does understand the responsibility (that's WHY he wouldn't own one for himself) and is willing for us to take it on, but by and large I'll be the one doing things with and for the dog. We have three kids who will be 3, 5 and 7 this May. They'd like a dog, and they have pretty good animal manners. We have two indoor cats and they and the kids get along well -- the kids pet them nicely when the cats are inclined to seek attention, and leave them alone when they aren't. We talk about how to recognize when an animal does or doesn't like what you're doing, and letting animals have their personal space, and so on. I figure I'll also include the kids to some level in some obedience training -- enough that they can effectively communicate no, leave it, drop it, sit, and that sort of thing. I've also started explaining to them that a lot of their toys look a lot like really fun dog toys, and we're practicing keeping things picked up so we can minimize that particular issue.

 

We homeschool, so the kids and I are home during the week aside from an hour or two of outside lessons or errand-running a few days a week. The most we're regularly gone from home is Sundays -- about three hours in the mornings and two more in the evenings, less during the summers and on holidays. Our weekday morning routine is that we have breakfast, do a little bit of school, go walk a mile or so (hoping to increase it to at least two miles), then come back and finish school with backyard play breaks to keep us all fresh and sane (believe it or not, 6-year-old boys don't sit still and think about spelling or math for more than 10 or 15 minutes at a stretch). On nice days, we do a lot of our reading-based work outside. My thinking is that a dog would be in and out with us during the school day. It wouldn't be a lot of really intense exercise, but there also wouldn't be any really long periods of inactivity/boredom. We do have a quiet rest time for a couple of hours in the afternoon (usually from 2 to 4) and I'd like the dog to learn to settle in the house for most of that time -- most of the year it's too hot to be outside then anyway. But we'd probably also do a bit of training while the kids are all quiet and out of the way, and I'd be up for trying a puzzle toy or stuffing a kong or something to give the dog something to do.

 

When we get a dog I'd like to start with a basic obedience class and eventually move on to something like agility -- not necessarily on a competitive level, but for the exercise and the fun of working together. I figure we'd also do regular short training sessions throughout the day, whether refreshing on obedience, doing silly pet tricks, games, or working with a few jumps in the backyard. Just things to keep the mind busy. I could take more vigorous walks or bike rides in the evenings without the kids at least a few times a week.

 

We're specifically looking at a Border Collie for a few reasons. Mostly, I had one growing up, and he was a dog I really connected with. We got him as a puppy when I was 8 and I did a lot of his obedience training homework and eventually got started in agility with him for a few years before my family moved (the course was across the street from us, but once we moved I didn't have a way to get there). Officially, he was the family dog, but as far as he was concerned he was my dog. He liked everyone else just fine, but I was the one he worked with. And for that matter, we had other dogs and I liked them just fine, but Oreo (original, I know) was the one I worked with. I know a lot of people who have nice dogs that hang around in the house or the backyard and sit in their laps or go for walks, but I loved having a dog I worked with. (Just to be clear, I'm unfortunately not talking about work with livestock, but training together and challenging ourselves -- having focused tasks and goals.) In addition to that, the average size is good for us, we feel confident a good rescue can help us find a dog who will be good with the kids, and while I know some Border Collies can have trouble with cats I also know it isn't universal (especially with training).

 

I think that more or less covers things. Again, just wanted to say hi and introduce myself because y'all have been very helpful so far and I hope to continue learning from you!

[kingfisher7151]

Hello, and welcome!

 

You sound like you have a great home for a border collie. I have no doubt that a rescue can find you a perfect dog! I hope you come back and post pictures when you find The One!

[GentleLake]

Hi, and another welcome to the boards.

 

In general it sounds like you've thought this through and seem to have good expectations and plans.

 

One thing I'd like to mention if you're not already aware of it is that many border collies don't do well with young children. It's a very common reason for them to end up in rescues. Too much activity, too much noise, too much unpredictability in the ways young children behave for these sometimes overly sensitive and motion oriented dogs.

 

Many will do fine with kids, though, so don't give up hope. Discuss this realistically with the rescue and be prepared for it to possibly take a little longer to find the right match. You might want to ask if you could foster to adopt or at least to initially take the dog for a trial period to make sure it's a good fit. Many rescues will consider one or both of these options, and it can be a good way to approach it. Even though a good rescue will absolutely take a dog back if things don't work out (and most require it), it's a somewhat different mind set for you and the kids if you approach it this way and won't be quite the heartbreak as it would be if you bring the dog home thinking about it as "your" dog from day one.

 

Best wishes finding the perfect dog for your family. Exciting times ahead!

[TxMom]

GentleLake, thank you for the suggestions. We plan to be completely up front with the rescue and ask them to take as long as they need to find a dog they think will thrive in our home (it's the main reason we want to go with a rescue rather than a shelter or even buying a puppy). The dog-and-kids factor is one I don't have any real experience with, and we definitely want to handle it right. I'll ask about a trial period, because I do think that would make it easier if a particular dog didn't work out.

 

Are there specific things we could be teaching the kids ahead of time that might help avoid problems? I know a lot of it will just depend on the dog, and some of it is unavoidable kids-being-kids stuff. They are active kids, for sure. But they're also pretty good about the boundaries we set down, and I'm hoping that will help. For example, the rule from day one has been that if the cats walk away from you, you don't follow. I have to remind the youngest sometimes, but the older two are good about it. And if the cats are in the master bedroom, they're completely off limits. The not-following rule will definitely translate to a dog, and I've been telling the kids that the dog will have a crate where it goes when it wants some quiet time and they may not follow it there, try to pet it in there, etc.

 

Incidentally, I keep reading that the crate should go in an area of the house where the family is, but with young kids would it make more sense to put the crate in a public area of the house that isn't exactly where everyone usually is? We have two living areas. The main one has all the toys and the school/craft/Lego table and it's where the kids build with their blocks and make forts out of the couch cushions and all the usual crazy stuff. The other is smaller and has the TV and computers and bookshelves and board games, and it's not off limits to the kids but it's not Grand Central Station. We don't keep toys in there and we discourage them being taken in, so it's not where the kids tend to be unless they're doing something quiet like reading or watching a movie. It's where my husband and I most often hang out in the evenings, and it's open to the dining room and kitchen. It's quieter, but not isolated. I've been thinking it makes more sense to go with the second room, and that maybe the advice to have the crate in the room where everyone is isn't really accounting for young kids?

 

I really want the dog to get along with the kids and be happy living with them. Again, ultimately it'll be my dog so it doesn't have to adore the kids, but we don't want any issues. When we got the cats, we took the kids with us to the shelter and waited to see which cats approached us and stayed near us even when the kids (2.5 years and 6 months at the time) got a little loud and crazy. The cats we ended up with don't LOVE the kids, but they aren't uncomfortable living with them or being around them, and they accept attention when they want it. On the other hand, the cats also don't deal well with just any kids. We had houseguests a while ago and found out later that their children so stressed our cats that they used our closet instead of their litter box. We won't be in a hurry for those guests to stay again, but if they do we'll move the litter box to a location where the cats can get to it without the chance of encountering the guests. I'm not sure if it's just that the cats are used to our kids specifically, or our kids are particularly decent, or the visiting children were particularly unpleasant.

[Gloria Atwater]

I agree with your thought of having a crate for him in a quiet part of the house. You might consider having more than one crate, such as one for him to stay in at night (your room or wherever) and another in a daytime place. I think a place for him to go and get away from noise and bustle would be important, a "safe area" where he can go snooze and the kids know to leave him alone.

~ Gloria

[GentleLake]

Your rules with the kids with animals are great, but that doesn't mean there won't be lots of activity that could make some border collies (and, tbh, some other dogs as well) anxious or uncomfortable. Like you said, kids will be kids, even if their activity isn't directed towards the dog.

 

I agree with Gloria. If feasible, 2 crates might be the best option. Border collies can be notorious for wanting to be with their people, even if it's not always the most comfortable place for them to be otherwise. Some might choose to go into the other room for some alone time, but more likely, at least in my experience, she or he may well prefer a crate in the room wherever you are. Except late in the evening, my dogs will tend to follow me from room to room, just because they want to be near me. So if the kids understand that a dog in a crate isn't to be disturbed, a crate in whatever room you're in at the time may well be her or his haven of choice.

[alligande]

You sound like a good home, as you are looking at a rescue I think the key will be finding a dog that is comfortable with your kids. Border collies as has been mentioned can be very sensitive, I have a friend with 3 and 5 year old daughters, they are good kids who were raised with their border collie, but I really think the dog would prefer not to live with them, when she comes to my house she embarrassingly makes it obvious she does not want to go home, we all think she loves the peace and quiet, it is nothing the kids do, accept be normal boisterous kids. At home she does put herself in time out and when they have kid friends over she hides in the parents bedroom. There are though border collies that have no problems dealing with the hurly burly of a young family and getting a young adult through rescue will make sure that you all get a good match.

[amc]

Your thoughtfulness and pre-planning will serve you well. A good rescue will surely find your perfect dog, as Border Collies do come with a wide range of temperaments. Your own experience proves they can be the absolute best kids' dog ever. I wish you much success with your new family member, when you find him/her, and I congratulate you on creating what sounds like a wonderful space for your children to grow and learn in.

 

Amy

[Maralynn]

One thing to remember is that Border Collies as a breed are motion sensitive and excitement feeds excitement.

 

Excited dogs knock kids over.

 

This is a matter of fact in my family - if you don't want the dog crazy, don't be crazy! If you want to run and yell outside, make sure the dog is inside. Now, since you're going through rescue, they probably won't suggest a dog that apt to get super bouncy. But it is something good to remember and instill in kids.

 

I think you're doing a great job in preparation and will be a great home for the right dog!

[TxMom]

Thanks again for the thoughts. We'll see if we can pull off two crates, and/or experiment with where the dog seems most comfortable. We will definitely be very strict about the crate being a safe place for the dog with no one allowed to disturb him/her. I'm also hoping it will help that there are a couple hours of every day when the kids are expected to be engaged in quiet, individual activities. The house is really very peaceful during that time... it's my sanity-saver. They also go to bed at 7:30 (with some reading time before lights out) and stay quiet until breakfast time at about 8 a.m., so there's another couple of good chunks of peace and quiet in the morning and evening.

 

I have started telling the older two kids that when they get crazy the dog will get crazy. My eventual goal is to teach them that when that happens they need to stop, calmy say "no," and tell the dog to sit or lie down -- something incompatible with being crazy, as a sort of reset. I know that will be a process, and I'll need to work with the kids and the dog together so they know how to give commands appropriately and the dog recognizes them as people who give commands. And of course I intend to be supervising anyway, but we do like to try to give the kids the tools to solve problems whenever possible.

 

Sounds like our biggest take-away is that we just need to find the right individual dog for our circumstances. I know that won't be just any dog, but it'll be worth waiting for.

[chene]

I agree with the others, it sounds like you are well prepared to take this on. My only suggestions would be to get the kids some practice. Take them to pet stores, agility trials, the dog park, etc. Agility trials are the best because there are often lots of border collies, but the more practice they get around dogs the better they'll be. Also Maralynn touched on this, but it's a good idea to make sure they understand that depending on the dog and its level of training, it's not going to be as gentle as a cat. It may jump up on the kids them/knock them over, mouth or nip them, lick all over their face, pull their clothing, bark at them, run straight at them and turn away at the last moment, paw them, etc. Obviously these are behaviors you'll want to work with the dog with to make sure it's acting appropriate, but border collies can definitely be startling to young kids. You don't want them to end up scared of the dog.

[D'Elle]

Just want to say welcome to the forum, and that I am impressed with the preparation you are doing, especially with your kids. Gosh I wish more people would do what you are doing ahead of time!! There would be so many fewer dogs in shelters and rescues if people would be as thoughtful and careful about it as you are being.

[GentleLake]

Sounds like our biggest take-away is that we just need to find the right individual dog for our circumstances. I know that won't be just any dog, but it'll be worth waiting for.

 

Yep. You've got it!

[TxMom]

Chene, we do the pet store thing, but we're skipping on dog parks (I'm probably overreacting, but in the last month or so an unvaccinated Border Collie tested positive for rabies after interacting with several other dogs and children at a local off-leash park).

 

The kids and I would love to watch an agility trial (the kids watched some Crufts videos with me and were enthralled). I did agility lessons with Oreo when I was a kid, but we never actually competed. My parents let me do the lessons because I paid for them myself and they didn't have to drive me there, but they weren't willing to take me to a trial. I'm completely clueless as to how those actually run, or if there's a specific type to look for, or anything else we'd need to know before just showing up (I'd especially like to be sure we have good manners). It does look like there are both USDAA and NADAC events within reasonable driving distances. I'd prefer to skip the AKC stuff, as I'm not fond of what they do with working breeds. Any suggestions for how we'd go about visiting?

[alligande]

If you can find a NADAC trial locally just show up, and chat to people. NADAC trials from my experience are really low key and friendly, I love USDAA as a competitor but the trials are pretty intense and the competitors are much more focused on competing and won't be as approachable. NADAC is also family friendly and always encourages kids to get involved.

[gcv-border]

I'm completely clueless as to how those actually run, or if there's a specific type to look for, or anything else we'd need to know before just showing up (I'd especially like to be sure we have good manners). It does look like there are both USDAA and NADAC events within reasonable driving distances.

Before I started competing in agility, I visited a few trials. My agility friend told me it was polite to stay about 20 feet back from the ring and don't do anything distracting. For example, kids shouldn't be playing tag/running around where a competing dog could see them. I would also not stand on the congested side of the ring (i.e. where the entrance and exit is). Having said all that, I was just at a NADAC trial (outside venue so there was a lot of room surrounding the ring) where all those suggestions did happen, and no one got upset about it.

 

Depending on how long you think you will stay, feel free to bring some collapsible chairs and some drinks and food. As long as someone isn't about to enter the ring or has just finished a run, I would think they would be happy to answer questions.

 

It was at an agility trial where I found the private agility trainer that I started with.

[CptJack]

Agreed, re: NADAC trials. They're the most popular game in my neck of the woods (Which is incidentally close to GVC's neck of the woods) and they are really, really chill. Also, if there was just a trial I am missing out on something somewhere within driving distance and I REALLY need to get on the ball with finding more of the things. I might manage to title Kylie someday if I managed that.

 

But anyway, yeah, just show up. Chairs or a blanket, bring sunscreen and food/drinks if you're staying for the whole thing (they can make for a LONG day), feel free to chat people up. The only advice I have is to follow basic dog manner rules. Ie: ask before petting dogs, etc.

[CptJack]

http://www.activedogsportstraining.com/files/Your%20first%20trial.pdf

 

I found this. It might be useful for you, even if you're there without a dog.

[TxMom]

Thanks for the tips and the link! I feel better going into a known situation, especially with the kids to consider.

[chene]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but while we're on the topic, how do you go about volunteering for an agility trial? Do you just show up and sign up there, or do you have to do it before?

[CptJack]

Yeah, basically. If you're not a member of the host club I'd email in advance (because I have NO idea how that works) and I'm sure it varies by club, but for our group you just go and sign up for tasks/times that are listed at the secretary tent.

[CptJack]

Wow, that reply sucked. Let me try this again:

For our group lots of trial happenings that are in the immediate area are shared via email list, but the groups WE are hosting with the parent club are posted to the website. Those people who are competing, ready to start competing, etc, are told via that email list that if we will volunteer at the trial there will be a series of free practices in the month/6 weeks running up to the trial.

The volunteer opportunities/mention of it are also mentioned on the premium on the website.

 

There is no super big in advance sign up for specific jobs. I am pretty sure that if someone who was not a member wanted to help it would be welcome and we'd find somewhere to put them to work. Just check in at the trial/the secretary's tent and see what's needed.

[Cass C]

In my area you just show up and ask how you can help. They usually have an easy task for newbies like bar setting or leash runner.

[chene]

Okay, awesome. I will do that. Thanks guys. I'll let this thread go back to its actual purpose now.

[TxMom]

Okay, awesome. I will do that. Thanks guys. I'll let this thread go back to its actual purpose now.

Hey, I thought it was a great question! I might or might not be able to volunteer somehow with the kids along just yet, but they'll keep getting older.