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Hey guys, my wife and I are expecting our first baby due in Nov! We have a 6 yr old Border Collie and we are wanting to know from people with experience with BC's and Children if you guys have any tips? We have some concerns that I will lay out to see if anyone else has any experience with.

 

She hasn't really been around children too much. She would meet children when we are on walks, etc and she does fine and lets them pet her as long as its 1 or 2 children, groups are a problem, but it's never been in a household environment, etc. There have been times when we were walking and an entire group of very small children ran at us excited because there was a dog and came over to try to pet her. Our dog got very very scared and overwhelmed and showed signs of aggression. She didnt bite anyone as I quickly saw the signs and was able to calm her and comfort her and things were ok.

 

My sister-in-law just had a baby and when she brought the newborn over, our dog would come over to sniff him in his car seat or while we were holding him and then just ignored him the rest of the time. But my concern lies when the child is starting to crawl around, walk, etc.

 

When other dogs are around she tries to herd them all the time and bite at their back legs/heels. This is the #1 concern for us with a small child. She also likes to chase small animals. Whenever we have had other dogs over, they love our fenced in backyard, but it ALWAYS ends up with the two dogs standing still in the middle of the yard or in a corner because our dog has decided to herd them and wont let them run around and have fun.

 

Please let me know if these could be concerns with children and what we can do now to work on it so it doesnt become an issue.

 

Thanks so much!

 

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Hi,

 

I would suggest taking the blanket that the baby was wrapped in and taking it home before the baby gets there and let your BC get used to the smell and realize someone new is coming into the family. We have always done this with our babies/dogs. Also when you bring the baby home from the hospital show him/her to your BC and allow them to sniff the baby. Obviously not too close for fear of biting but this will allow your BC to welcome the baby into the family. Your BC will become protective of the baby. Our BC is 16 years old and our youngest just left for college. She layed on the back porch for two days moping, always waiting to see/hear that car come down the driveway.

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I just posted a link to this article in another thread about a fearful dog. I don't blame your dog for being overwhelmed when a group of kids ran up!

 

Some good resources would be:

 

www.dogstardaily.com

 

http://www.suzanneclothier.com/

 

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/

 

"Herding" other dogs and people is absolutely unacceptable. If she tries to do it I would verbally correct her and put her in a down stay. If she still tries it I would put her on a leash or long line to physically stop her. Any "herding" behavior from her should instantly end the game. It should have never been tolerated in the first place. It will be harder to break the habit now that she has done it for years, but it is possible.

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What Liz P said. Read those articles. Start working with her today with interrupting her when she 'herds' people and other dogs. Or, train her to a crate, that would be my first choice. If she is well crate trained, she will come to see it as her sanctuary, not a punishment. A crate becomes a safe place for the dog.

 

Not all bcs like kids, as Scout's owner has experienced. One of my girls absolutely loved children. One tolerated them, and the other two would really rather not be around them. Your best bet is to get the general training going now.

 

Check out dogwise.com. They used to sell cd's with different noises on them, kids crying, honking horns, etc. You can also set up baby furniture in the next few weeks or so, so that your dog gets used to them. You can carry a doll around, ask your dog to sit, then let the dog sniff the 'baby'.

 

There are a lot of resources out there. Do NOT get into 'teaching the dog it's place and showing it who is boss'. Your bc needs clear, consistent guidance from you. And you might start planning who would walk/feed the dog if your wife or baby needs to be in the hospital for a few days.

 

If you're going to have a home birth, you might kennel your dog, or use the crate. Which you would already have trained it to.

 

Good luck! Congratulations on your upcoming blessed event!! There is a lot of time for you to prepare for all you need. Please let us know how you get along.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

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I think the reaction to your new nephew is a very good sign. That's what Fergie did when our grandgirl, Elena came over at a few days old. Ferg loved the smell of baby feet. Luckily, the kids live nearby, so Ferg got to see Elena often. By the time Elena was crawling, Ferg was totally used to her, comfortable with her, and calm with her. And Elena was learning about how to react with a dog.

 

I think that the real problem is a sudden influx of a bunch of kids. That's not what's going to happen.

 

I have to say that you might get the reaction of our older daughter to her "new" siblings. When Mari arrived, Vikki (at 4-1/2) was thrilled, wanted to hold her, read to her, whatever. When Charles arrived, Vikki (at 6), said. Oh, another one.

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Hi there ~

I think it will really depend on A) your dog and B ) how you manage things.

First of all, YOUR child will be different from random children your dog may meet in the world. Every dog I own would FREAK if a bunch of kids came running at them! That's like being under attack! Packs of excited children are one of the most terrifying things a dog can meet. But if a dog-savvy child came up to my boy dog nicely, he would grin and wag and be friendly.

So, as your child grows, it will be your job to keep child and dog SAFE - from each other. Things I would reccommend:

1. Let your dog get acquainted with the baby on his own terms. Don't force him to see or smell the baby, let him come on his own.
2. If your dog is not already crate trained, start doing that now. Go slow, go easy, make the crate a happy, safe and comfortable place to be. Food is a terrific incentive and you can even start feeding him his meals in a crate, starting with the door open.

3. As your child starts to walk and crawl, NEVER leave the dog and baby unsupervised together. Not even for a minute. This leads to -

4. Give the dog a safe place to go and be, where the child can't reach him. Put up baby gates. Have a part of the house where the dog can relax and the child cannot get to him. If you can't watch child and dog, put the dog in his safe place. Even if it's only for a minute.

5. As your child grows, do not allow him or her to grab the dog, pull hair, climb on him, lay on him, or any other "invasive" behaviors. The child won't know better and the dog may panic and think he's being mauled by a very small but unpredictable person.
6. Teach your child acceptable behaviors with your dog. Monitor EVERY interecation they have. Do not allow the child to feed the dog his/her food, and don't allow the child to get near the dog's food.

7. Never ever allow the dog to engage in "herding" behaviors with your child. This can lead to inadvertent nipping and that opens up a whole bad can of worms. In fact, try to curb him "herding" other dogs. That's just not a polite behavior for him to engage in, whether with children or other dogs, and could get him in trouble.

And to that I will add this: you will be governing your dog's behavior from the moment your child first crawls. You therefore have the power to make any sort of "herding" behavior a big NO from the very first try - and every try thereafter. You have the power to make sure that behavior never starts. Keep your dog from "herding" the child when s/he's crawling, keep him from doing it when he first walks. Just never let it happen, and it won't. There again the crate and safe area can help keeping them separate, when you and your wife don't have time to monitor both dog and child.

Finally, your dog's perception of "human puppies" is different from yours. Never forget that. Things you may find normal with a baby or toddler he may find alarming. (Screaming, running, falling down, etc.) Remember, toddlers and small children are tremendously unpredictable, and if you find your dog is hypersensitive to the child's movement or play or noises, remember #4. The dog needs a safe place to be. This will in turn keep your child safe.

The thing I feel is that the child you bring into your home and raise along with your dog will be SO much different from children he's met so far. The way you govern the interactions of your dog and child will, from the very first day, shape the rest of their lives together.

Personally, I feel a child growing up with a dog is a very specical gift. My dad has a spaniel mix named Suzy that was my pal and nanny from the day I was born until I was about 8 years old. But my parents made sure I was raised to understand the correct way to behave around a dog, and Suzy was allowed to learn how to live with us kids.

Congratulations on the new addition! :)

~ Gloria

Hey guys, my wife and I are expecting our first baby due in Nov! We have a 6 yr old Border Collie and we are wanting to know from people with experience with BC's and Children if you guys have any tips? We have some concerns that I will lay out to see if anyone else has any experience with.

 

She hasn't really been around children too much. She would meet children when we are on walks, etc and she does fine and lets them pet her as long as its 1 or 2 children, groups are a problem, but it's never been in a household environment, etc. There have been times when we were walking and an entire group of very small children ran at us excited because there was a dog and came over to try to pet her. Our dog got very very scared and overwhelmed and showed signs of aggression. She didnt bite anyone as I quickly saw the signs and was able to calm her and comfort her and things were ok.

 

My sister-in-law just had a baby and when she brought the newborn over, our dog would come over to sniff him in his car seat or while we were holding him and then just ignored him the rest of the time. But my concern lies when the child is starting to crawl around, walk, etc.

 

When other dogs are around she tries to herd them all the time and bite at their back legs/heels. This is the #1 concern for us with a small child. She also likes to chase small animals. Whenever we have had other dogs over, they love our fenced in backyard, but it ALWAYS ends up with the two dogs standing still in the middle of the yard or in a corner because our dog has decided to herd them and wont let them run around and have fun.

 

Please let me know if these could be concerns with children and what we can do now to work on it so it doesnt become an issue.

 

Thanks so much!

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I have a five year old border collie and a 3 year old and a 1 year old. My dog, like yours was not raised around young children but unlike yours was not even particularly fond of well mannered kids. He tolerated them but was clearly waiting for them to leave. He still has no use for strange kids even though he loves his own now. He was however, very well trained and did not herd. As others have said, deal with that. Once the baby comes, you will not have the time nor the energy to deal with that sort of thing. I found that my dog did very well with the babies. They didn't really interfere with his life and his daily routine changed very little as my son loved being carried around outdoors. Another thing you might want to think about is how you will walk your dog once the baby comes. My dog rarely walks on a leash (I know that many people disapprove) and so even when I took the stroller, I could manage both.

 

As you guessed, it gets trickier when the baby starts to move. For two reasons; their falling and subsequent crying is quite perplexing to the dog and they can now come after the dog (slowly at first but they get the hang of it quick). It is a good idea for the dog to have a nice and safe place to go. We don't use a crate but that was not an issue for us. I find that people can be very black and white about how and what should happen between dogs and kids. Don't let your kids grab, don't let them feed the dog etc. And of course, in theory they are right. The reality is that most likely you will be overwhelmed a good majority of the time and your life is going to feel a bit like triage.

 

My advice is do everything that you can now while you still have your wits about you so that when your baby comes you are as prepared as possible. And then, follow your dogs lead. He will let you know how he is feeling. Someone posted a great youtube clip of how subtle the signs can be but your dog will send them. We also tried to prepare our dog for sudden fur pulling by occasionally pulling on his fur while petting him just so that he wasn't totally freaked out by it. I think it helped because you just can't reason with a 16 month old. Once your kid is over three, they can be counted on to show some control and they can understand why we need to treat dogs gently. Toddlers, not so much. So supervise as much as you can but I would also say, don't get too stressed out about it'; your dog and baby will pick up on it. One last thing, more than likely at some point, your dog will give a warning growl when things have gone too far. Treat it as a gift. Your dog is giving a very clear warning, do not punish him for that.

 

Good luck!

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GREAT IDEA, I didnt even think of this! Thanks so much :D

 

 

Hi,

 

I would suggest taking the blanket that the baby was wrapped in and taking it home before the baby gets there and let your BC get used to the smell and realize someone new is coming into the family. We have always done this with our babies/dogs. Also when you bring the baby home from the hospital show him/her to your BC and allow them to sniff the baby. Obviously not too close for fear of biting but this will allow your BC to welcome the baby into the family. Your BC will become protective of the baby. Our BC is 16 years old and our youngest just left for college. She layed on the back porch for two days moping, always waiting to see/hear that car come down the driveway.

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Thanks for the links Liz!! Definitely great stuff.

 

We have always corrected the herding and put an end to it everytime she tries it, but she always tries to see if she can get away with it at first.

 

She has NEVER tried to herd any adults, just dogs, and so my concern there is that the child crawling or beginning to walk would be the same size as a small dog and so while she doesnt herd adults, she may see the child as a dog or small animal she should be herding.

 

These links will be of great service.

 

I just posted a link to this article in another thread about a fearful dog. I don't blame your dog for being overwhelmed when a group of kids ran up!

 

Some good resources would be:

 

www.dogstardaily.com

 

http://www.suzanneclothier.com/

 

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/

 

"Herding" other dogs and people is absolutely unacceptable. If she tries to do it I would verbally correct her and put her in a down stay. If she still tries it I would put her on a leash or long line to physically stop her. Any "herding" behavior from her should instantly end the game. It should have never been tolerated in the first place. It will be harder to break the habit now that she has done it for years, but it is possible.

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Thanks Urge! She is crate trained so this is a great tool we can use and again, I didnt even think of this being something that we can really take advantage of, thanks!

 

Anytime our nephew has cried she didnt even bat an eye. She just continued to lay in her dog bed and didnt care or mind it, so that's a good sign I think.

What Liz P said. Read those articles. Start working with her today with interrupting her when she 'herds' people and other dogs. Or, train her to a crate, that would be my first choice. If she is well crate trained, she will come to see it as her sanctuary, not a punishment. A crate becomes a safe place for the dog.

 

Not all bcs like kids, as Scout's owner has experienced. One of my girls absolutely loved children. One tolerated them, and the other two would really rather not be around them. Your best bet is to get the general training going now.

 

Check out dogwise.com. They used to sell cd's with different noises on them, kids crying, honking horns, etc. You can also set up baby furniture in the next few weeks or so, so that your dog gets used to them. You can carry a doll around, ask your dog to sit, then let the dog sniff the 'baby'.

 

There are a lot of resources out there. Do NOT get into 'teaching the dog it's place and showing it who is boss'. Your bc needs clear, consistent guidance from you. And you might start planning who would walk/feed the dog if your wife or baby needs to be in the hospital for a few days.

 

If you're going to have a home birth, you might kennel your dog, or use the crate. Which you would already have trained it to.

 

Good luck! Congratulations on your upcoming blessed event!! There is a lot of time for you to prepare for all you need. Please let us know how you get along.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

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Thanks Gloria, some great tips here, I am definitely going to use all of these! She is crate trained so definitely something we can take utilize.

 

I am really excited and anxious for my daughter to grow up with a dog and I really hope they bond and she and the dog have a special relationship that you had growing up with your dog. I never had a dog growing up despite my and my siblings constant efforts to get convince our parents otherwise. So, I really really want my daughter to have that.

 

 

Hi there ~

I think it will really depend on A) your dog and B ) how you manage things.

First of all, YOUR child will be different from random children your dog may meet in the world. Every dog I own would FREAK if a bunch of kids came running at them! That's like being under attack! Packs of excited children are one of the most terrifying things a dog can meet. But if a dog-savvy child came up to my boy dog nicely, he would grin and wag and be friendly.

So, as your child grows, it will be your job to keep child and dog SAFE - from each other. Things I would reccommend:

1. Let your dog get acquainted with the baby on his own terms. Don't force him to see or smell the baby, let him come on his own.
2. If your dog is not already crate trained, start doing that now. Go slow, go easy, make the crate a happy, safe and comfortable place to be. Food is a terrific incentive and you can even start feeding him his meals in a crate, starting with the door open.

3. As your child starts to walk and crawl, NEVER leave the dog and baby unsupervised together. Not even for a minute. This leads to -

4. Give the dog a safe place to go and be, where the child can't reach him. Put up baby gates. Have a part of the house where the dog can relax and the child cannot get to him. If you can't watch child and dog, put the dog in his safe place. Even if it's only for a minute.

5. As your child grows, do not allow him or her to grab the dog, pull hair, climb on him, lay on him, or any other "invasive" behaviors. The child won't know better and the dog may panic and think he's being mauled by a very small but unpredictable person.
6. Teach your child acceptable behaviors with your dog. Monitor EVERY interecation they have. Do not allow the child to feed the dog his/her food, and don't allow the child to get near the dog's food.

7. Never ever allow the dog to engage in "herding" behaviors with your child. This can lead to inadvertent nipping and that opens up a whole bad can of worms. In fact, try to curb him "herding" other dogs. That's just not a polite behavior for him to engage in, whether with children or other dogs, and could get him in trouble.

And to that I will add this: you will be governing your dog's behavior from the moment your child first crawls. You therefore have the power to make any sort of "herding" behavior a big NO from the very first try - and every try thereafter. You have the power to make sure that behavior never starts. Keep your dog from "herding" the child when s/he's crawling, keep him from doing it when he first walks. Just never let it happen, and it won't. There again the crate and safe area can help keeping them separate, when you and your wife don't have time to monitor both dog and child.

Finally, your dog's perception of "human puppies" is different from yours. Never forget that. Things you may find normal with a baby or toddler he may find alarming. (Screaming, running, falling down, etc.) Remember, toddlers and small children are tremendously unpredictable, and if you find your dog is hypersensitive to the child's movement or play or noises, remember #4. The dog needs a safe place to be. This will in turn keep your child safe.

The thing I feel is that the child you bring into your home and raise along with your dog will be SO much different from children he's met so far. The way you govern the interactions of your dog and child will, from the very first day, shape the rest of their lives together.

Personally, I feel a child growing up with a dog is a very specical gift. My dad has a spaniel mix named Suzy that was my pal and nanny from the day I was born until I was about 8 years old. But my parents made sure I was raised to understand the correct way to behave around a dog, and Suzy was allowed to learn how to live with us kids.

Congratulations on the new addition! :)

~ Gloria

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Thanks, Puppytoes. I dont know if my dog knows how to growl, lol. She has seriously never ever growled at anything since I have had her for the past 5 years. She was guessed to be 1yr old when I got her from the shelter and I think her previous owners badly abused her, but, I dont know what her life was like the first year. The shelter did say that they think she had a litter of puppies before being brought in there.

 

While her herding instincts are very very strong with other animals, she has never tried to herd any people/adults. Everyone who meets her and sees her comments on how well she is trained. She is a very good dog, the herding other dogs is just the one area we havent been very good with, shes really stubborn with it.

 

A side note, though, our neighbor has 7 cats that just roam around, and the cats will run away from our dog or come around our house and our dog doesnt really care about them, just stands there and watches them but doesnt chase.

I have a five year old border collie and a 3 year old and a 1 year old. My dog, like yours was not raised around young children but unlike yours was not even particularly fond of well mannered kids. He tolerated them but was clearly waiting for them to leave. He still has no use for strange kids even though he loves his own now. He was however, very well trained and did not herd. As others have said, deal with that. Once the baby comes, you will not have the time nor the energy to deal with that sort of thing. I found that my dog did very well with the babies. They didn't really interfere with his life and his daily routine changed very little as my son loved being carried around outdoors. Another thing you might want to think about is how you will walk your dog once the baby comes. My dog rarely walks on a leash (I know that many people disapprove) and so even when I took the stroller, I could manage both.

 

As you guessed, it gets trickier when the baby starts to move. For two reasons; their falling and subsequent crying is quite perplexing to the dog and they can now come after the dog (slowly at first but they get the hang of it quick). It is a good idea for the dog to have a nice and safe place to go. We don't use a crate but that was not an issue for us. I find that people can be very black and white about how and what should happen between dogs and kids. Don't let your kids grab, don't let them feed the dog etc. And of course, in theory they are right. The reality is that most likely you will be overwhelmed a good majority of the time and your life is going to feel a bit like triage.

 

My advice is do everything that you can now while you still have your wits about you so that when your baby comes you are as prepared as possible. And then, follow your dogs lead. He will let you know how he is feeling. Someone posted a great youtube clip of how subtle the signs can be but your dog will send them. We also tried to prepare our dog for sudden fur pulling by occasionally pulling on his fur while petting him just so that he wasn't totally freaked out by it. I think it helped because you just can't reason with a 16 month old. Once your kid is over three, they can be counted on to show some control and they can understand why we need to treat dogs gently. Toddlers, not so much. So supervise as much as you can but I would also say, don't get too stressed out about it'; your dog and baby will pick up on it. One last thing, more than likely at some point, your dog will give a warning growl when things have gone too far. Treat it as a gift. Your dog is giving a very clear warning, do not punish him for that.

 

Good luck!

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Thanks for ALL the great tips and advice guys!!! As most of you stated, I agree, we want to start working with her now before the baby gets here so we are prepared and we dont have any issues.

 

I tried to respond to everyone so if I missed anyone I apologize.

 

Also, it may be good to note that I will be strictly working from home once the baby gets here. So, while my wife is on maternity leave we will both be here all day, every day with the dog and the baby. Subsequently, once my wife returns to work, I will be at home all day with our baby and dog, so I feel like this will be very good for us making it smooth.

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Yes, I agree with everyone on this board. Not all Border Collie's like kids. Make sure that you include your Border Collie with the baby because like any human kid they can become jealous of the new baby. You definitely don't want the BC herding the baby when they start crawling, toddling around.

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You must correct the "herding" behavior before it even starts. Watch her. All dogs give signals showing what they are about to do if you are perceptive enough. A Border Collie that's about to go into "herding" mode will often freeze, stare, crouch or do other very patterned, classic behaviors. You need to tell her to stop it the instant you see one of these behaviors.

 

People who train Border Collies on stock say that once a dog is in motion, the brain has stopped working. It's really true. Correct your dog before she moves, when she is thinking about "herding" but not yet doing it, to have the maximum effect.

 

A gentle nip from a Border Collie can easily rip the skin of a child. You don't want to ever let her get that far.

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THanks scout, jealousy is something we are definitely going to be mindful of and try to make sure doesnt happen. Dont want any bad behavior to happen out of jealousy. We can leave our BC with full run of the house unattended right now while we are at work and there is no destructive behavior. So, I definitely dont want that to start.

 

Do you have any good tips or advice to prevent any type of jealousy?

 

Yes, I agree with everyone on this board. Not all Border Collie's like kids. Make sure that you include your Border Collie with the baby because like any human kid they can become jealous of the new baby. You definitely don't want the BC herding the baby when they start crawling, toddling around.

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Hey Liz, yes we definitely want to make sure she doesnt try to herd our child, which is the point of my making this post so that I am able to find good resources, tips, etc to help prevent this.

 

I will definitely look out for those behaviors. The freeze and crouch I have stopped in the past when I noticed them, however, sometimes she doesnt use the patterened, classic behaviors, or they are so subtle that I dont even notice them and then shes nipping at a dogs heel and I have to stop her once she's already engaged.

 

Here is what she does when she goes into herd mode when it's not a classic sign, so perhaps you can help me at identifying and preventing it in the future:

 

She will be playing with another dog, normal dog play mode, and then she just automatically starts going for the back leg as part of the play mode. So it's something we monitor closely, where if they are playing we stop her immediately as soon as we see that. But they can be playing normally as normal dogs do before then for quite some time.

 

Here's another move she does. If say out in the yard, without any leg or heel biting/nipping, she will do almost like a bump with her chest or nose at a dog when they move and then she just stands there looking at them and this move literally freezes the other dog. The other dog dont move or try to run or anything. Will just stand there frozen. Of course we intervene.

 

But this stuff happens without any signals that I am able to pick up on before they happen. It seems almost like a flip of a switch.

 

Please let me know if you have any tips!

 

Thanks so much!!

 

 

You must correct the "herding" behavior before it even starts. Watch her. All dogs give signals showing what they are about to do if you are perceptive enough. A Border Collie that's about to go into "herding" mode will often freeze, stare, crouch or do other very patterned, classic behaviors. You need to tell her to stop it the instant you see one of these behaviors.

 

People who train Border Collies on stock say that once a dog is in motion, the brain has stopped working. It's really true. Correct your dog before she moves, when she is thinking about "herding" but not yet doing it, to have the maximum effect.

 

A gentle nip from a Border Collie can easily rip the skin of a child. You don't want to ever let her get that far.

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I guarantee you that your dog's behavior changes prior to going into prey drive mode. You just haven't figured out what those "tells" are. Sometimes the clues are extraordinarily subtle. It may be a flick of the ear, a slight shift of how the dog is distributing her weight, a dilation of the pupil. Study her. Look for the pattern. Even better, ask a skilled trainer to spot the signs.

 

I can tell when my dog's lift isn't going to be pretty because of the way his footfalls on the dirt sound during his outrun. He doesn't go any faster or slower, but there is something different. I couldn't even put my finger on it, but I recognize it when it happens. The human brain is excellent at spotting patterns in the chaos, if you will allow it.

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See what happens, maybe your dog will understand that a baby is delicate and needs to be treated gently and guarded as mine has done with my daughter. I have an almost five year old daughter and a 9 year old son. My bc is still young and was raised around my kids from a pup. From the first my daughter and him took to each other. He is gentle around her and guards her very protectively. She is troubled and difficult sometimes having gone through a divorce and all but being around the dog calms her so much when she is upset or moody. And the dog is pushy a lot of the time but when he's with her he's also calm and gentle. I let them play alone together, he just sort of sits down beside her and moves slowly and obeys her commands. But I don't let him play alone with my son, the both of them play to rough together and when thats done a couple times it seems to be hard to break the habbit. He tries to herd him and hes nipped him so you have to keep a close eye on what kind of relationship he has with the baby.

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rkrdan, you seem to have an ideal situation to raise your daughter with your Border Collie. I applaud your efforts to make the new transition as smooth as possible. I have every confidence that you, your wife, your new daughter, and your dog will be just one big happy family!

 

Cheers!

 

Amy

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