JaderBug Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Recently, I've been sending out e-mails to a number of breeders looking for our next puppy (a German Shepherd, consequently... wish it was going to be another BC!!) and thought I would share some questions I came up with to ask the breeders: What breed or dog-related clubs or registries do you belong to? How long have you been involved with your breed? How many years have you been breeding and how many litters have you produced? What activities do you participate in with your dogs? What are your breeding goals for your dogs? Did you have any specific goals in mind for your current or next litter? What age do your pups go to their new homes? How do you determine their level of drive? Would you be able to help select what amount of drive would be appropriate for us? What do you expect from your puppy buyers? What kind of homes/jobs do your pups typically go to? What kind of socialization do you do with your puppies? Where do they live? What lines do your dogs come from? Do you have any health guarantees for your pups? What kind of health certifications do you have on the parents? Can you send me references to previous puppy buyers? What is the price you charge for your puppies? What questions can I answer for you? And also, when do you expect your next litter? I've gotten many responses so far, most of the breeders make a point to say how happy they are that I have so many questions, that they wish all their potential puppy buyers cared that much. I don't think I will have any problems finding the right breeder for what we're looking for. I posted these questions for other people to use but also looking for some input. First of all, are there any other questions that I should ask? And my other question: I've gotten several contacts for previous puppy buyers to use as references... what kind of questions should I ask them about their dogs, about the breeder? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariji Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Recently, I've been sending out e-mails to a number of breeders looking for our next puppy (a German Shepherd, consequently... wish it was going to be another BC!!) and thought I would share some questions I came up with to ask the breeders:I've gotten many responses so far, most of the breeders make a point to say how happy they are that I have so many questions, that they wish all their potential puppy buyers cared that much. I don't think I will have any problems finding the right breeder for what we're looking for. I posted these questions for other people to use but also looking for some input. First of all, are there any other questions that I should ask? And my other question: I've gotten several contacts for previous puppy buyers to use as references... what kind of questions should I ask them about their dogs, about the breeder? Thanks! Wow that's very thoughtful, i will definitely do something similar when i get my next puppy. I generally just turn up and get a feel for the breeder/dogs and pups. If one stands out i will think about it. I think i would ask previous puppy owners whether they were happy with the outcome and it was what they wanted/what the breeder suggested for them (Any issues they may have had/or not had). Also whether the breeder was help with ongoing support and they were satisfied with i suppose you could call "customer service". Would they buy from the same breeder again, if so why or why not. Something along those lines. Good luck finding the right puppy! I am at least 5 years away from getting another one. It's such an exciting time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Obviously you want to see both parents. Just make sure they are both people friendly . If a breeder tells you something along the lines " the father of this litter is a great watch dog , specically trained for attack , and wont show him to you , walk away . Obviously the dog is not people friendly and you wouldnt want any pup with those traits. Schutzhund training is alot of fun. But the dog should be able to turn off and become your everyday family dog at a drop of a hat. If any GSD breeder tells you different , they shouldnt be breeding . Look for someone that wants to bring out the best of the GSD. It is not a a blood thirty attack dog , rather a dedicated family dog who will put his life on the line for you if the situation arises. Goof luck in your search , you already have a great start asking these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Obviously you want to see both parents. Just make sure they are both people friendly . If a breeder tells you something along the lines " the father of this litter is a great watch dog , specically trained for attack , and wont show him to you , walk away . Obviously the dog is not people friendly and you wouldnt want any pup with those traits. While I agree with the second half of this comment, I wouldn't necessarily expect adult GSDs to be overly friendly to people they don't know. Civil, calm, loyal to their owner and only mildly interested in you is more of what I'd expect from an adult GSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 While I agree with the second half of this comment, I wouldn't necessarily expect adult GSDs to be overly friendly to people they don't know. Civil, calm, loyal to their owner and only mildly interested in you is more of what I'd expect from an adult GSD. If you walked near the yard or fence my GSD would be very protective of their property and me , but if I invited you in the yard , you would be like a old friend. I wouldnt have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 My husband and I have certainly been butting heads somewhat on all this GSD business... he is adamant about breeding the dog 'to pay for it'... I probably wouldn't have a problem breeding it so long as it achieved its appropriate titles in Schutzhund, but he doesn't want [me] to train it to that sport as he thinks it will be aggressive, won't be able to have friends over, won't be able to have children around it, etc. Irrational thought if it's raised and socialized properly (which it will be) and has genetics with good temperaments (i.e. not American lines!). We're looking at Czech or East German lines, preferably... with parents that work. I have gotten him to realize that a dog is more than just a color... I'm in love with the sable color (probably because they're working dogs) and he originally just wanted a black/tan saddle. [ETA: Sable is most common within working lines, the saddle colors tend to be more show-line oriented. No different than working BCs looking different, probably why I like sable is because they are working dogs] He says the sable has really grown on him, which is good enough for me I apologize for the direction of this thread- I originally meant it for asking breeders and references questions to be useful to anyone looking for any breed (including Border Collies)- had I known it would take a GSD-specific turn I would have put it in the Coffee Break section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 My husband and I have certainly been butting heads somewhat on all this GSD business... he is adamant about breeding the dog 'to pay for it'... I probably wouldn't have a problem breeding it so long as it achieved its appropriate titles in Schutzhund, but he doesn't want [me] to train it to that sport as he thinks it will be aggressive, won't be able to have friends over, won't be able to have children around it, etc. Irrational thought if it's raised and socialized properly (which it will be) and has genetics with good temperaments (i.e. not American lines!). We're looking at Czech or East German lines, preferably... with parents that work. I have gotten him to realize that a dog is more than just a color... I'm in love with the sable color (probably because they're working dogs) and he originally just wanted a black/tan saddle. He says the sable has really grown on him, which is good enough for me I apologize for the direction of this thread- I originally meant it for asking breeders and references questions to be useful to anyone looking for any breed (including Border Collies)- had I known it would take a GSD-specific turn I would have put it in the Coffee Break section My husband has been doing Schutzhund training for years , and years All are titled and breed surveyed . Schutzhund is not a aggressive sport . It's highly controlled obedience , to say the least. These dogs will be able to do their work and turn it off and be a lovable , goofy family pet. Please look further into the sport . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 My husband has been doing Schutzhund training for years , and years All are titled and breed surveyed . Schutzhund is not a aggressive sport . It's highly controlled obedience , to say the least. These dogs will be able to do their work and turn it off and be a lovable , goofy family pet. Please look further into the sport . I completely agree. There's a really great Schutzhund club near us, we went a few months ago to a meet just to watch and learn- I had a blast, absorbed a lot of information. I saw a lot of really incredible, smart, obedient dogs that LOVED their handlers, and saw a ton of control when the bite suits came out. I think DH saw aggression. I think I'll just have to learn him some more Will definitely need to convince DH that puppy must have some Sch titles before any breeding can be thought about- may have the breeder add that into the puppy contract if it's not already in it. As long as it doesn't take away too much from herding and Border Collies, my first passion... wouldn't be getting a GSD if it weren't for hubby anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 My husband has been doing Schutzhund training for years , and years All are titled and breed surveyed . Schutzhund is not a aggressive sport . It's highly controlled obedience , to say the least. These dogs will be able to do their work and turn it off and be a lovable , goofy family pet. Please look further into the sport . I forgot to mention , I do agility with some of them too Once they are Sch III , I like to train them for agility . They love it ! They are so happy when at trials and people come by to say hello , they just get sooo wiggly, its quite funny. We have a 9 year old neice who comes over and plays ball with them regularly as well. Dont be misled about this sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 I completely agree. There's a really great Schutzhund club near us, we went a few months ago to a meet just to watch and learn- I had a blast, absorbed a lot of information. I saw a lot of really incredible, smart, obedient dogs that LOVED their handlers, and saw a ton of control when the bite suits came out. I think DH saw aggression. I think I'll just have to learn him some more Will definitely need to convince DH that puppy must have some Sch titles before any breeding can be thought about- may have the breeder add that into the puppy contract if it's not already in it. As long as it doesn't take away too much from herding and Border Collies, my first passion... wouldn't be getting a GSD if it weren't for hubby anyway A good breeder knows there is no reason to breed a Schutzhund dog unless it is finished, meaning Schutzhund III . And nobody I know will breed there dog unless it has great qualities too. Both parents should to be titled. But as with any breeding , this doesnt mean your puppy is guaranteed to be top rated , but you have a better chance in knowing its temperment and ability. My husband is all about the GSD . He is a retired K9 PO . He has trained many police dogs and their handlers and has changed the training methods used here to more proven , humane methods . He can tell you he has seen better trained Sch dogs then police dogs in some counties. Did you know that Schuntzhund training also involves tracking ? There is alot of training that goes into Sch dogs . Its not all bite , bite ,bite.... If you have the chance ,try getting a BH on your dog . It's not that easy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Dunno squat about GSDs....but back to original question/post: I would ask what the breeder would do if a puppy ended up with a health issue that was genetic - do you get some of the purchase price back? Would the breeder take the dog back if you didn't want to or couldn't keep it? (actually this should be part of the "deal" with or without health issues) As for breeding your own dog....I guess I just won't go there.... diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just tell your husband that "breeding the dog to pay for it" is a terrible idea as the vet bills could end up putting you in the hole. GSDs are not exactly a rare breed and puppies from an unproven dog will have little to no market value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 As long as it doesn't take away too much from herding and Border Collies, my first passion... wouldn't be getting a GSD if it weren't for hubby anyway Well, there's no reason you can't get a BH on your BC. You'd get a few funny looks probably, but there's no reason it can't be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 We jsut had a partially trained GSD at teh rescue who went to a police officer to finish. I thought he was a great dog although it's hard when your used to border collies and someone can put their paws on your shoulder and lick your face square on. When the first K9 police evaluator showed up it proved his training. I guess we had fun written all over us.lol I thought he was a great dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just tell your husband that "breeding the dog to pay for it" is a terrible idea as the vet bills could end up putting you in the hole. GSDs are not exactly a rare breed and puppies from an unproven dog will have little to no market value. I Absolutely agree with SoloRiver . Nobody should breed , just to get there money back . Let me tell you , you probably wont even break even. Breeding is alot of work and sometimes doesnt work out like you thought it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Well, there's no reason you can't get a BH on your BC. You'd get a few funny looks probably, but there's no reason it can't be done! I will be going for the BH on two BC and a Beagle in May 2010 . Talk about funny looks ! It just takes training , no breed is prohibited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I will be going for the BH on two BC and a Beagle in May 2010 . Talk about funny looks ! It just takes training , no breed is prohibited. BC, not really impressed (they can do anything ) Beagle? very impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 BC, not really impressed (they can do anything ) Beagle? very impressed Yep , my little beagle . She was my first agility dog. She did very well for herself. She has tremendous drive ! She is a very good working dog , at only 17 lbs She has alot of agility titles and CGC , therapy dog. Her weaves are awesome and she has great running contacts ! LOL...My little girl just turned 6 years in October ! But once you get smitten by the agility bug , there is no stopping ...So when I was looking to start another dog , I got into BCs. They are and always will be my breed , but I will always have a beagle too Then there are my husbands Shepherds. That's another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just tell your husband that "breeding the dog to pay for it" is a terrible idea as the vet bills could end up putting you in the hole. GSDs are not exactly a rare breed and puppies from an unproven dog will have little to no market value. Oh I totally agree... I'm not sure what's worse... breeding for money or breeding because, well, you've got a male and/or a female, heck! Might as well breed 'em! If he badly wants to breed the GSD, I refuse to do it without reaching whatever level is the threshold for breeding. I'd much rather spay/neuter this dog... if we decide to get more involved with the breed later, we can explore another dog and different options at that time. We'll have a wonderful dog, regardless. Here's a terrier doing Schutzhund... it's really funny to watch but the little dog does a really great job! ETA: Here's a post from my blog I just did, has all the above questions but explains why they're important and what answers you should look for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Oh I totally agree... I'm not sure what's worse... breeding for money or breeding because, well, you've got a male and/or a female, heck! Might as well breed 'em! If he badly wants to breed the GSD, I refuse to do it without reaching whatever level is the threshold for breeding. I'd much rather spay/neuter this dog... if we decide to get more involved with the breed later, we can explore another dog and different options at that time. We'll have a wonderful dog, regardless. Here's a terrier doing Schutzhund... it's really funny to watch but the little dog does a really great job! That was a riot. I know he was taking his training seriously but, to see the guy running with him hanging off the arm.too funny. What is the stick for that she took from the agressor/victim, carried around and then surrendered to the judge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Mr. Murphy was not just any terrier! He was a legend! And of course his trainer is nothing to sneeze at either. If you are going to seriously look into going all the way (as in training your dog properly for the sport of SchH although it is not the only official title acknowledged by the SV - HGH (tending style herding) is another one), listen to what was already told to you. Tons of work. And not cheap either. On top of that, access to good helpers is not that easy. And without a good club you have a tough road ahead of you. But it is tons of fun. I myself, prefer mondio or ring (by the way, there are a few Borders in that too). Keep in mind, when it comes to the GSD breed they vary just as much (maybe even more) than the BC's. You have the rift between the showlines, the working lines...then you add the rift between the "real" personal protection dogs and the sport dogs and every single one of those groups and their various sub categories have different pro's and con's. A sport bred (high drive for flashy training) is the same as the worst BC you can imagine! Trust me. I know! I own two that will outwork my Borders any day!!!! And they are no slouches either! Had I not been used to my Borders I would have sent the first one back. She still drives me nuts! Your east german dogs are not as high drive for the most part. Slower maturing. Tend to be a bit more protective. They can be a bit edgy. The czech dogs are a bit of all I have mentioned before. Your showlines....most of them make great pets but are not working dogs (yes I know, titles etc....right) And all of those things are generalizations. Oh, one more, I know of quite a few people that prefer the east german dogs for SAR. You have health issues in all lines....and on and on and on..... So take your time, do your research and most of all, on top of all your questions, follow your gut. Plus, one more thing I almost forgot. Your SchH club will be a huge part of the training of your dog. It may not be a bad idea to start building a relationship with them and maybe ask about if they know of a good breeder they have had good dogs from and who they know how to work with. Sounds a bit funny, I know, but trust me, your helper can be your best friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 There are many great working showlines. But some people import dogs from Germany that the Germans cant wait to get rid of . Then they are bred here and that's what produces non working showlines. I've been around too , and have seen this first hand. But experiences with each line will produce different opinions. As for your helper , they can be your best friend , but an inexperienced helper can also be your downfall. Definately get to know the people in the club and ask questions. Get some books and read. As for BC in the sport , the handler's name , if Im not mistaken , was Vicki Bartley . Her dogs name escapes me. But this was during the 80's early 90's . She aquired Sch III on both BC. They were a force to be reckoned with. Go BC ! They can do anything !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ipsy, Vickie has Aussies and had several that did SchH back in the days. She has gone soft on us and is now doing things like disc dog, agility, dock diving.....and all very well I might add! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSY Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ipsy, Vickie has Aussies and had several that did SchH back in the days. She has gone soft on us and is now doing things like disc dog, agility, dock diving.....and all very well I might add! :D Glad to hear it ! Once you have done Schutzhund , where do you go from there ? AGILITY !!!!!! Disc and , dock diving all great fun too Did she have aussies that did Schutzhund ? My hunsband thought they were BC's . :rolleyes Hey , you should see my beagle do a bark and hold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 That would be cool! Or would it be a bay and hold? And ps, she still does have a GSD that she trains SchH with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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