Root Beer Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Today Tessa went to her first ever Agility trial. Honestly, it was more for me than for her. I have been wanting to get back to trialing and I really felt the need to take this one important step in moving forward. While not technically trained to competition level, Tessa was more than ready to go get her feet wet and get a start. Could have done CPE with Dean, but I wanted to go with Tessa, so I put her in NADAC. She hasn't worked much on a full height tire yet (it is almost always set a height lower in our courses in class because of AKC) and her teeter isn't quite finished. I am set on starting her in Level 3 in CPE, so NADAC it was if I wanted to go now. I am SO glad we didn't wait!! Tessa rose to the occasion beautifully. I had no real Agility expectations. She had never run in a ring with a strange judge, strange bar setters, or strange leash runner. She had never set foot on a slatless A-Frame or Dogwalk. And hoops - well, we train with one at home sometimes, but there had never been one in a course. Finally, she had not been through a new tunnel in a strange place before, and while she is getting more comfortable with it, the tunnel has been her least favorite piece of equipment. You wouldn't have known any of that! Her attitude in the ring was incredible. Confident, ready to run, focused, and completely unconcerned about anyone else!! She literally came within seconds of qualifying three times!! In NADAC where the times are super, tight, especially in Jumpers!!! We did one Regular run, two Jumpers, and one Weavers. I took some chances in the Weavers run at the end, and it was actually our best run (I have no video of that one). We really found the chemistry that had been fleeting, but not quite there, all day long! The best run that I have a video of is her second Jumpers run: I ran way too close to her. She needs more space (we played with that on the Weavers run). I pushed her right past that one jump that she missed. I still have so much to learn about her running style, which is really still developing. I also simply must learn to execute a rear cross properly because she is soon going to be way too fast for me to manage the fronts!!! I am going to try other venues with her, but I think NADAC might be a perfect fit. Once we build the speed and the distance, I can see her really enjoying these types of courses. And I enjoyed NADAC in a way I never have before with her. It was a perfect Agility day!! And it is so good to be back at it again!! I'm in a really different, but good place now. Here I have a dog that I can really focus on Agility handling skills with. She's not freaking out over noise (there is an airport near this site and there were planes going over all day, some very loudly. She couldn't care less), she doesn't care who is watching her, and she is just ready and willing to play, play, and play the game!! It's exciting, but a little daunting, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 That is awesome. She looks like she enjoyed it as well. Congrats on your success with her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Congratulations! It looks like the two of you were having lots of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufftie Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 nice front cross! i always have a hell of a time with them. glad you enjoyed nadac. you know, nadac, cpe, usdaa-it's ALL good if you and your dog are having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 nice front cross! i always have a hell of a time with them. glad you enjoyed nadac. you know, nadac, cpe, usdaa-it's ALL good if you and your dog are having fun. And that was definitely the best part - the amount of fun we both had, especially her!! It's funny because every other dog I've had has required some work to handle the trial environment. Maddie was probably the easiest thus far, but even she had to get the hang of running in strange places on different equipment with ring crew sitting around, etc. But Tessa just glories in it. I've never seen anything quite like it. And it's the strangest thing because many individuals still make her highly nervous. It's like she really understands that when we are in the ring, nobody is going to meddle with her. Our first run was in Regular and the judge - a man for that run - was parked right by the dogwalk. He wasn't crowding it or anything, but he was definitely close to it. I didn't think she would bail or anything, but I did think she might hesitate. Didn't bat an eyelash! And that was the run where a man came up to hand me the leash and she was like "whatever". She definitely knew exactly what we were there to do and she wasn't worried about anything. And that aspect was probably ten times more fun for me than the actual Agility itself, which, of course, was highly enjoyable!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufftie Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 are you going to the nadac show at penn state in jan.? highly recommend it. great arena, great trial, great judge, fun people. i remember nova's first trial- first run was fullhouse, which is a game of just running wild around the course gathering points. we started out great. several jumps, up the a-frame, then a turn back up the a-frame, towards the "crowd". she saw all those people sitting there, staring at her and just froze right there on top of the frame! that was the end of that run. luckily we got over that very quickly and she enjoys herself immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogs & Dogs Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm actually surprised that the jumpers run you posted wasn't a Q. She wasn't moving too slowly! As for crowding the obstacles, I've seen one or two NADAC judges crowd contact equipment. At the last trial I attended, the judge was standing about 1' from the A-frame, even while the novice dogs were taking it. Crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 are you going to the nadac show at penn state in jan.? highly recommend it. great arena, great trial, great judge, fun people. Not this year, but I will have to look at that for the future. i remember nova's first trial- first run was fullhouse, which is a game of just running wild around the course gathering points. we started out great. several jumps, up the a-frame, then a turn back up the a-frame, towards the "crowd". she saw all those people sitting there, staring at her and just froze right there on top of the frame! that was the end of that run. luckily we got over that very quickly and she enjoys herself immensely. I love Fullhouse!! Dean can be like that. He can be running the perfect course, suddenly see the people and his brain explodes on him. He's getting better about it gradually. It is very interesting because in Rally he can process the presence of people watching him, but in Agility and Freestyle he struggles with that. I'm actually considering VALOR for Dean, although if I do settle on NADAC as Tessa's primary venue, he will most certainly be welcome to come along to trials at certain locations, as he did with Maddie in CPE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm actually surprised that the jumpers run you posted wasn't a Q. She wasn't moving too slowly! No, she wasn't, although she was matching her pace to mine. She can run much, much faster than that! But she really hasn't learned that she is really supposed to do that yet. That is definitely one of the things that I'm coming away from this trial set to work on. I think she was 3 seconds over on that run. It was super close. Had I not made that one bobble in the corner, we would have had it. My laundry list of things I plan to work on with Tessa this winter: Rear Crosses Sending out ahead Rear Crosses Solidify Independent Weave Pole Performance Rear Crosses Distance Discriminations (even though there were none in this trial, I know they are super common in NADAC) Oh, and Rear Crosses As for crowding the obstacles, I've seen one or two NADAC judges crowd contact equipment. At the last trial I attended, the judge was standing about 1' from the A-frame, even while the novice dogs were taking it. Crazy! In Regular, the judge was standing pretty close to the dogwalk. I was glad that Tessa didn't care - I was concerned about that beforehand. On our last run (Weavers), I took all of the chances that I'd been hesitant to try all day long. I did a blind cross and it was really cool! And I stayed pretty far away from the tunnels and hoops, and she understood to run the line with me farther away. Best of all, she actually did one set of six weaves completely independently, and it was an off side entry!! That one actually would have been a Q time-wise, but on the second set of poles, she missed the entry and I elected to go on rather than try to fix it, which I think was a good decision. It was actually the next set that she did all on her own. She is still figuring a lot of this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 She looks likes she's having lots of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Oh, also - I love NQ placements!!! :D Good stuff for the scrapbook!! Tessa: What, exactly, am I supposed to do with these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Looking good. Tessa has a nice, graceful jumping style. on the second set of poles, she missed the entry and I elected to go on rather than try to fix it, which I think was a good decision. It was actually the next set that she did all on her own. . Yes. I think that when starting out trialing, one can overlook mistakes in order to keep the enthusiasm. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 My laundry list of things I plan to work on with Tessa this winter: Rear Crosses Sending out ahead Rear Crosses Solidify Independent Weave Pole Performance Rear Crosses Distance Discriminations (even though there were none in this trial, I know they are super common in NADAC) Oh, and Rear Crosses Be careful with the rear crosses as you'll run the risk of slowing her down if she isn't confident enough to power on ahead independently. They're good to be able to do but don't assume that if she gains speed she will be too fast for you to do a front cross. The more she learns to do on her own the more time you will have to get in position. Believe me, I'm the slowest handler in the world but it's all in the mind and I know that if I focus on the point I need to be I can usually do it. At the second front cross in your video I'd be aiming to send her on round all 3 jumps on her own and one option would be to pick her up with a front cross after the 3rd jump not before. That gives more time to get in position. Sometime a front cross is the most effective move, sometimes a rear. Don't over use either because of what you think you can or can't do. And I would add directional control at a distance to your list if you think she is eventually likely to get far ahead of you. You're definitely right to work on unsticking her from you. It would be good if you could get some film of her working faster and more independently as you say she did, even if she makes more mistakes, as that would give more of an idea what she is likely to be capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Be careful with the rear crosses as you'll run the risk of slowing her down if she isn't confident enough to power on ahead independently. There are definitely times when front, or even blind, crosses are best. But I need to be able to execute a rear cross properly. There are simply times when they are going to be necessary and it is high time that I know how to do them proficiently. I am better with them with Dean, who will power ahead independently, but even with him I feel like I'm taking a gamble every time I try one. I have not mastered it as a handling skill, even though he can read them very well when I actually do get them right. When Tessa gets to the point where she has the confidence to power ahead, I'd like to have the skill ready to use. They're good to be able to do but don't assume that if she gains speed she will be too fast for you to do a front cross. The more she learns to do on her own the more time you will have to get in position. Believe me, I'm the slowest handler in the world but it's all in the mind and I know that if I focus on the point I need to be I can usually do it. True, that will be more the case. At the second front cross in your video I'd be aiming to send her on round all 3 jumps on her own and one option would be to pick her up with a front cross after the 3rd jump not before. That gives more time to get in position. True, had she been ready to go out on her own in that sequence, I would have had time to do that. And that is certainly something to work toward, as well. Sometime a front cross is the most effective move, sometimes a rear. Don't over use either because of what you think you can or can't do. Absolutely - I'd certainly hope not to overuse them. But it's still a skill I want to be proficient at. It's so much on my mind because it has been a sticking point for me. It's funny because a lot of people really struggle with blind crosses and I haven't found them to be a problem at all. They make intuitive sense to me, so if I can get where I need to be when I need to be there, the actual blind cross is simple. But the rear - I am either too close or too far away, or something. I haven't gotten the feel for the timing. When I do time them correctly (with Dean), I understand what has happened, but, for some reason, I can't get my head around the timing, especially when we are running full speed. And it is totally a handler timing problem. It is true that Tessa needs more independent forward motion and power before I can really use them with her, but she is progressing toward that steadily. But I know right now that even if she suddenly had that tomorrow, I would not have the handling skill to use them with her, where appropriate. I want to rectify that. And I would add directional control at a distance to your list if you think she is eventually likely to get far ahead of you. You're definitely right to work on unsticking her from you. And those things do have to come first with her. Better to work the rear crosses with Dean and focus for now on "unsticking" with Tessa. You are right, too - directional control at a distance should be on there. It would be good if you could get some film of her working faster and more independently as you say she did, even if she makes more mistakes, as that would give more of an idea what she is likely to be capable of. Good idea. I'll have to try to remember to bring my camera along to class sometime, or brave the cold to set something up in my yard at some point. Granted, she hasn't totally shown what she is capable of yet, but she hasn't even come close to reaching her full potential yet, so I am very excited about where this can go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Granted, she hasn't totally shown what she is capable of yet, but she hasn't even come close to reaching her full potential yet, so I am very excited about where this can go! I know exactly where you're at - my next dog is going to be bombproof - I deserve an easier ride next time. And if it turns out to be good at anything I'm not going to hand it over to my daughter. Oh, well, I can dream. Chances are when it eventually comes to it I'll be suckered into taking on another dog with issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Looks like a great start! My only note would be to encourage you to enter her in the Skilled division for a few trials. I encourage EVERYONE to start their dogs in Skilled. Skilled & Proficient points are all combined in Novice & Open, so why not take every advantage you can when starting a young/green dog? Lower jump heights allow them to move out a bit more -- Right now she's running pretty collected and putting in a minimum of three strides between each jump. For a dog of her size, you're really shooting for two strides between the majority of obstacles, which will show that she's running in extension. Once her confidence builds on the lower jumps in a trial environment you might choose to move her to Proficient and jump 20" again, or you may find that you both enjoy the Skilled class and choose to leave her at 16". FWIW, your Jumpers run would have been a Q in Skilled -- because she likely would have been moving just a bit faster and there is a bit more time allotted for the 16" class. I started Secret in Skilled and kept her there for several trials before moving her to Proficient. Because she was stressing quite a lot in the beginning, her jump form really was not what I wanted at 20" -- Too slow, too collected. I went back down to 16" with her and was much happier. I opted to go ahead and just leave her in Skilled because I like what I see and she started to collect points in Elite (where the divisions split). I got over my "must jump high" issues and am now running two of my three dogs in Skilled. Luke is a Vet, so he gets a height break for that, but I appreciate the option to bump him down once more when his body needs it in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Looks like a great start! My only note would be to encourage you to enter her in the Skilled division for a few trials. I encourage EVERYONE to start their dogs in Skilled. Skilled & Proficient points are all combined in Novice & Open, so why not take every advantage you can when starting a young/green dog? I considered that, but I do intend to do some CPE with her, and in CPE she will jump 20. I'm not sure it is a good idea to have her jump different heights in different venues. Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know. Our next NADAC trial will be all games, so it won't matter. I do plan to consider it before the next trial that will have jumps. Especially in Jumpers, where the times are so tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I am jumping my dog at 20" in NADAC 26" in USDAA, and in class whatever random height he gets. The Height changes do not seem to effect his jumping abilities. As a side note I started my older dog in skilled, moved to proficient became a veteran dog, and this last trial he did 12" as a skilled vet and loved it, he is only 7 but jumps like a bunny. The younger one I would never attempt to run in skilled, ideally I want those 26" jumps to give me a fighting chance to be in the right place, so in NADAC we settle for 20 which can lead to some hairy moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd's Mom Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I just ran my Todd in his first NADAC trial this last weekend. He is a 19.25 inch tall boy. I jumped him at 20 inches because that's what he jumps in CPE and he jumps 22 in USDAA. We don't run AKC (can't condone giving them money) but I think they would have him jump 20 as well I didn't want him to have to adjust jumps everytime and didn't want him to start to flatten out and drop bars after getting used to the lower jump height when moving back up to the normal 20-22 inch jumps. I'm not sure what other venues you plan to use, but I've spent a lot of time teaching my dog to collect after his jumps to be prepared for sharp turns to other jumps or obstacles, so I'm not sure how much you want to squish her collection. Congrats on her doing so well! She looked like she was enjoying herself! As far as taking dogs with, I take my puppies with just for hte experience of new people and dogs walking by and being able to remain calm when it's not their turn. It's good practice for them and haven't had any issues with them because of it. They also go with during classes and hang out and at the end get to play some tunnel and wraps. My one boy is 13 months old so not a puppy puppy anymore, but still a puppy and it's still good practice and good manners for him. Besides, people always comment on how calm they are when we are ringside as opposed to their dogs and some other dogs that you see freaking out with excitement. They are excited but they learn self control that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Lower jump heights allow them to move out a bit more -- Right now she's running pretty collected and putting in a minimum of three strides between each jump. For a dog of her size, you're really shooting for two strides between the majority of obstacles, which will show that she's running in extension. I was reluctant to join in on jump height since the height she is jumping is the lower height we would use in training for a similar dog that was taking longer than most to get an extended jump, but I agree with you in principle. We see too many dogs that have been moved up to competition height before their jumping style warrants it. I'm not saying that is the case here as we only have one clip to judge on, but taken in isolation my instinctive reaction was to drop the height and work on forward drive to eliminate the hesitation before jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I didn't want him to have to adjust jumps everytime and didn't want him to start to flatten out and drop bars after getting used to the lower jump height when moving back up to the normal 20-22 inch jumps. No reason in principle why that should happen, although you know your own dog best of course. One way of making a dog think what it is doing rather than being drilled into expecting the same thing every time is to run exercises at training with jumps at different heights withing the same exercise. More often than not we train our own Medium dogs over Small height because we can't be bothered to move the jumps but it makes no difference at all in competition. I've spent a lot of time teaching my dog to collect after his jumps to be prepared for sharp turns to other jumps or obstacles, so I'm not sure how much you want to squish her collection. It doesn't look as if she is the type of dog that would have a problem. She seems to be collecting because of uncertainty, not because she's been cued where to go next. I do know what you mean though. When my daughter got her lanky collie she worked too much on speed to the exclusion of teaching him to collect. She's got away with it up to now because his speed over the ground compensates for his wide turns, but now at the top grade and competing in Champioship classes she's belatedly had to work on making him collect on cue, and it's working. She won't make that mistake again with a long jumping dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I just ran my Todd in his first NADAC trial this last weekend. He is a 19.25 inch tall boy. I jumped him at 20 inches because that's what he jumps in CPE and he jumps 22 in USDAA. We don't run AKC (can't condone giving them money) but I think they would have him jump 20 as well I didn't want him to have to adjust jumps everytime and didn't want him to start to flatten out and drop bars after getting used to the lower jump height when moving back up to the normal 20-22 inch jumps. This for us only became a problem when we got lazy and started training at 20" exclusively, before we started trailing we jumped random heights, sometimes mixed on a course, other times what ever was set, 16, 20, 26. Then we started doing a lot of NADAC and my boy is the only dog in his training group to jump 26 so we just stopped putting up the jumps. After a few months I realized he was dropping bars when there was no handler error, so we are back to random jump heights, and the problem has almost gone away, he has to think now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you have taught your dog to jump, it should not matter what the jump heights are from day to day. Luke is now 8 years old and in an effort to save his body, I never jump him above 8" at home (Kaiser's jump height). He knows how to jump, there is no reason to make him wear out his body between trials. He only jumps 16" as a Veteran, but I can't recall the last time he knocked a bar at a trial --- Not that he doesn't demolish entire courses at home when they are set at 8". lol There ARE dogs that have a problem with flattening out and knocking bars and I do feel those dogs benefit a great deal from (if not require) schooling at their highest competition height regularly --- But from the video clip shared, it really doesn't appear to be a concern for the OP's dog at this time. At this point in her training, I would be focusing on nothing more than getting her to speed up and extend, which can be achieved by lowering the jump height. If I ever find myself actually able to try USDAA with Secret, the lowest she could jump is 22". Some would reason that I ought to be jumping her at 20" in NADAC to keep it even. I say, why? Why not jump my dog at the lowest jump height available in each/any organization with which we participate? She is not a built like the dogs for whom 26" is a breeze -- so I choose to make it as easy on her body as I can. We are not in contention for making the World Team -- height really doesn't matter and I feel that jumping lower will keep her sound longer. Good lord, you should see all the back problems we are already going through at two years old.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 But from the video clip shared, it really doesn't appear to be a concern for the OP's dog at this time. At this point in her training, I would be focusing on nothing more than getting her to speed up and extend, which can be achieved by lowering the jump height. No, it's not. She's very comfortable jumping. Moreso than Dean, even. She genuinely likes it and appears to have a very clear idea of what she is supposed to do. She only knocks bars when I mess up my handling. I'll have to have someone video her at class sometime, too. Especially if we do a Jumpers kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 FWIW, "what we do at class" means nothing. Trialing is not like class for the dog. At all. Stress adds an entirely new component. I will offer Secret up as an example. Here is a video of her jumping 20" at home: In this video she is jumping a course at 22" for the first time at 15 months old (again, at home): Continued.... Because the board won't let me attach multiple media links... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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