Thunderstorms resulting in household chaos

[Enyen]

This issue was somewhat discussed years ago on these forums ("My BC Has Very Different Reaction to Thunder - Not Thunder Phobia), but since that solution doesn't apply in my case and I hoped for more visability, I started a new thread with hope that you can help.

 

Allow me to introduce you to Jack. He's now 6 yrs. old, is a purebred BC, and is generally a great dog. We live outside the city, and Jack stays mostly inside, but since I am into fitness he gets plenty of exercise with me. He also gets lots of mental stimulation. Among his quirks, however, are his extreme reactions to loud noises, mainly fireworks, gunshots and thunder. I have to admit that his reactions have caused great stress in my family. We have endlessly argued about it, discussed it, discussed it with our vet, made various sleeping arrangements, and lost sleep due to these behaviors. Believe me, I want solutions to this problem, but there doesn't seem to be any other than what we're finally doing now. I welcome any ideas.

 

Thunderstorms are the worst time at my house. Jack RUNS endlessly back-and-forth (sometimes spinning), stopping briefly to stare out a window and bark. Well, bark is a kind word to use: he really SCREECHES. It is almost impossible to describe the sound. It is so loud and high-pitched and scary, almost like some animal being tortured (and maybe he is). It is painful to hear, and makes sleep impossible even if he's at the other end of the house in a closet or bathroom (our current solution, which is only effective if I keep my ears plugged).

 

Drugs from the vet? No help. We've tried many. Thundershirt? We tried, no help. Crate? No. Trying to calm him down? Nope. If I were so inhumane as to try beating him, he would immediately continue after the beating. He would only stop when he died. It's that severe. During a storm, what Jack wants most is to go outside in the back yard, RUN and BARK. I've finally come to realize that it's NOT FEAR!

 

I really don't think it's fear that causes this. It took me five years to figure it out. Sure, some stress is involved somehow, and I really hope that can be dealt with. But the issue, it seems, is that he wants to HERD the thunder. He wants to work. His reactions are due to his inability to do that. How do I know this? A strong clue was when I noticed him WAGGING HIS TAIL when looking out the window during a storm--in the middle of all that frantic behavior I've described.

 

Keep in mind that I spend a lot of time with Jack, and I am certain that regardless of the amount of stimulation I give him he will still do this. I've searched far and wide for identical scenarios, but with the exception of the thread made here a few years ago (which was slightly similar to my case) I've found little. I hope someone can share a suggestion or an idea reagrding where I might turn now.

 

Thanks,

 

Enyen

[waffles]

I am sure others will respond with lengthy wonderful answers but his response of running back and forth and barking is a very common reaction for a dog who is fearful of thunder or possibly just over stimulated by it (have you tried just putting him on a leash, will he take food, does he know a good down/stay or place command?). I have never heard of a collie wanting to 'herd' a noise and doubt that is the reason for his behavior. I have never seen your dog though and do not want to discredit your feelings but from what you have written, your dog has a very normal fearful reaction to thunder. You are right that no amount of exercise or stimulation will help. My dog is afraid of fireworks, so much so he went over 16 hours without peeing because he was so afraid to go outside. Many dogs chew walls, jump threw windows, pace, run away, bark/scream, etc. It is all from stress caused by fear.

 

For my dog, we used the thundershirt along with L-Theanine (although Melatonin is supposed to have a supposed 80% 'success' rate with noise phobic dogs) and letting him hide as worked for us. Have you tried anything like Theanine or Melatonin to help take the edge off? I feel for you and your dog, since I know how heartbreaking noise phobias can be. You will get great responses from others on this board who have gone through the same!

 

Edit: Wanted to add that dogs wag their tails for reasons other than being happy. My dog wags his tail when he is excited yet somewhat fearful meeting a new 'crazy' dog. Most people would think he was happy but he is stressed. Also, any way you can get a video so we can see his reaction, that way people can get a better idea of what might be going on (maybe it isn't fear, maybe it is, hard to tell without seeing).

[Gideon's girl]

If it's a low or slow wag, it's a stress or fear reaction. I don't have much to offer except I agree with Waffles. Try leashing to interrupt the behavior, work on a good down stay, and sometimes melatonin works wonders.

[Howling Farmer]

Oh, you have my sympathies. That sounds really, really frustrating.

 

I have a 9-month-old Border Collie who has a similar reaction to his shadow. Well, maybe sort of similar. At first he seemed to be afraid of it, and was acting fear aggressive. He went crazy when he saw the shadow. Barking and running after it. Now, as he gets older, sometimes he seems to be trying to herd it. It is incredibly frustrating. And I think overstimulation is at play here, so I'm just going to throw a couple of things out that seem to have at least lowered the intensity of the issue, giving us an "in" so that we can work on it.

 

Throwing food on the shadow. Really, really high value treats, like raw chicken. We threw it into the grass, so he had to use his nose to find it, but maybe you don't wan't to be outside, at first, since the thunder will be more intense. This wasn't a "cure all," but it definitely lowered the intensity of the reaction, so that we were able to start trying other things. Maybe try throwing food on the ground when the thunder starts?? Better yet, before it's even really started? Maybe only do this for a minute or two, then put him in the bathroom (maybe he needs earplugs?? I had a dog I used to fly with and she hated the engine noise. Putting cotton in her ears seemed to help a bit.) Then slowly, slowly, as, hopefully, the intensity of his reaction subsides (it might only subside for a few seconds at first), increase the time you are throwing food.

 

Karen Overall's relaxation protocol. If you google it, you can find it on the internet. It is a 15-day protocol where the dog basically learns how to relax in increasingly stimulating/stressful situations. Start first just in the house, with no thunder, and work up to more stressful situations, but still no thunder. After you've been through the entire protocol, or a modified version, several times, then you could try doing Day 1, the easiest day, when a storm started. The key is to really get your dog used to the protocol before trying it during the thunder. We've been really working on the protocol with Tucker, and it seems to be really helping. The other evening we were downtown. We live in the country, so being downtown is very stimulating and stressful for him. And I'd completely forgotten to consider that the streetlights would be casting shadows. Oops. Instantly way over threshold. Well, I found a spot in front of the library and started doing the protocol He instantly lay down and went into "relaxed" mode. Again, not a cure all, but it might help just take the edge off so that he can at least start learning how to be relaxed during the thunder.

 

Good luck!

 

Leslie

[nancy]

Our Fergie (RIP, April 2011) was a basket case well before thunder started. Low pressure did her in. She was fine until - when she was almost a year old, Hurricane Fran came right over us. From then on, she was a better predictor than the best local weatherman.

 

Generic benedryl was all that did any good. As soon as she showed that a low pressure area was coming, she got a pill. And another every 4-6 hours. That really helped.

 

But that was why, once England started allowing dog in without a 6-month quarantine, we didn't consider taking her with us in the spring. Although she'd have loved hiking in Yorkshire, the pressure and the noise in the hold on the flight over would not have been wise.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Nan used to freak out so bad that she would run thru the house and try to escape, crating, drugs etc didnt help ....but one day we were herding and the thunder came in, her eyes got all buggy so I sssshhed her and let her work the sheep fast and furious.....flanking etc....at each thunder she would flinch and run faster....so needless to say during trial runs where there is thunder or gunfire, her runs are fast and furious but it works. In the house, I started to clicker train in the house during thuder and it works now.....she runs to me for a treat when shots or thunder happen now....it took a while but we worked thru it....

[wildo]

Generic benedryl was all that did any good. As soon as she showed that a low pressure area was coming, she got a pill. And another every 4-6 hours. That really helped.

 

Kind of off topic, but benadryl? I thought that was just an antihistamine, an allergy medication. It has an affect on nervousness too?

[waffles]

Kind of off topic, but benadryl? I thought that was just an antihistamine, an allergy medication. It has an affect on nervousness too?

Benadryl is commonly used to calm dog anxiety. A lot of people say it works and a lot say it doesn't. A side effect of benadryl is drowsiness so for many dogs it calms them down or makes then sleepy enough to take the edge off. Many vets suggest it and much information can be found on the internet about the use of it for dog anxiety.

[bcnewe2]

I'm with Diane, if he is wanting to work during thunder then that is what I would do.

I have 2 dogs that are thunderphobic. One just wants to hide and can't really work during a storm but the other will settle down and work (ok so not his best work) and that is what gets him through the worst. If that's not possible then he sits next to me and as long as he's touching one of his people he's ok.

 

What drugs have you tried. Xanax does wonders for the dogs round here, but I've had a hard time convincing some vets that it's warranted. There is another drug I use for my senior dog if I think she's feeling stressed as she has stress related seizures, it's amiltriptiline (I'm sure I'm not spelling that correctly, it you want more info on it, I can look it up) it basically puts her off in the clouds but she is stress free at that time.

 

There is nothing worse than a thunderphobic dog. I am blessed that the old dog that has stress related seizures is not thunderphobic. I don't think we'd make it with her if that were the case.

 

Good luck and I hope you find a solution.

[urge to herd]

Benadryl is commonly used to calm dog anxiety. A lot of people say it works and a lot say it doesn't. A side effect of benadryl is drowsiness so for many dogs it calms them down or makes then sleepy enough to take the edge off. Many vets suggest it and much information can be found on the internet about the use of it for dog anxiety.

 

Benedryl, diphenhydramine is the generic name, is a staple in our medicine cabinet. I use it for occasional insomnia. Shoshone got it for her allergies, and the two times she had vestibular disorder, it sedated her enough to allow her to sleep peacefully, but get up and around when she wanted to.

 

My human dr. has told me it's the best night's sleep you can find, and I find that to be true. As it's an over the counter med, I always have it in the house.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[juliepoudrier]

Re: benadryl. if I take two, I can sleep through anything. That said, it doesn't help any of my dogs who react badly to thunder. I've used melatonin with limited success, and also valerian root capsules, which do seem to help the dogs who are less reactive (but still reactive). I wish more vets would be willing to try Xanax and the like, but because they can be abused by humans, it's going to be a difficult row to hoe to get most vets to consider prescribing it.

 

Don't get hung up on the phobia = fear part. Your dog may not be outwardly manifesting fear as you would expect fear to look, but he's clearly reactive to the noise.

 

I also don't think dogs "herd" noise. Only you can really judge his behavior, but I agree with others who say that you could try to interrupt the behavior. What happens if he goes in a crate? What if the crate is completely covered (dark) and the noise of the thunder is drowned out (mostly) by white noise. I happen to have a very loud floor fan and one happy discovery this past summer was they the noise it made delayed the onset of my dogs' reactions to thunder. In other words, they tended not to hear the thunder until it was right on top of us, which meant that their reactiveness didn't last as long.

 

Anyway, even though your dog doesn't react in the more typical fashion of most thunderphobic dogs, I would think that the interventions used for any reactive behavior to thunder would also apply.

 

J.

[rushdoggie]

You say you tried drugs, but what kind did you try? I find many vets offer inappropriate sedating drugs when what the dog needs is an antianxiety med, like Xanax. With a good dose in their system you can work on alternative behaviors.

 

I feel your pain, I lived with a severely thunderphobic dog for many years. Somewhere on this forum I wrote up how once we got her on the right drugs we were able to counter condition her to a more calm behavior which helped immensely.

[Tommy Coyote]

My old Bandit was really bad. He would try and climb me. If we were in bed he would try and climb on my head. He was a big dog and I couldn't get him in a crate. He would set his front feet and that was that. I finally asked the vet to just give me enough Xanax to just put him to sleep for a while. Just completely knock him out.

 

The funny thing was that if he was outside, running free, he didn't even seem to pay any attention to the thunder or rain. Too busy doing other stuff.

 

Turned out that 1 miligram of Xanax did the trick.

 

Don't use Ace as that stuff is awful and doesn't work anyway.

 

Kep - who finally died in a thunder storm from a heart attack - would jump the back fence and then just take off. He never went very far so I would just brave the elements and go get him. Once he was not confined he seemed OK. And he was OK in his crate.

 

Tommy barks and then starts to dig. She is awful. But she is OK in her covered crate.

 

Both Zeke and Tommy prefer being in the airline crate versus the wire crates. They feel safer.

[Eileen Stein]

If you haven't tried Melatonin, try it. Get it OTC at the supermarket or drugstore. Give him one 3 mg tablet, a little in advance of the storm if you can, or once the storm is there if you have no advance warning. Just try it. If it doesn't help, it doesn't help. But it's worked better for me than the heavy hitters like Xanax or Prozac. (I'm assuming you're in the US; if you're in the UK, I don't think you'll be able to purchase Melatonin.)

 

I've had a number of dogs with thunder issues. I don't know whether it's fear or pain -- probably the dog himself doesn't know -- and they do manifest it in various different ways. I don't believe it's a desire to herd the thunder, but working often does provide some relief. This is typical of border collies, who often will engage in some kind of work, especially work with livestock if it's available, to distract themselves or lessen their anxiety/discomfort. You can sometimes see a lesser form of this in dogs who will seek out a ball or stick when they're uncomfortable with a situation and carry it around or solicit someone to throw it.

 

I can kinda picture Jack wagging his tail at the window -- stiff and fast, probably. I would not interpret that as eagerness to herd.

[dmadrid]

I haven't watched this yet (I'm at work right now...), but I just got an email with a link to a video by Dr. Karen Overall discussing why Ace is not a good choice for thunderstorm and noise phobias.

I think well of her, generally, so I'm guessing this is probably worth a watch and a think.

 

Best,

Danielle

[Gideon's girl]

My experience with Ace is that if you want a dopey dog when you don't need it i.e. it's quiet and nothing is going on, then it works great. However, if anything is happening that might stimulate the dog, you end up with a very fearful dog because they feel out of control dopey, definitely not calm. One of my dogs did major damage at my vet when they Aced him, because of excessive barking, during an overnight stay. He ate his way out of a run, through a door, tore open several bags of feed, and peed everywhere. Totally out of character for that dog.

[Enyen]

Many thanks for the replies so far. A few things to add in response to your comments and questions:

 

First, trying to distract him is a waste of time, and we've spent plenty of time trying. Leashing him does no good, as he's so out of control he will not be obedient for anyone or anything. He might take a few seconds to gobble a bowl of food but that's it. Crating him, or confining him in any other way, makes it worse. He wants to MOVE, to RUN and spin and SCREAM (a good word for some of the sounds he makes). Again, he wants to be outside more than anything. Out there he can run at top speed from one end of the yard to the other, and I mean FAST. Even if we risked him being struck by lightning, he makes so much noise out there that neighbors would likely complain and we still wouldn't be able to sleep.

 

I can't actually remember all the drugs we've tried over the years, but I know we tried Ace in different doses over and over hoping it would finally work. Valium didn't work either, and I think we tried some Benedryl. We haven't tried Melatonin or Xanax but I'm willing to try them.

[Tommy Coyote]

I had good luck with xanax with all my dogs. But you have to have a prescription for it.

 

I am going to try the melatonin. That's cheap and easy to get here.

 

Thanks for the tip.

[bcnewe2]

I've found that Melatonin or Xanax is about the same. Since I've been controlling their situations, by meds or placement I can honestly say that over the years (Mick is 10ish and Dew is 6ish) they have gotten better. Dew has actually gotten worse about other sounds but her reaction is about the same for all sounds that bother her. Drugs or basement she will place herself down stairs (under the stairs) if anything upsets her.

 

So I think it stands for finding what works for you and doing it everytime.

 

You say he is uncontrollable on lead, what do you mean? Does he chew the leash or bite you. Still scream on it? And you say he'd bother the neighbors if he was out to run and scream...must be really loud to be heard over the thunder. He won't play ball or frisbee if you offer?

 

I have also found if I turn a tv on really loud, a loud fan and turn all the lights on in the house it's less scary.

[rushdoggie]

In your situation, where the behavior is so extreme that it is causing household disharmony, I would maybe consider a trip to the veterinary behaviorist. It would cost you some money but you might get some help to calm him down enough you can teach him something else. I feel for you.

[Enyen]

You say he is uncontrollable on lead, what do you mean? Does he chew the leash or bite you. Still scream on it? And you say he'd bother the neighbors if he was out to run and scream...must be really loud to be heard over the thunder. He won't play ball or frisbee if you offer?

 

He will pull on the lead with all his might and scream and bark. Again, he's out of control. He's entirely focused on the storm. No playing. And yes, his screaming can be heard from far away even during a storm.

[juliepoudrier]

It really does sound as if you should probably consult with a board certified vet behaviorist. Given that you've already tried a bunch of things, I think it would be money and time well spent as you'd probably be set pretty quickly onto a path of getting control of this (not that the fix will be quick or easy, but rather that the sooner you get professional help, the sooner you may make some difference for your dog, and you).

 

J.