hemangiosarcoma/diet ?

[Liz P]

Any dog that suddenly loses weight with no change in diet or activity level needs to see a vet ASAP. No one here can give you an answer because we can't see your dog, do an exam, get test results, etc.

 

There is a HUGE genetic component to many types of cancer, hemangiosarcoma included.

[jb777]

opp

[Liz P]

Photos aren't going to tell us much, if anything at all. I am not sure what you want out of this thread.

[GentleLake]

I switched to kibble, and than she gained weight. So there was no reason to visit the vet.

 

You switched to kibble . . . from what?

 

If you were making a homemade diet -- or just feedinging another brand of kibble -- and she gained weight when you switched, this suggests to me that whatever she was eating prior to the switch wasn't meeting her needs calorically. Perhaps larger portions of what she was eating before may have helped her to maintain her weight. Or perhaps there was something else lacking in that diet, such as fat.

 

Without specifics and w/out her having been seen by a vet for this, it's all speculation, of course, but, again, there can be many reasons for weight loss.

[jb777]

She had a history of Pancreatitis. Which means a lifestyle of LOW FAT ( The Honest Kitchen plus boiled chicken ) food. So maybe that's why she lost weight. Then she had kibble that gave her weight. When a dog has Pancreatitis, they have a limited choice for food. I get it now though. I'll never know. I'm just trying to find an answer from thin air. I'm not sure what would regulate a dog with so many problems? Pancreatits, Spleen Tumor. It's too bad, cause we were having a good time.

 

Thanks for your replies

[Shetlander]

I am so sorry for your loss and understand trying to make sense of what happened. I lost my heart dog 9 years ago and to this day I sometimes start wondering what if I had tried this approach or gone to that vet? All these years later, the only things I know for sure are I did the best I knew how at the time, I always had his best interests first in mind and I couldn't have loved a dog more.

Hemangiosarcoma is such a cruel and shocking disease in how fast it progresses. I can't imagine losing a dog so unexpectedly like that.

[Liz P]

You need to stop beating yourself up. You will probably never get the answers you want. The two diseases were unrelated. You had bad luck. You did the best you could for your dog.

[Diana A]

I had an older dog (I think he was about 13 or 14) start to lose weight and it was bad kidneys. Apparently he was peeing out most of the protein he was eating because his kidneys were over-taxed and just dumping it all instead of filtering like they should. The vet put him on blood pressure medication and a low-protein prescription food and the weight came right back on. i just had a similar problem with my 12 year old - losing weight, and peeing a bit more than normal. I changed his food to lower protein (non-prescription Wysong Senior Diet) and he bounced right back. Of course there could be many other causes, but kidney issues are a common one in older dogs. I don't think 8 is that old though. Even though he's doing better now, doing blood work might not be a bad idea just to head off any future problems.

[jb777]

I must learn more about nutrition for next time. No dry food ever for my next dog.

 

Thanks

[juliepoudrier]

So what you really wanted was for everyone to agree that dry food caused your dog's hemangiosarcoma and death? I'm so glad we took the time to give you thoughtful answers so you could just ignore it all and go with your original conclusion anyway. I do hope if you make your own food for your next dog that you at least gain enough knowledge about canine nutrition to do it right.

 

J.

[jb777]

I really appreciate all the replies. They are incredibly helpful for me. Regardless of people's choice. I really wanted people's answers here. I just wanted a discussion that was helpful to me. Believe me,this is more about caring about my dog than being right on this issue.

 

Please, it was no waste of time. It was a valuable discussion for me.

 

Much respect to you all!!! And long life for your dogs!!!!

[mum24dog]

No dry food ever for my next dog.

 

Thanks

And on what basis have you made that decision?

[Maralynn]

I am a fan of raw and minimally processed foods for dogs. That said, there is A LOT more to canine nutrition than just keeping your dog off of kibble. Cancer is cruel and you need to quit blaming yourself. It's not your fault that your dog got cancer.

[gcv-border]

And on what basis have you made that decision?

 

I agree that your decision to never feed dry food is not fact-based. It seems like more of a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Once a bit of time goes by, research and rethink your ideas on dog nutrition.

 

Heck, add a bit of water to kibble and you will have 'wet' food.

 

Jovi

[jb777]

I fed Eukanuba dry for 2 yrs of my dog's life. And that was the only thing she ate, she almost died from pancreatitis. Bloody stools. The vet was able to save her life. Rice also seemed to cause a bad reaction for her. It was horrible. This was 5 yrs ago, and there wasn't as much info on the internet as there is now. Luckily I found an independent pet store, and the women suggested The Honest Kitchen. This was my last hope, we were running out of time. I tried it. It is a water based food. You add like a 1/2 cup of water or so to dehydrated food. Added boiled chicken. Finally she passed a firm stool, and just about cried. She was fine for the next 5 years.

 

August 2012 she seemed to be losing weight. I went from the THK to Acana chicken & potato dry. She gained weight. Stools looked fine. She liked it.

 

At some point she was heavy. She looked fine to me, but I should have been weighing her all the time, looking back. She went from 32 lbs to 52 lbs. in 7 months. Whatever was in the DRY FOOD (fillers/carbs/starch/ = sugars) feeds tumors. Dry food wears out organs. Puts a strain on them. She wasn't overly fed either. 2 cups split in half, then reduced to 1 1/2 cups. The dog food should have a warning label. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR DOGS WITH PANCREATITIS/CANCER (even thought I wasn't aware of the tumor, I was aware of pancreatitis). I should have bought another wet food. But who knows? She may have still died.

 

After watching these 2 videos. The lady vet explains how dry food slowly kills dogs. The dogs don't drink enough water to digest HARD PROCESSED FOOD. Imagine day after day of that??? What that does to internal organs. All the fillers. Dogs are carnivores not omnivores. They are not built to digest this stuff. It's tragic in my opinion and a crime to dogs that it is being sold to them. My dog was at it's healthiest when she did not eat it. Whenever she ate it she got really sick. She had a tumor, but I believe the dry food made her fat, and also fed the tumor. She still may have died, I know. But from my experience with this dog I WILL NEVER GIVE A DOG DRY FOOD AGAIN. WATCH THESE VIDEOS.

 

 

 

I joined this Facebook page on Spleen Tumor Awareness. Look at all the dogs dying everyday on here. At around 8-10 years of age. Dogs dying from tumors. A lot of people are feeding dry dog food to these dying pets. In my opinion and experience there is a huge connection between dog heath and dry food. I think it's unconscious behavior selling junk to people. It helped kill my dog. This is my experience and opinion. I'm allowed to voice it. Thanks for letting me.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/spleentumor/

[Liz P]

Are you somehow affiliated with those videos?

 

I understand you are upset, but your are grasping at wild theories.

 

BTW, no, dogs are not obligate carnivores (but cats are). Dogs are opportunistic carnivores, meaning then can and will eat non meat food sources like fruits, veges and gasp, even grains.

[Smalahundur]

It might be your "experience and opinion", and of course you are "allowed to voice it".

Just don´t expect me to agree with it. There are several things wrong with your reasoning, Liz pointed a few out.

Oh and sorry for your loss, but no evil kibble producers killed your dog, a nasty disease did.

[juliepoudrier]

Sigh. Yep nasty kibble killed your dog and tens of thousands of others. It's a wonder any dog survives in this terrible kibble-filled world. I'll go tell all my dogs that they should be dead. Time to stop feeding the troll.

 

As I said before, you wanted affirmation of your own beliefs. You didn't get it, and now apparently you're going to rant on about what you believe, even if there is no real data to support your claims. I'm done trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone who clearly has an agenda and a tightly closed mind to go with it.

 

J.

[Liz P]

I agree.

[Maralynn]

Last month an aquaintance lost their 8y/o GSD to hemangio. Raw fed for most of it's life and I believe the owner followed a minimal vaccination schedule as well. I think that poor diet (which includes some kibbles but certainly not all) contributes a lot more to chronic issues (skin/coat, ear, digestive) than it does to cancer.

[jb777]

I just wanted to have a discussion about diet, not interested in any other agenda.

 

Thanks again.

[Shetlander]

Well, there are many very huge advocates of feeding raw on these boards but I can't recall any saying kibble causes or "feeds" hemangiosarcoma. Many of us give our dogs kibble and have for decades so we are unlikely to agree with that theory. Quinn (Nature Boy) eats a cooked diet from a premix because that is what he needs. The other two, soon to turn 15 and 11, eat kibble.

 

It is understandable to want to look for a something specific that can be the main cause of a disease that we never want to see happen again to one of our dogs. We all make choices the best we can for our dogs' well-being. I don't believe the evidence is in that kibble is killing dogs or I wouldn't be feeding it to my own, obviously. That said, there are many, many people who are strong advocates of feeding raw and feel it is the best diet for their dogs, also obviously. You could search for some threads on raw or start one up if you want to discuss how to provide a healthy raw diet and all its merits. I don't see this particular discussion going anywhere you want it to.

 

Just a word of caution, diet is a hot button topic among dog people and discussions can turn heated fast. I feel this is because we know how important diet is and we all love our dogs and want what is best for them. Statements that imply one diet is killing dogs, especially when there is insufficient research to prove that, don't tend to go over well with people who have chosen that diet for their own (beloved) dogs.

[mum24dog]

BTW, no, dogs are not obligate carnivores (but cats are). Dogs are opportunistic carnivores, meaning then can and will eat non meat food sources like fruits, veges and gasp, even grains.

Of course they will. You only have to watch a dog that has access to such foods to know that.

 

Windfall apples are the best in my dogs' opinion, plus green beans.

 

I have to cut off the lower branches of the plum tree to stop them eating too many stones.

I have to grow tomatoes where they can't reach them. They'll eat the raspberries off the canes but they won't eat the blackcurrants or gooseberries. They'll dig up potatoes.

 

And that's before starting a list of their favourite weeds.

 

My attitude is that if something isn't toxic in the quantities they consume and doesn't upset their digestion the only reason to stop them is because they are stealing too much our crops (such as they are because we only have a small garden).

 

Anyone can trawl the net and find someone to support their own opinion but that doesn't make it correct. You have to consider the opinions of those who don't agree with you as well to form a balanced view.

[mum24dog]

I think that poor diet (which includes some kibbles but certainly not all) contributes a lot more to chronic issues (skin/coat, ear, digestive) than it does to cancer.

This is possibly true for some dogs IME.

 

Our BC was fed one of the worst kibbles in kennels before we got him and had a very scurfy coat. Within 3 days on a better kibble it had cleared up.

 

Of course stress can cause such a condition too but I would expect that he would still have been under stress after such a short time in our home.

 

I've also known skin conditions clear up when the dog has been changed to a raw diet, and others that persisted no matter what was changed in the dog's life.

 

So no conclusions to be drawn really.

[rlwzgd]

I'm assuming you didn't read my post? My dog was on people food (made in a very specific way) for 12 years... Judging by the others that posted, he died the fastest - we had two days warning instead of weeks or months... So if you want to take something away from this discussion with limited data points and no controls, it'd be that dogs on people food die faster after contacting cancer.

 

I'm sorry for your loss, if you want to blame yourself, your dog food or whatever, I won't stop you any more than I've already tried.