videos - help or hurt?

[gcv-border]

I was watching some live streaming of the Southeast Cynosports action this weekend, and saw a fair amount of handling mistakes.

 

When I go to an agility trial, I try to be at ringside when I know a talented handler is going to be running - hoping to pick up some tips. (timing, strategy, cues, positioning, etc.)

 

While watching this weekend, I began wondering if watching runs with handling mistakes is something I want to do. With the talented handlers, I will try to visualize what they do (as it applies to me and my dog) and then maybe incorporate their good techniques. On the other hand, watching handling mistakes may also begin to creep into my handling (unconsciously).

 

What do others think? What value do you place on watching good runs vs. less-than-stellar attempts? And do you think that they influence you - or not?

 

Jovi

[red russel]

sheep dog related... i watch video of quality runs to learn how to improve. I watch video of my own runs to learn my weaknesses and mistakes. Watching my own runs is also helping me learn how to run my dog.

 

During a trial I watch runs more for what the sheep are doing than what the other handlers are doing. Their dogs are different than mine so it only makes sense they will handle different. I'm looking for draws, trouble spots, lines on the drive, how much pressure the sheep will take at the shed and pen... dog pressure vs. people pressure. This, of course, can change with the time of day, temperature, etc... I will watch how top handlers manage particularly challenging spots on a course. Have learned a lot that way. Has influenced how I will run my dog. Getting worse from watching others who are struggling? I don't think so... As Albert said, we are just learning what didn't work.

 

dave

 

Sorry! didn't pay attention to the fact this was in agility, flyball, etc.

[arf2184]

l don't think it hurts to watch other peoples runs and figure out what you think they could have done better. Some mistakes are obvious. Some things may look like mistakes, but may have been the best thing for that particular team. You can't really say if doing things another way would have truly been better because you don't know each dog and handlers strengths and weaknesses. They may have had a good reason for doing what they did, even if it slowed them down a bit.

 

I think watching your own runs helps much more than watching other people though. Some mistakes you know what you did wrong immediately after you did it. Others are more subtle and are more easily spotted on video where you can see both dog and handler (hopefully) clearly.

 

I've spotted a lot of my own mistakes in our videos. They also allow me to more closely see where Meg's focus was. Watching one of our runs, I noticed in the video that she looked over at another dog several times during her run before finally leaving the ring to go say hi. I hadn't seen that at all while running. She was clearly thinking about going to see that dog from early on and then finally decided that she'd rather go say hi than do weaves. Now I try to watch where she's looking a bit more closely (easier said than done while trying to run and focus on the course) so I can try to bring her focus back sooner (or at least keep her in the ring). She is improving a lot!

[mickif]

IMO, videos are your best friend... all of them, the good, bad and the ugly. Awesome learning tool, being able to recognize what works, what doesn't, what might work well for one team but not another, etc. I have learned much about my handling, what my dog(s) need as far as cues... when and where they need them, by videoing our practice sessions and trials.

 

Regarding other handlers mistakes creeping in to your handling, I doubt it, and probably you already are doing some of them anyway .

[mum24dog]

Sorry! didn't pay attention to the fact this was in agility, flyball, etc.

 

Doesn't matter. It's the same principle.

[alligande]

I don't see how watching video, or other handlers at trials can hurt, I think you are always able to learn.. I do have caveat though video can be dangerous when you don't have a clue what you are looking at, a friend taught her dog how to do a serpentine by watching a YouTube video when she had not the faintest idea of anything about agility, let's just say the result was interesting.

[Jumpin Boots]

I don't see how watching video, or other handlers at trials can hurt, I think you are always able to learn.. I do have caveat though video can be dangerous when you don't have a clue what you are looking at, a friend taught her dog how to do a serpentine by watching a YouTube video when she had not the faintest idea of anything about agility, let's just say the result was interesting.

I know someone whom taught their dog to weave from youtube, but apparently never caught on about the entrance pole, so her dog would hit the weaves from the nearest side she was on. She taught nice drive and movement through the poles but had a horrible time getting the dog to understand the entrance.

 

Where I have seen people get in trouble with videos is when they watch more advanced handler's or trainers and try to change their handling of a course or exercise to match, without taking into account how they run, how their dog runs, whether they and their dog have the right foundation. I often notice the same thing with novice walkthroughs. Once a few people start walking then beginners will fall in line like little ducks and walk the course the same way, which isn't always right for them. I think this goes back to lack of understanding course analysis, the mechanics of how they and their dog run and probably trial nerves as well.

[Root Beer]

Watching my own videos has been incredibly helpful to me. I even have my instructor watch them because she will usually pick up on things that I need to work on that I miss.

 

I don't tend to watch videos of others (for any reason other than enjoyment and then - I'll admit - I tend to watch the dog more than the handler!), unless there is something specific that someone wants me to see about it. I would probably benefit from doing so, but it's not something I've been in the practice of doing.

[alligande]

I often notice the same thing with novice walkthroughs. Once a few people start walking then beginners will fall in line like little ducks and walk the course the same way, which isn't always right for them. I think this goes back to lack of understanding course analysis, the mechanics of how they and their dog run and probably trial nerves as well.

Thats a whole other issue. I have noticed that since I first started out.... and the more I do the more I notice the issue...

 

I have been taking a Daisy Peel course that is based on Linda Meckelbergs exercises she did for CleanRun and I have learned so much from the videos, I find the CRCDs very hard to follow and the explanation like a very hard foreign language, yet the motion based handling makes so much sense I wanted to understand it better. Watching Daisy do the exercise and read Linda's comments about it, then out it into practice has been hugely beneficial.

[Grizel]

I am very new to agility. Just recently, I have stopped obsessing about the course map and started watching other people run. It has been very enlightening. In addition to learning some things from watching more advanced people, I have also learned a lot about my own mistakes from watching other people do the same thing.

[PSmitty]

Well, first of all EVERYONE, even the top handlers make mistakes. And just like the handlers themselves learn from their mistakes, you could, too, by watching. I think one can learn a lot by seeing mistakes. You can see what went wrong, why, and think how you could do it differently. Is it as much fun to watch as the stellar runs? No, but I think watching the good and the bad could both be helpful in their own ways.

[mum24dog]

Well, first of all EVERYONE, even the top handlers make mistakes. And just like the handlers themselves learn from their mistakes, you could, too, by watching. I think one can learn a lot by seeing mistakes. You can see what went wrong, why, and think how you could do it differently. Is it as much fun to watch as the stellar runs? No, but I think watching the good and the bad could both be helpful in their own ways.

 

I totally agree.

[dogrsqr]

I don't tend to watch videos other than my own. I think it's not always easy to see the whole picture in a 2D video. I think watching live runs is much more helpful.

 

 

I also agree that you can't really know what's bad handling since what you have trained your dog to do may be very different than what others have taught their dogs to do.

 

 

In the past I have found myself doing what others do and found that it doesn't work for us. I've since been retrained to do what my dog needs me to do.

 

 

Gina and Abbey

[mum24dog]

I don't tend to watch videos other than my own. I think it's not always easy to see the whole picture in a 2D video. I think watching live runs is much more helpful.

 

But you can miss such a lot watching a live run - the slight drop of a shoulder, twitch of a hand, tiny shift of foot position ......... You see what happened but you don't always know why and there's no replay to check.

 

Watch both - live and filmed.

[gcv-border]

I thank everyone for their thoughts. One thing that these comments reminded me - I should watch myself on video much, much more than I do -- but first, I need to video myself more. Whenever I watch one of the rare videos of one of my runs, I am always amazed at how much slower it happens than what I was experiencing at the time.

 

In our agility class, we have a wide variety of dogs - from a Pom, to a Flat Coat, a Boxer, a 12 year old BC mix that is still energetic, etc. When we review a course, our instructor will point out various handling strategies based on your dog's speed, your speed, their handling quirks, etc. and explain the reasoning behind it. I appreciate this approach as it has given me a much better understanding of the different ways to run a course than if I only worried about how to run my dog. So when I watch videos of other teams' runs, I don't expect everyone to handle the same and feel that I can often recognize why.

 

I think that one thing that I need to learn - either from watching videos or live runs of dogs that are similar to mine, but have better handlers - is that I have more time than I think I do and I am still learning what my path should be so I am in the correct position for directing my dog.

 

Jovi

[speckle-legged dog]

I am such a newby to agility that anyone's runs can help. I like videos. I tend to watch a lot of them in the weeks before a trial. If someone has a completely different dog than I do, I can see what works for them and remember why it wouldn't work for Layla. We get that in class too, except the two BCs in our class tend to make exactly the same mistakes in the same part of courses (which I find interesting).

 

I have become Facebook friends with a number of agility folks since I started going to trials, and that leads to a good supply of videos of people a lot farther along than me, along with the teams that they like to watch for improving themselves also. I love watching whether it's the good, the bad, the ugly or just the cute.

[PSmitty]

I thank everyone for their thoughts. One thing that these comments reminded me - I should watch myself on video much, much more than I do -- but first, I need to video myself more. Whenever I watch one of the rare videos of one of my runs, I am always amazed at how much slower it happens than what I was experiencing at the time.

 

I think this is key. When I started out, I had a big phobia about being filmed. Because of that, I have very few videos of Alex coming up, and I regret it now. First of all, just for the memories aspect of it, but also I've realized what a good training tool it can be to go back and watch. Now that I regularly have someone film us, it's good to go back and see what when wrong, what went right, what I might have tried instead, etc.

 

And a big plus...lots of time when I think a run was absolutely $h!tty, I re-watch and realize 9 times out of 10, that it wasn't as bad as I thought, and I can find something to be happy about. And that's important.

[Kelleybean]

I see it kinda like a football team watching the playback after the game. You are able to see your mistakes (or shining moments) and learn from them. I always video my trial runs, and then send them to my trainer (and Mom ). My trainer will then set up our lesson based on what areas I had problems with. I'm always shocked at how slowly I run!

[TrulyReady]

I'm sure my runs at the Southeast Regionals fell into the "less-then-steller attempts" catagory!

 

With that said I don't watch much of other peoples videos unless it is specifically a teaching/training video. But I do LOVE to watch other people run at trials, both good and bad. I think you can learn from bad handlers just as much as you can a good one. I can look at other peoples late front crosses, or a front that would have been a better rear or blind and keep it as a mental note for making my plans later on other courses. I think I learn just as much from watchin a handler make a bad plan as I do watching a world team member execute a perfect run. Unfortunatly my run's don't always go perfectly and never look like a world team type run like I invision. Seeing other people make mistakes similar to my own makes me more aware of the results my handling (or lack of) have on my dogs perfomance.

The one thing I can't stand to see is people getting angry or frustrated at thier dogs poor performance due to the handlers lack of training or handling. As long as a team is out having fun, mistakes or not, I enjoy watching them!

[mum24dog]

And a big plus...lots of time when I think a run was absolutely $h!tty, I re-watch and realize 9 times out of 10, that it wasn't as bad as I thought, and I can find something to be happy about. And that's important.

 

I'm the same. I don't usually look quite as bad as I thought I was.

[PSmitty]

I'm sure my runs at the Southeast Regionals fell into the "less-then-steller attempts" catagory!

 

Not true!