Dragoon 45 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 My R/W male is finally weaving, he has been doing agility training for about 8 months. My problem now is too figure out which type of competitions to enter him in. For a novice trainer and novice dog which would be better to start with? AKC, USDAA, or something else. I'm not a big fan of anything AKC, and don't like the idea of the PAL listing to be able to compete. I don't know much about USDAA. I am in NE Oklahoma and from what I understand there are agility competitions just about every weekend in the 5 state area. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Things to consider: -cost per run (It adds up quick) -equipment (different groups use different types of equipment...may or may not be an issue depending on you and your dog) -frequency of trials (if you want titles, you have to compete fairly often; for the most part, points do not transfer between organizations) -location (how far are you willing to drive? does your dog do best indoors? outdoors? is the place well maintained?) -popularity/wait times (the more dogs competing, the longer you have to wait until your turn) -entry requirements (do you have to enter in advance or are day of trial entries accepted?) -games (do you want to participate in different events/games?) My choices where I live are AKC, NADAC, and ASCA. AKC is the most expensive, generally requires registration in advance, and trials fill up quickly. AKC trials tend to have a lot of wait time. AKC courses tend to be tighter. AKC offers standard (all equipment used on numbered course), Jumpers with weaves (jumps, tunnels, and weave poles on numbered course), and FAST (all equipment assigned point value, you make up your own course earning as many points as you can). ASCA courses are similar to AKC. They are cheaper and you can generally enter day of trial. NADAC is cheaper than AKC. I can show up the day of trial and enter (providing its not full...hasn't happened yet) and there's generally less wait time, especially with the non-jumping games. NADAC courses are a bit more spread out, focusing more on speed and distance handling. NADAC doesn't have the teeter, tire, chute, or table, but does add hoops (and maybe barrels now...haven't seen those yet, but read about it). NADAC has some fun games: touch n'go, hoopers, tunnelers, jumpers, weavers, chance, and also barrel racing and gaters (these last two are newer). Tunnelers and TNG are Meg's favorite...she doesn't really like weave poles or a lot of jumps. My advice is to go watch a few trials. See what you think of the courses and the overall feel of the place. You'll generally be seeing the same people at trials. AKC shows around here are more competitive and a bit 'tense' feeling. NADAC is more relaxed and friendly with people helping each other out. I haven't been to an ASCA trial yet. Once you choose which group you want to compete in, you'll probably want to stick with it as your points may not be transferable and it can get expensive trying to earn titles in multiple organizations. I prefer NADAC but we also do some AKC because that's what most of our classmates do (and I plan on doing Rally too so the PAL registration has a duel use for us...be prepared for junk mail if you register with AKC though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekah Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 ^ Great post. I've only competed in AAC but I found it was frustrating to begin in as a novice. I hear CPE is very novice-friendly, if it's active in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think when you are first starting out you can do some sampling ... Once you have found a venue that you enjoy then for financial reasons it's best to focus... I have friend who competes in NADAC, USDAA, AKC, and now UKI and truly don't want to know what her annual agility bill is! Every trial for me is over an hour plus drive so I did not take the advice of checking one out, just went, I think you will find people friendly and willing to help. I started with NADAC, it was a really friendly environment but I don't like the courses and some of the rules are just plain silly, I still go to local trials just because of the people and the relatively close distance to home, it is a very supportive environment when starting. I have done one ASCA trial, great people, nice courses but I did not stick with it as there is only one trial locally and I don't have an Aussie, buts it's a great venue for getting your feet wet. I love USDAA it's what I thought agility should be, BUT I think I might have been overwhelmed if it was the first trial, I am the type that chats to anyone and find everyone very friendly and nice, and the courses aren't bad at novice but the atmosphere is way more intense, in my area it's the land of border collies, if you have someone to go with then why not! I have never done CPE as there is nothing close, but my agility friends that do think it's also a great environment to start in. UKI is a relatively new venue that I have tried yet, but friends that have say the courses are fun and they have really good novice classes I have never done AKC and have a long list of reasons why... there are to many options for me to go that route, despite peer pressure from my AKC agility friends who think I am doing myself a disservice by not competing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you have CPE in your area, I highly recommend it. Very, very beginner friendly, but it is also getting to the point where there is also plenty of challenge in the upper level games once you get to that point. You could choose to start in Level 1 - no weaves or teeter - to get some experience (you don't stay there for long, as you only need one Q per game and 2 Standard Q's to finish), or you could jump right to Level 2, which has weaves and teeter, but is still relatively simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 CPE is very beginner friendly. I just started my baby dog at level 2. I will caution you that the rules are very lax...you can still que with 10 faults, so one can have a rude awakening in more competative venues where one needs a clean run to que. Also, I've found the courses to be very tight for a fast, long strided dog. I made the mistake of playing snooker with my youngster, which I don't recommend. I think that it is very demotivating to be whisted off the course before finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 All good posts above. ^^^ Just as a point of interest (I know you are not interested in AKC) -- AKC also has a game called T2B (Time to Beat). In my area, trials will often offer T2B in addition to FAST. Usually FAST in one day of the weekend, and T2B is the other day. Since these games are scheduled first thing (again, in my area), many competitors will enter them as a 'warm-up' to the Standard and JWW classes later. In my experience, the competitors are just as friendly in one venue as another. You may want to go to your first trial (or 2 or 3) with friends so they can help you understand the routine. In both AKC and NADAC (which I do), there is a lot of self-help stuff that can be very confusing the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 CPE is very beginner friendly. I just started my baby dog at level 2. I will caution you that the rules are very lax...you can still que with 10 faults, so one can have a rude awakening in more competative venues where one needs a clean run to que. Also, I've found the courses to be very tight for a fast, long strided dog. Just to be clear - that is at Level 2. As you go up through the levels, the number and types of faults you can have reduces, and if you get to Level C, all runs must be clean. For instance, in Level 2, weaves are not faulted as long as you get them done. In Level 3, if there are six weaves, they are faulted, but if there are 12, they are not. By Level 4, weaves would always be faulted. That is one thing I love about CPE. It gets progressively more difficult as you gain experience, so it is do-able for a new team, but as you become better, the challenge level increases accordingly. In addition, in the point games, the number of points you need increases as you go through the levels and I didn't really start to feel the difficulty of that until we got into Level 4. There are also some faults that you can make that you will never qualify with. You can never qualify with a missed contact or teeter fly off in Standard, Wildcard, or Colors, for instance. You can never qualify with a single dropped bar in Colors. You will get whistled off for taking something out of progression in Snooker. Challenge level also varies by the judge. I have trialed under some judges who have made everything a cake walk. I have also trialed under some judges who have thrown us some real doozies. So, if you go in thinking is going to be really simple, just realize that isn't always the case. No, it isn't USDAA, but it isn't the equivalent of one big speed circle, either. I actually think the balance of do-ability and challenge in CPE is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've only done USDAA and AKC, and between those two venues, at least in this area, I find the USDAA crowd more laid back and friendly. And there are no weaves in Jumpers, so that's sometimes a nice way to ease into the trial environment for a brand new novice. Mostly, I think it's what you make of it. Don't be afraid to approach people and ask questions (but not when they're waiting to enter the ring, or just come out). And volunteer to help if they need ring crew or a leash runner. I believe people will be welcoming and open to helping a newbie, no matter what venue you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 If there is a small trial near you that is only one ring, those can be easier to start in so you aren't having to follow two rings and get stressed about conflicts. While I've never ran into a situation where you don't get your run bc of conflicts, it can get stressful, especially for a newbie handler. And I would lean toward nadac, uki, cpe bc of training in ring and slightly more laid back environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Interesting --- for me, from the perspective of timing, AKC is more laid-back than than NADAC. In NADAC, at the end of the walk-through period, the first dog is due on the line. AKC allows 5 minutes between the end of the walk-through and first dog on line. From the perspective of # of dogs, the NADAC trial may have fewer dogs on site because each dog may be entered in as many as 4 or 5 or 6 classes per day -- so the trial may feel less crowded. Usually, the most that AKC offers is 3 different classes (i.e. 3 opportunities for one dog to run per day.) But then that can (but not always) lead to long periods of time between classes (boring) if you are only running one dog. I like to fill the space with volunteering (but not forgetting that my dog would also like to get out and walk too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Interesting --- for me, from the perspective of timing, AKC is more laid-back than than NADAC. In NADAC, at the end of the walk-through period, the first dog is due on the line. AKC allows 5 minutes between the end of the walk-through and first dog on line. . It could be a regional thing but here in the NE my friends that do multiple venues all comment on the atmosphere at AKC trials, and that they go to NADAC trials to chill. My interpration is a lack of peer pressure, when you have the offspring of famous dogs, litter mates and of course their breeders present who all want those titles on the dogs it creates a different atmosphere, in the other venues up you really are doing it for your self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 It could be a regional thing but here in the NE my friends that do multiple venues all comment on the atmosphere at AKC trials, and that they go to NADAC trials to chill. My interpration is a lack of peer pressure, when you have the offspring of famous dogs, litter mates and of course their breeders present who all want those titles on the dogs it creates a different atmosphere, in the other venues up you really are doing it for your self. I can see that happening, but we are sort of out of the way here and whereas we may have some offspring of famous dogs (we aren't that backward ), if the pressure from that and litter mates and breeders is occurring, I am completely oblivious to it. Thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon 45 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thanks everyone for the information and recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwb3 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I run my dogs in CPE and love it for all the reasons described above. I would also like to try USDAA because I hear the courses are more fast flowing, sounds perfect for my 2 y/o speed demon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 USDAA courses are not that fast flowing certainly compared to NADAC, I enjoy them as it is easier for me to handle my speed demon on technical courses when he is not able to get up ahead of steam in NADAC he get frustrated with me because I can't run fast enough and I really don't train distance. The only class that is really fast flowing is steeplechase which is a tournament class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelleybean Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Which has the most trials in your area? If you are interested in titles, it's cheaper to stick with one venue. I chose AKC just because there are more trials in my area than USDAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Borders Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 USDAA is fun, lots of classes per day, but in our area there are SO many people that compete in USDAA that trials are frequently 10-12 hours per day. Courses are medium difficulty. UKI is even more fun: many trials allow day of entries, trials are frequently only 5-8 hours long, bitches in season can compete (not relevant to you :-), you can declare a "for exhibition only" run at the line and do training in the ring with a toy, and the courses are often incredibly challenging. They will test you and your dog, and will provide many learning opportunities. I won't do AKC (on principle), and have no experience with any other venue. But going to a trial in each venue held in your area might be illuminative. EDIT: Although beginners/novice UKI courses are no more difficult than starters/advanced USDAA courses, pretty flowy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogrsqr Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 I would suggest going to some trials and watch as well as converse with the exhibitors. Each of us has our own idea of what agility should be and what is fun. Some organizations tend more towards tight and technical, others toward flow, speed and distance and some are in between. Some of your decision will be based on what's offered in your area unless you're willing to spend the time and money to travel. I'd also check out the different organizations websites. You can find out info like what height your dog will have to jump and if the organization has different groupings if you want to jump your dog lower than the standard jump height. Some also have sample course maps to give you an idea of the "flavor" of their courses and you can see the difference in the levels and what "games" there are in addition to standard/regular agility. Gina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon 45 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Again thanks to everyone for their replies. There are a couple of trainers here in my area trying to get some CPE events organized and if successful I would not have to travel very far. My biggest concern is whatever venue I enter him in the first time, he has a chance to be successful. I don't care if he wins, but I don't want him to be the laughing stock of the trial. If I am laughed at, no big deal, I screw up all the time. I just don't want him laughed at. From what my trainers tell me, Zipp will probably be jumping at 20", which he rarely drops bars at that height. Oh and he is a speed demon and kamikaze wrapped up in one red and white package. The biggest challenge at his first trial will be if the knucklehead Zipp or the Ready to Work Zipp shows up. It should be very interesting to see when it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 As long as you maintain a positive attitude you will find people are really supportive, my first trial Brody left the ring, tried to pee on the judges feet, smooched a ring worker, and yes people laughed at him because he looked so dam cute while doing it, he had a big smile on his face and his tail was wagging, the people I met that day because they came up to talk to me because of my silly dog, (and the British accent calling Brody, Brody, BRODY) have been my agility friends for the last few years. I have been at loads of trials where novice dogs (and some not so novice) do all sorts of silly things in the ring, and yes people will laugh but it is not mean spirited, most have been down that road, it just hard not to laugh when a dog is being silly! Tell everyone it's your first trial, ask questions about what to do and you will find that people want to help and show you the ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 What alligande says. ^^^^ Don't worry about people laughing or what your novice dog will do. IMHO, what I get a kick out of is to watch a dog that is happy and loving running - in whatever direction you (or he) may choose. Agility is supposed to be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I agree with the last 2 posts. We've all been there and no matter how high up the ladder you get your dog will still have the capacity to make you look a fool. A dog that never does anything wrong is a dog that is boring to run and watch. First requirement for agility - a thick skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I can't imagine anyone laughing at your dog. Sure, we've all giggled when a dog gets the zoomies or does something silly. But it's because that dog is having a grand time...and many of us have 'been there'. Just go and have a good time. I think you'll enjoy CPE. I have several friends that trial in that venue, and they say it has a great vibe. Let people know it's your first time and I'm sure everyone will be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 ....We've all been there and no matter how high up the ladder you get ....Just a funny (at least IMHO) -- I was watching the livestream of the recent AKC National Agility Champs. All of the dogs running are at a very high level in this country. On one course, the route had the dog jumping towards the fence (~ 2 feet high) that divides one ring from another. The dog then had to make a fairly hard right to get the next jump. One handler pushed her dog a little too hard over the first jump so the dog thought that he had to jump the dividing fence, then he calmly jumped back into the ring and proceeded on with the course. What's a couple of extra jumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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