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hemangiosarcoma/diet ?


jb777
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Two dogs who died of it. Both ate a variety of foods. From what I can remember: Purina One Lamb and Rice, Eagle Power Pack, Pro Plan Perform, Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach, Evo (all 3 varieties), a wide variety of treats, people food, etc.

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I think this is the form of cancer Aspen died from (*think*)... He ate a very specifically prepared cooked food his entire life because he couldn't stomach dog food or raw despite the vet's efforts to normalize his insides (so read, he always had digestive problems)...

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Had one dog pass from this. She ate quality kibble most of her life (Solid Gold, Innova, etc.), then ate homemade raw the last four or five years of her life.

 

Why would you think that diet is important in the development of this? (not questioning, just curious) Vets don't seem to know why dogs get it....

 

diane

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Mac died of this at the ripe old age of 15. Well, we assume it was what was causing him enough pain at that point (along with arthritis) that he was no longer enjoying life so he was put down - so, it didn't really "kill" him but it might have had he lived longer. His was quite huge (on the spleen) at the time.

 

He had primarily eaten Purina (the regular blue bag), Purina puppy as a small pup, and then Purina One Weight Control for a while (he'd gotten quite overweight in his later middle age), and then maybe some California Natural when he was quite old. And people food and bones and Milk-Bone biscuits.

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My dog (BC MIx), developed Pancreatitis from eating Eukanuba dry for the 1st 2 yrs of her life. I switched to boiled chicken plus the honest kitchen for the next 5 yrs. She was doing great. Beef wasn't good for her Pancreatitis, so it was hard to mix up the diet. I believe in my opinion that the dry food was not species appropriate for the dog, and her health suffered from it. Also she had a bad reaction to rice.

 

after research. and watching this VET talk. I'm convinced that DRY DOG FOOD is bad for dogs period.

 

 

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Eukanuba was developed as mink food and put a real nice show coat on dogs, but the mineral profile was off so a lot of puppies, that their owners thought they were feeding the best, ended up with hip dysplasia.

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I lost a dog to hemangiosarcoma when she was 12. For the first 7 years of her life she ate mid grade to higher end kibble (Merrick, Nutro, Canidae, Innova and the like) For the last 5 years she ate raw and with some grain free kibble and The Honest Kitchen food at times.

 

While I currently make it a point to feed high quality foods and beleive that they can promote good health and quality of life I will point out that, when I was growing up, the family GSD mix ate Ol' Roy and lived to be 15 with no cancer issues, And I know several other similar stories.

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It's a normal human reaction to want to find a cause when bad things happen. Eukanuba is not great dog food in my opinion, but you don't really know that is what caused your dog's pancreatitis. Lots of dogs eat Eukanuba, or much worse, and live long healthy lives. Trying to find some connection between diet and hemangiosarcoma is even more dicey. My dog ate high end, kibble for the her entire life, and grain free for the last 7 of her 12 years. As a 12 year old she was still active, well muscled, limber, never experienced any allergies or digestive problems, and appeared destined to enjoy several more years of good quality life. Then she collapsed one morning, and after a day of x-rays, blood tests, more x-rays, more blood tests and rapid decline, I accepted the inevitable and wished her godspeed. I didn't have her necropsied, but all the classic signs of hemangiosarcoma, including a suspicious shadow around her heart on x-rays, were there.

 

I am active in a large dog training club and I know lots of dog nerds. Many of them have lost dogs to hemangiosarcoma, and the diets have ranged from raw fed from the day they were weaned, to stuff I wouldn't feed to any animal. Grain free, almost entirely meat, meat and raw veggies, fresh meat with some cooked grain, high end kibble, yucky stuff.... name a diet, and I can name a dog fed that diet that died of hemangiosarcoma.

 

Cancer happens because our cells divide 1,000,000,000,000,000 times in our life time, according to the cell biology text book I use for my class. The number is no doubt less for dogs with their shorter life span, but still, the number of times cells divide in an life span of over a decade is enormous. In some of those cell divisions, mistakes in copying the DNA happen. Some of those mistakes are harmless, some not so harmless. Protect yourself and your loved ones from things that are known to increase the mistakes in copying DNA (tobacco, uv-exposure, x-rays, many pesticides, delicious charcoal grilled meat), but don't beat yourself up about any particular cancer being caused by any particular diet. The only sure way to avoid cancer is to die of something else first.

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Eukanuba was developed as mink food and put a real nice show coat on dogs, but the mineral profile was off so a lot of puppies, that their owners thought they were feeding the best, ended up with hip dysplasia.

Did you see there is a huge recall on Eukanuba and Iams right now. It even made the Nightly News.

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Thank you all so much for your posts! I really appreciate the answers! My dog's illness has really made me do a lot of research. And I know in some ways I'm guessing as to what can happen from diet.

 

Can anybody tell me what would cause a dog to start to LOSE WEIGHT approaching 8 yrs of age? Would it be ANEMIA? Or the beginning stages of hemangiosarcoma? And what I mean is feeling all the bones in the body, even the facial structure, legs, spine. This is what happened a year ago.

 

I then changed her diet to Acana Chicken & Burbank Potato dry kibble from THK. Then she gained some weight and was looking good. Seemed to really like the food. No vomiting or loose stools. The stools did get bigger though.

 

Everything was fine from August of last year to June. On June 8th I had to take her to the VET cause I notticed a change in breathing. On July 5th I had to put her down.

 

I'm getting more accepting of the loss as time heals sad wounds. I look forward to having a dog again. But I want the next dog to have a long life. And I want to learn as much as I can, so I don't have a sense of failure again. I would be more at peace if she passed from 12+ yrs than 8 1/2. It's just how I feel about it.

 

Thank you for any help info. I loved my dog deeply like a child, and just want to do better next time. I will avoid dry kibble. That is from this experience. I need to get books next time as well on diet and nutrition. Thanks!

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Did you see there is a huge recall on Eukanuba and Iams right now. It even made the Nightly News.

They are owner by P&G, which just had another huge recall on dog and cat food. That makes me suspicious.

 

This is the perfect time and place to tell people that if you haven't already, go to Dogfoodadvisor.com and sign up for email alerts on dog food recalls. Then you will be amongst the first to know about recalls instead of the last.

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Well, I've fed mainly kibble to all my dogs all their lives, though they also get fresh and cooked meats (and other stuff: eggs from my chickens, cottage cheese and yogurt, etc.). My 16 year old (yes, 16) eats Purina One because that's what she'll eat and I figure she's at the end of her natural lifespan anyway and so why not feed her what she likes? On days when she goes off her feed, which she does occasionally, I will brown venison or some of my own lamb and she eats that. Raw food doesn't really agree with her any longer, but she occasionally still gets some raw meat. She is a mast cell cancer survivor, and at this point I suspect her heart is what will give out before anything else gets her (grade 4-5 murmur, likely mitral valve prolapse, and has been on hearts meds for at least 5 years, probably longer, just can't remember off the top of my head).

 

The rest of my dogs eat a mid-to-high quality kibble, depending on what my life at the time was like. So far, every one of my border collies (and one border collie mix) who have passed on has made it to age 15, and actually within a few months of 16. The mix lived to 17+. Of the dogs who have passed on, they had to be euthanized for reasons not related to any cancers or nutritional issues. By the way, I also have a 14.5 year old, who most certainly will make it to his 15th birthday, barring any disasters. I have one who is 13.5 and another who will turn 12 in a few months.

 

I do think it's worthwhile to consider what things we might do differently to improve the lives/lifespans of our pets, but honestly when cancer is involved I think there are many more likely potential causes (e.g., all the chemicals we put on or in them, overvaccination, not to mention the things they are exposed to incidentally in their environment) that I would consider potential problem causers before (or at least in addition to) diet. I'm not saying diet isn't important, and by all means feed your dogs the best diet you can afford or come up with, but I want to caution you that many people think they are doing their dogs a favor with raw or homemade diets, and yet they fail to approach such diets by considering what the dog needs nutritionally for maximum health. IMO a poorly thought out, nutritionally unbalanced raw or homemade diet is no better for a dog than a poorly made kibble, and could be worse.

 

If I can draw an analogy to humans (not usually the best choice), many people live good, healthy lives and still get cancer. Some people do all the wrong things and don't get cancer. And then there is the middle group, who do most things right but may indulge more in some things than they "shouldn't." Some of those folks get cancer and some don't. The biology of cancer is quite complex, and while we can do some things to help protect ourselves from it, there still are no guarantees. I'm sure you know that logically, but I think it bears repeating because sometimes in our grief we will look for one thing to blame and it's not usually that simple.

 

J.

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Hello jb777,


I'm so sorry for the loss of your dog, especially since she was only eight and a half years old. It's good that you are trying to research possible contributing factors to dogs dying from cancer at an early age.


I feel that one reason that many dogs are succumbing to cancer in what should be the prime of their lives is because they are subjected to numerous toxic chemicals sometimes daily. Their diet is one possible source of toxins, of course, but also their treats, toys, bowls, preventative medications, and environments are often laden with potentially toxic chemicals. I believe that these toxic chemicals serve to weaken the dog's immune systems leaving them vulnerable to disease.


So, in addition to researching the diet of your next dog, also check the ingredients of their treats and avoid any with chemical coloring, flavoring, or preservatives. Find toys that are made from natural materials, rather than synthetics. Use stainless steel bowls for their food and water, instead of plastic. Keep in mind that topical flea and tick medications are toxic chemicals and be prudent in their use. Limit the use of chemicals indoors for cleaning or pest control, as well as the use of herbicides, pesticides, and other chemicals outdoors. Always be mindful of the chemicals to which your dog is exposed and limit that exposure, if possible.


Like you, I treasure my dogs, and I want to do everything that I can to extend their lives. I have found that by being mindful of the chemicals to which they are exposed (and doing what I can to limit their exposure) has greatly helped.


Regards,

nancy

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does anybody know anything about this? thanks

 

 

 

Can anybody tell me what would cause a dog to start to LOSE WEIGHT approaching 8 yrs of age? Would it be ANEMIA? Or the beginning stages of hemangiosarcoma? And what I mean is feeling all the bones in the body, even the facial structure, legs, spine. This is what happened a year ago. Is this normal aging?

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Can anybody tell me what would cause a dog to start to LOSE WEIGHT approaching 8 yrs of age? Would it be ANEMIA? Or the beginning stages of hemangiosarcoma? And what I mean is feeling all the bones in the body, even the facial structure, legs, spine. This is what happened a year ago. Is this normal aging?

 

There can be many reasons for weight loss. Here's one link that lists some:

ttp://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_multi_Weight_Loss_and_Cachexia#.UhDZ6G3j9Lw

 

I have an old gal who was loosing weight a few years ago due to intestinal disease. She wasn't digesting her food properly. She also lost weight when she got Lyme Disease.

 

So, there can be many reasons. If your dog is loosing weight, you really should consult a vet for a diagnosis.

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That is not normal aging and at 8, your dog was not what I consider old. My almost 15 year old Sheltie has a number of health issues (I feel like she is held together with rubber bands and could collapse any day) and has lost much muscle tone but she is not skin and bones. There are a lot of things that could cause weight loss. Have you asked your vet about this?

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If a dog starts loosing that much weight at that age something is abnormal. Before my dog was diagnosed with cancer she looked like a dog in their prime even though she was 12. Looking back the one thing that stands out to me is that she started counter surfing and getting into the garbage and seemed more hungry than usual. But she never lost weight and there weere a couple other things going on in everyday life that could have led to those changes too

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Did you have blood work done to determine the cause of weight loss? It could have been nearly anything, but unintentional weight loss in a dog is like unintentional weight loss in people - you need to figure out why because something is a miss.

 

I can tell you that blood work even won't help all the time. Aspen was 14, nearly 15 and had his annual blood work 2-4 weeks before he died. He fell off the bed rough housing on Wednesday night. He was bleeding out from a tumor that ruptured. We thought he had simply pulled something in his back (he had known back injuries) so we gave him pain reliever on Thursday (the vet was closed) and took him in Friday. By Friday afternoon, he was no longer lucid and we put him down.

 

Do I wonder if I could have done something different? Of course. I asked the vet that very question. His response was that we have the healthiest dogs he's seen (I did cook for him and I put more work into figuring out that diet than my dissertation) and that some breeds of dogs are genetically disposed to cancer (he was a shepherd x aussie maybe). His opinion was that there was nothing that could be done. I looked over the labs (not pretending to be as knowledgeable as the vet, but I wondered if something was missed). There was nothing that was even close to being off - 6 months earlier his red cell was low but normal and had come up to average again. That was it... Certainly nothing that would wave a giant red flag in a nearly 15 year old dog, in my opinion. Looking back, the red blood count might have been pursued more, but there was no other reason to indicate a problem, so we took a wait and see approach.

 

Then comes the question, if I had been able to detect it, what would I have done? He was nearly 15, had arthritis in his hip joints and back from injuries and his life long playmate had died 6 months earlier. The surgery would be aggressive, and recovery would be nearly 2 months. With hindsight, the cancer was so aggressive that 2 months down the road, he likely would've need another surgery. Could I say for sure? No. Was it highly likely? Yes. So, had I known even a week earlier that he had a tumor, would the outcome have changed? I can honestly say that I don't think I would've done anything differently. This is most certainly a judgement call. Grieving a lost friend is the worst thing, but perhaps you can use the same logic to find peace with your own situation.

 

Rebecca

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By the way I had her checkups at vet last year, and even went in for a broken dew claw. All I did was notice some weight loss. Change the diet and she gained weight. There was no other concern like vomit, or loose stools, or behavior. And when I went to the vet this year when she was really sick. They couldn't find the problem yet until it was too late.

 

So a brief weight loss, and then she stated to gain weight. Isn't this somewhat common? I've read threads where people ask, "why is my dog getting thin?". Isn't the usual answer? Try something else for diet? And I did and it worked.

 

But maybe the hemangiosarcoma is a gradual process?

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What you're referring to sounds more like severe muscle wasting. Yes, a starving dog might look like that, but everything I've ever heard (and I'm not a vet) is that absent starving if a dog has lost muscle mass on the head, for example, looking for a disease cause would be warranted. Lyme is one disease known to cause just such wasting. I've not heard of anemia causing that, but as I said, I am not a vet.

 

When I've had dogs lose weight due to inadequate nutrition (my old Boy would lost weight when I had Timberwolf Organics in his food rotation), they would drop off and become a bit ribby but not lose muscle in the way you describe. Had that been the case, I probably would have either taken him to the vet or at least watched him more closely for any other signs that something was wrong.

 

That said, most people I know who have had dogs die of hemangiosarcoma were caught by surprise (that is, noticeable symptoms came on pretty suddenly) and the dog's death came soon after. That is, by the time there were obvious symptoms that something was wrong, it was already at end stage (and this observation seems to be borne out in the discussion in the link I posted below).

 

I did a quick Google search on anemia symptoms and causes. This list of symptoms (geared toward humans) seems to be pretty standard (this one came from womenshealth.gov):

  • Fatigue (very common)
  • Weakness (very common)
  • Dizziness
  • Headache
  • Numbness or coldness in your hands and feet
  • Low body temperature
  • Pale skin
  • Rapid or irregular heartbeat
  • Shortness of breath
  • Chest pain
  • Irritability
  • Not doing well at work or in school

 

Obviously some of those wouldn't necessarily be evident in a dog (the dog can't tell you that it has chest pain, for example), but for people with working or sports dogs, they certainly might notice something as vague as the dog being "a bit off."

 

This link has what appears to be a reasonable discussion of hemangiosarcoma in dogs. Environmental toxins and heritability (for a tendency to develop the disease) are mentioned as likely causes.

 

http://www.modianolab.org/cancer/cancer_hemangiosarcoma.shtml

 

J.

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the first clue I had was when I felt a mass in my dog's abdomen. An ultrasound showed that multiple organs were affected. The vascular nature of hemangio allows for the cancer to spread ridiculously fast. If the primary tumor is on the spleen and you can catch it early enough removing the spleen can be curative. But because it spreads so quickly and dogs remain apparently healthy until the cancer is advanced it is rarely caught at a stage where this is an option. In a way I felt I was fortunate with my dog. She lived for 2 months after the initial diagnosis and didn't really appear sick until the last couple of weeks

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My first clue was my normal, healthy active 12 year old dog stopped wanted to eat much and then vomited after eating. His bloodwork was bad, and then we found a tumor on his upper stomach which had grown large enough to block it. We were going to try to remove it and scheduled surgery then the next day he started bleeding out.

 

Within a week I had a normal dog who was playing with us and going to enter an obedience trial to no dog.

 

It was devastating.

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