Two dogs and a ball

[mum24dog]

Since I got a Chuckit I have had more opportunity to observe the contrasting behaviour between my collie Kye and my hound x Cedar.

 

Both are keen to chase a ball but Cedar gets bored quicker.

 

When I throw it Kye more often than not shoots off in the direction of my outswing without waiting for me to follow through and launch the ball or he just runs to where I threw it last. Clearly he isn't as bright as he thinks he is by anticipating wrongly. Because he is often heading away from where I threw the ball he doesn't know where it is.

 

Cedar on the other hand waits to see where it is going before giving chases.

 

If they ever do both go in the right direction, although Kye is marginally faster over the ground than Cedar he rarely gets the ball because Cedar watches where it is going to land and how it bounces before grabbing it. Kye just makes a grab and misses,

 

Frequently they mislay the ball. Kye will search the whole wide area (including where the ball has never been) as he has no idea where it is, but to give him credit he will find it in the end. Luckily both dogs do respond to directional commands if I know where it is

 

Cedar often just watches him do it and occupies himself doing something else for a while. If he thinks Kye is taking too long you can almost hear him sigh as he goes straight to the ball, presumably because he watched where it went or remembered where they left it.

 

Kye has a habit of dropping the ball down narrow cracks then being unable to get it out. Which one figures out how to get it with minimal fuss? Cedar.

 

Kye acts before he thinks. Cedar thinks before he acts.

 

Which do I think would make the better search dog? Actually Kye because he will keep on at the job longer than Cedar. I expect he could be trained to be more efficient. But which of them is the better problem solver? Cedar.

[juliepoudrier]

Interesting observations. None of my dogs are ever fooled by fake throws and a swinging arm, but actually wait for the item to be launched to take off after it.

 

J.

[GentleLake]

Interesting.

 

I've had BCs who quickly learned to watch where the ball or disc is going before they take off after it (and/or watch it in the air), and ones who are just too eager to watch and end up like Kye missing where it goes.

 

It's fascinating watching how different dogs think . . . or don't think.

[Shetlander]

We have a limited space to play in so Quinn often takes off before I throw. Mr. Smarty Pants sometimes gets beaned with the ball when he anticipates its route. He is great at finding a lost toy, but Find It is another of our games and one he played a lot last summer while on reduced activity for a partial cruciate tear. I have never had a dog as fetch mad or eager to play as Quinn, but he is my first purebred Border Collie.

[Camden's Mom]

I always had assumed the game of fetch went something like this: 1. Handler throws ball 2. Dog waits to see where ball goes (or is going in the air) 3. Dog chases and retrieves ball to handler. Rinse and repeat.

 

Then we got Camden (BC) who plays the game EXACTLY how you described Kye playing fetch. We've had people watch our fetch games and ask if we trained him to go out before the ball. "Nope." I tell them "He's made up his own rules for this game." Honestly the only way we can play fetch properly is if I specifically tell him to "wait", throw the ball and then release him to go get it. Usually (because it's just less hassle) we wait for him to go out, turn around to watch us and throw the ball in his general vicinity.

 

I just figured this was a BC thing, but others seem to have BCs that know how to play a proper game of fetch. Doesn't bother me, either way, but it's interesting to know that the majority of BCs play the game like other dogs.

 

BTW, Cedar sounds like a trip. While I was reading the original post I kept imagining him rolling his eyes at Kye... often.

[alligande]

Rievaulx can read my husbands throws amazingly well, no matter how hard he tries to fool him it never works. I on the other hand do not throw well, by hand or with a Chuck-it and he often gets it wrong, and I am sure its my lack of consistency. When it comes to catching he can out run most any dog the only challenge he has is putting the breaks on early he has been known to slide by. On his own he rarely misjudges.

[TEC]

I don't do SAR, yet it would seem to me that stick-to-it-iveness and problem solving would be sought after traits. Kye and Cedar each have their unique strengths.

Nothing like a good ball and/or disk game. My border collie and I try to mix-up the rules (sometimes mine and sometimes hers) so that the game is fresh.

 

In our versions (after we warm-up with throw-release-run-catch, all on-the-fly) there is a distinct place for the dog running-out ahead before the ball is thrown. I call various plays -- e.g. quick shovel passes over the center, Hail Mary's, and crossing routes under the secondary. With body language and verbal cue, I tell her to run out in advance on a set pattern, so that I can throw the ball like a QB in North American football. I lead her in order that the ball arrives in the general vicinity of the spot her path is expected to take. It's as much about my throw, as it is her catch. If she is receiving most of those in stride and from the air, I'll change-up with for instance, a left to right crossing pattern, but throw a little left, so that her path looks like an "S" shape. She can do short button-hooks if I throw at her tail.

 

A find-it game evolved from our stockwork commands. She's energetic and doesn't stop until it's located.

 

For us, the trick to get her to pay attention, was to try to make nearly every throw result in a successful on-the-fly catch. Small variations from the expected throw became larger and larger, but never unreasonable. When Josie returns a toy, she sometimes jabs me with a, "C'mon dude, you have a better arm than that," look in her eyes, and I just say with a wry smile,"The wind caught it," or, "Sun was in my face." But she knows. There are as many routes as a person's imagination allows. It's great mental and physical exercise for both of us. -- TEC

[gcv-border]

Kye sounds very much like my dog - The Great Anticipator. I often try to throw the ball in a different direction from where he is heading in order to try and get him to watch me more often, but unless I throw it more than 90-100 degrees to either side of him (at which point he 'loses' it). he can either see it in his peripheral vision and alters his path or will hear it hit the ground and can run to get it there. He has 'back-up' detection systems.

 

He will also overrun his ball or do the 'BC slide' to scoop up the ball. God forbid that he should slow down a bit to give himself a better chance to pick up the ball on the first try. Sigh.

 

Well, at least he is having fun - I think.

[Gideon's girl]

Both of mine are never fooled or faked and they get to where the ball is going to land before the ball does. They have a fantastic grasp of geometry and physics. They can anticipate where I am going to throw the ball and how far it will go. If I throw the ball on the roof, they are always under it when it comes off the roof. We always just thought it was a BC superpower.

[NorthfieldNick]

I've got one of each, but the one who runs out has terrible aim, and the one who waits has no brakes, so it usually ends up with them both going for the ball, one missing, and the other going ass-over-teakettle with the ball in his mouth. It's like watching a comedy routine!

[Gideon's girl]

That sounds like fun!!

[BCjetta]

My aussie watches the ball as he runs...he's looking up. Both border collies would run in the direction they thought I was throwing it in unless I tell them to wait and throw it first. If I do that, they would both track the ball. If the ball is ahead of my young dog she will see it and will sometimes jump up to catch it. My old one would always wait until it had hit the ground a few times before sliding to get it.

[mum24dog]

Rievaulx can read my husbands throws amazingly well, no matter how hard he tries to fool him it never works. I on the other hand do not throw well, by hand or with a Chuck-it and he often gets it wrong, and I am sure its my lack of consistency.

 

I'm deliberately inconsistent in an attempt to make him think and watch. it hasn't worked so far but Kye is quite slow to pick things up if they aren't predictable so maybe one day he'll get it.

[D'Elle]

I play fetch with 2 border collies: Jes and Kit.

Jes drops the ball near me and immediately takes off running. If I don't throw the ball in the direction he is running, he will have no clue where it went.

Kit is the one who watches where the ball goes and she always knows where it is. she has no interest in bringing the ball back to me, however. she will just go get it and then stand there with it until she decides a few seconds later to let Jes have it. Jes by that time has found her because he knows she will have the ball. He has never learned to wait to see where I am going to throw it.

I don't know how I would play ball if either one of them were not here.