gcv-border Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I am seeing more courses that require one to send their dog to the back side of the jump. I can manage to do this if I am in front of my dog, but I would like to know how to train him to take the back side of jumps. I have a few ideas, but I am sure (I know!) that there are probably better ways to do this that what I am thinking about. I have checked out Youtube, but didn't see anything helpful. Can anyone point me to a training video or explain how you have taught this skill to your dog? Thanks, Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'm definitely too new to agility. I can block my dog and tell him to go around, but I'm with you, there must be a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 We think of our handling in general as midpoints, we handle midpoint to midpoint with the obstacles being in between. So for us, I put pressure on that midpoint or path as the dog is approaching the jump that is suppose to be the back side. This continues to send the dog forward on the path he is on and when he passes the plane of the jump then I am able to draw him back into me by my direction change. I don't know if that makes any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yes, it makes sense. I understand about putting pressure on a dog's path. Will have to try it to see how it works. Not sure how this is going to work if I am out of position - although the goal would be to always be in position to handle, I often am handling from behind so was hoping for a verbal and/or some sort of hand signal too. Jovi We think of our handling in general as midpoints, we handle midpoint to midpoint with the obstacles being in between. So for us, I put pressure on that midpoint or path as the dog is approaching the jump that is suppose to be the back side. This continues to send the dog forward on the path he is on and when he passes the plane of the jump then I am able to draw him back into me by my direction change.I don't know if that makes any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I have heard people put a 'back' command with this, but honestly, most if the time the dog is already there, so the verbal isn't doing much. I have been doing what i described with Renoir who is often ahead with good success without a verbal, he is sensitive enough that the energy of me pushing on the line sends him out even with him ahead. ETA: I struggle with verbal commands being late, so try to run with as few verbals as possible so I don't get tongue tied. I could see adding a verbal command to the back side if I wasn't having success with just the pressure, but since I am I haven't added it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I have the same problem with verbals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I have the same problem with verbals. Me too, me too. I try not to use verbals, but sometimes they just come out. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian's Mom Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Me three. Just glad mine seems to go more off body position than verbal. And even then I forget that I have a left arm. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 My daughter flaps both arms like a chicken, but in her defense, she is definitely in that gawky teenage stage, so any day now the pieces will all come back together. On the other hand, there is no hope for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I am another who does not use many commands realistically I use two on a course, contact as a reinforcer to remember to stop at the end, but it is just a reinforcer as he knows his job and his name to get his attention coming out of a tunnel or playing snooker or other tight situations. We have other words but as I am in a flat out sprint most of the time trying to speak is challenging. Regarding backsides, I have been relying on my body position, shoulders, arms and his responsive to me, if I am not in the right place it is not happening, and I don't think I would ever be able to get a verbal command out with the correct timing I just can't think ahead that well, it is why I struggled with Cik/cap I just could not get the words out, while using Linda Ms motion concepts I stand a chance of getting it right... Maybe. Interestingly Linda M has a video where she uses verbals for backsides just to show her training and that her use of verbals is part of her system. Still doesn't mean I can remember what to say though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I rely on body movement to cue back sides of jumps. The direction of my path until the dog commits should show her where to go. Tessa is really good about it. Dean is not - he will cut in and take the front of the jump. I've been working with a portable "wing" to work back sides with him. He is going around the "wing" to get onto the back side of the jump. I am hoping he will learn the body language from this and eventually be able to do it on regular jumps. I might end up giving Dean a cue for back sides. He is very verbal and it might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 One hint for all: Let's say you want the dog to go around the left side of the jump standard. Be sure that your left foot is forward when you stop, and it is exactly (well, in practice anyway!) lined up with the standard; your left arm is extended, held extended until the dog has passed the upright. At that point you rock back, before you lift your left foot and before you move your right foot anything other than down. By then, dog should be coming around the standard, and your left foot can move, your arm has dropped, and you are on your right foot turning into the dog. You should be a bit ahead of dog, more as you both get better at it. Hope that makes sense...hard to write in words vs. demonstrating! diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Dean is not - he will cut in and take the front of the jump. My trainer noticed I have what she calls a 'sneaky toe.' This is where when I am pushing out on a path like a backside my toe will curl inward toward the jump instead of staying perpendicular to the dogs path and Renoir will take this as an invite to curl into the jump. I am sure the twist of my foot affects my hips and upper body slightly as well. So I have had to spend some embarrassing time in the yard sans dog pretending to do maneuvers and freezing to see what my feet are actually doing. It's a good thing we live in the woods and my neighbors can't see how crazy I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 One hint for all: Let's say you want the dog to go around the left side of the jump standard. Be sure that your left foot is forward when you stop, and it is exactly (well, in practice anyway!) lined up with the standard; your left arm is extended, held extended until the dog has passed the upright. At that point you rock back, before you lift your left foot and before you move your right foot anything other than down. By then, dog should be coming around the standard, and your left foot can move, your arm has dropped, and you are on your right foot turning into the dog. You should be a bit ahead of dog, more as you both get better at it. Hope that makes sense...hard to write in words vs. demonstrating! diane That's a good description. I've never analysed how I do it but that's it - plus an "out round" or just "round" cue depending on which dog I am running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I agree - good description. I will try it soon. Thanks, Jovi One hint for all: Let's say you want the dog to go around the left side of the jump standard. Be sure that your left foot is forward when you stop, and it is exactly (well, in practice anyway!) lined up with the standard; your left arm is extended, held extended until the dog has passed the upright. At that point you rock back, before you lift your left foot and before you move your right foot anything other than down. By then, dog should be coming around the standard, and your left foot can move, your arm has dropped, and you are on your right foot turning into the dog. You should be a bit ahead of dog, more as you both get better at it. Hope that makes sense...hard to write in words vs. demonstrating! diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryna Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Hi all! I'm sure this is a stupid question, but I'm an agility beginner (went to a few practice sessions last summer and then moved cross country and haven't had the chance since). I'm looking to start up again, and was checking out the posts, and I am confused by this one. What do you all mean by the 'back' side of the jump? I don't remember them being different from one side to the other, and just sent my dog whichever way I pleased. Maybe these are a different kind of jump, or what am I missing? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 It means that when you are running a course you do not take the jump from the side you are approaching from but direct the dog to take the jump from behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana A Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Bryna, it means the dog passes the jump without taking it, then turns and takes it from the opposite side. It's challenging because dogs typically will want to take the obvious side they can see, so the handler must position himself such as to push the dog past the jump wing or standard, then cue the dog to turn and take the jump from the new side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 I learned to teach this from Silvia Trkman's foundations class. I stood near the front/edge of the jump and used my leg and hand to signal going around the jump. I would post a youtube video, but I confess that I have not figured out how to do this on this board. And you're correct. I used to never see these on course, and now it seems there is at least one per course. type in "Silvia Trkman Foundations" in a Youtube search. I'm sure you will find some good youtube videos showing how to teach this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Also, Silvia Trkman offers her videos on DVD. This is a skill she teaches in foundations, so it would be included on her foundations dvd. As I recall, she starts out having students doing it with just one jump, and then we kept increasing the number of jumps in a row that we were sending to the backside. It was quite challenging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryna Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Aha, lol, that makes sense! I feel like such a dork now. I can definitely see why that would be tough, particularly if you couldn't get ahead of your dog for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.