Kennel Inspections

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

I'm reading with interest the thread about the basset kennel, I got a call on my cell phone while at work a couple of weeks ago. An Animal Control officer was on my property, there to do "annual kennel inspections" and she could not find my dogs. She sounded kind of puzzled. I've lived in this county for five years, always bought kennel licenses and never been inspected.

 

I told her that two were with me, and the rest were in the house. "In the HOUSE?" was her reply. I said, yes, in the house. I told her I was at work, "well, where do you work that you can have dogs with you?," answer, a vet hospital in Richmond (thirty minute commute from a rural county). I assured her the dogs, if not with me or anyone else, were in crates in the house.

 

She asked me what my schedule was and when she could come back, and long story short, she came back the next week to see my dogs, or so I thought. Turns out she wanted to see them AND where and how they lived. I freaked out. I am a really, really private person, not the best housekeeper, but not worthy of making "Clean House" either. In no way am I in any danger of making Animal Precinct Hanover County. What I was prepared to do is show her my kennel license (the document that gave the county the right to check me out and my address and cell phone number), my rabies documentation and my eight dogs. I showed her all that and she insisted on seeing my house. I said no, probably not a good move. My only reasons truly were embarrassment over sloppy housekeeping (clutter, etc) and my gut reaction to government intrusion.

 

She has to come back now, and I am willing to set up a faux kennel in my barn's tackroom, perfectly doable, and she agreed. Meantime, I have been pondering what others have to do to keep more than the general public's average dog household, and whether I was purely stupid not to just shut up and let her have her look-see. I have a call into the chief Animal Control man (on vacation) and want to at least ask him if this is a good use of county officer time, checking out kennels who go to the trouble to purchase licensing and who have no complaints against them. I can understand why, we have dog fighting, hourding, puppy mills, and just in-over-their-head rescuers here, but the day she came I showed her eight happy, healthy, well behaved, fit dogs AND their paperwork. Asking a dozen other Border Collie people at a clinic about what they lived with, and I got about half "don't buy licenses" and half "nobody checks kennels." Lucky me.

 

Thanks for the vent. Inspection is August 25, and this is making me sad and sick as an American who already feels sad for loss of privacy and freedom. I did find out that if I purchase eight separate licenses at full price, I will not be considered a kennel ($48/8 vs. $35/>20). I think that's what I'll do next year.

[Liz P]

Is there any difference in the way they regulate how the dogs must be kept for a person who buys individual licenses for each dog vs someone who buys a kennel license? IOW, can you not keep them in crates with a kennel license?

 

I am reaching the point where I need to start thinking about a kennel license since I now have 5 dogs and may add more in a year or two. Although I won't be living in VA so will have to find out what laws apply in my area.

[Journey]

I am with the half about "don't buy a license" group. It's good you set up a kennel in the barn. What does the law say about them coming into your home for "inspection"? Nope, no way, no matter, I would not allow them into the house for any reason w/o a search warrant. If all it takes is $13 to keep them away......

 

Let me ask you though - why do you buy a license for all the dogs? Is it a stringent county? Is there a limit in your area?

[sea4th]

I would not allow them into my house. I think that was the right decision on your part.

 

I applied for a kennel license earlier this year. 50.00 for the first 10 and 1.00 for every dog thereafter, compared to 10.00 per dog. At 15 dogs at the time, I was determined to get a kennel license. I never thought it would be so difficult.

 

Since a new law was passed in Ohio last year, I had a helluva time get the kennel license and so I stood for a long time in that the small office of the county auditor trying to convince the person in charge that I was not a breeder of show or hunting dogs, that I was a rescue, that there was no profit motive on my part. She did not at the beginning, nor an hour or so later at the end, quite understand what "rescue" meant. My reply to that was that rescues basically clean up after most of the kennels they issued licenses to. After several phone calls to the state offices in Columbus, she still apparently in a state of confusion, issued me the licenses. I got the name of the contact person in Columbus she spoke with to get the OK and when I left there, I called this lady and explained to her the situation. The woman at the State capital was a lot more knowledgable and said that to look for something in the mail a couple of months from then and just reply by making a notation that this was a rescue operation and not a breeding kennel.

 

The new law here I was referring to is meant to target some of the puppy mills going on in Amish country --- by not necessarily the Amish and I can understand that, but depending on the bureaucrat you deal with, everyone might be painted with the same broad brushstroke. By applying for a kennel license, you agree to inspections. Fine, but I draw the line at them entering my home. You did right refusing her.

 

I had an incident here earlier this year where I picked up two huge male labs off the side of the road on the way to work. There spent the day in my car and I called county animal control from work. We made arrangements that they would come out and get the dogs right from my kennel outside, which was not complete, it was winter, muddy as hell and the entrance gate was patched together after one of the dogs tried to rip through the chain link to get out. When I came home the next day after work, the labs were gone --- I knew because the ACO and I had been in touch throughout the day.

 

My kennel area still needs a lot of work to be done, but I'm fortunate enough that the ACO -- there is one and her assistant for this entire county, appears to be common sense. I'm lucky in that respect.

 

A few years ago in Cleveland, I was paid a visit by the county dog warden. I know exactly where that came from -- a spite move by some A-Hole whose kid I read the riot act to for mistreating a dog. Anyway, the house was a wreck. I was pulling up carpet. I'd been working a lot of OT and this was one of my rare Saturday's off. I looked like white trash in what I was wearing that morning -- and the guy asked me if he could come into that house. Crap. But at least the house didn't stink. I knew that without a warrant, you don't have to, but I did. I asked him to wait until I locked up Juta, who wants to tear apart any stranger who walks into the house and when I did, I let him in. And he asked to see the dogs. Most were outside and I thought WTH and I let them all in. They came charging around the corner, delighted that we had company and I just stood there as they jumped all over this guy. I figured I'd let him have the full impact. Even old Pete came down the stairs wagging his tail at company. What he was were dogs who were in better than average shape, outgoing and the only response he had was that he could see the dogs were well taken care of and that he'd make a note of it. I also asked him to take down my vet's name and phone # and to please follow up with a phone call to her. I had nothing to hide, except my bad housekeeping at the time "Better Homes and Garbage" and once I got over the intial shock of ACO at my door, I became proactive and not defensive.

 

I'm not sure of the laws in your state or county, but if she isn't going to be coming into the house, well taken care of dogs aren't going to come out of nasty kennels and I'd let the dogs out to "interact" with her just as I did with mine.

 

Still, the thought that you're a sitting duck for some bureaucrats, that bureaucratic intervention and/or confiscation of dogs makes my blood boil. Your well taken-care of 8 dogs are more of a target than some slob who has one or two dogs, whose living condition and care leave a lot to be desired.

 

Worry is normal. But I'd get good and pi$$ed off too. But have your facts of your rights and what the law says in order.

 

Hope everything goes OK. I'm really interested in how things progress for you. Keep us posted, OK?

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Thanks for the thoughts...

 

I did purchase the kennel license in the beginning of the year, and at that time, they give you a computer print out that is essentially a receipt of payment for the license. It does not spell out your rights or expectations for doing so, and this is one of the points I want to bring up with the chief. If I signed something that stated I knew I was granting permission for officials to come on my property at any time for inspections, I ought to retain a copy of that agreement. I guess I know that any goverment official has the legal right to come for the purpose of ensuring the animals are taken care of (ARGHHHH) properly anyway, but this is my problem.

 

The officer I spoke with Friday is a friend, someone who I know personally because of horses. She gave me all kind of whatevers that were intended to make me feel better, like she told them at a meeting that I was legit, I took good care of all my animals, did 4-H, worked for a vet, blah blah blah, but all that did was get me more concerned, "you guys talked about my case?" I know they discuss interesting cases weekly as a training exercise. They had a lot of fun with the case of my sheep getting killed by the neighborhood dogs and the guy who owned the dogs going home and shooting one of them. Not illegal in Hanover. He had no rabies and no licenses. ALL CHARGES WERE THROWN OUT in that case, because my 4-H kid's dad, who witnessed the dogs being in the sheep's pasture, had his own pit mix kill a neighbor's westie the day before, and HE pitched a fit with the Commonwealth's attorney about being involved in yet another animal control case and would not take time out of his busy schedule to testify on behalf of our sheep, no more case. See why I want to pull my hair out? My head explodes thinking of that mess. I still intend to take Mr Sheep Killer's owner to small claims for vet bills and one dead sheep. Now this.

 

SO, yes, my county is known for all kinds of stringencies, political croneyisms, and the law states have all the dogs you want (up to 50) in Agricultural zoned areas, kennel license available for up to 50 dogs, $35 for under 20, not sure how much for over, I will never be there. It is $6 per dog for normal folks, and they do claim to go door to door. We do have Rabies in the county, legit concern. We do have hoarders. We do have dog fighting issues, being close to Richmond. Most counties closer in have liomits on how many animals you can have (dog and cat).

 

I did have all the dogs out in the yard when the officer who came did come to the house, and I pulled out some of my smaller crates and had set them up in the tack room, which she said were too small. I have three separate dog pens (nice ones for when the pups where too little to keep an eye on and old dogs needed to be watched and I wanted them out but couldn't guarantee keeping an eye on them (Eve and her old "walkabouts"). Those are not intended for "kennels" since I don't have barrels in them or igloos (LOL). SHe did say they looked wonderful, and they were so sweet and well behaved. No matter. She wants to see them all in BIG ol' crates with waterbowls not dumped (thanks, Shea), so back she comes on the 25th. I will let you know how this goes.

 

Again, my main issue is privacy, use of county manpower for this, and my freedom to have eight dogs and manage them without any undue harassment from the goverment. I know what they have to deal with in some cases, but it bothers me that if all the social dog ills I mentioned happen somewhere, why do I have to be scrutinized when it ought to be clear that I am trying to go by the law and get the dang license and can show them eight good lookin' dogs. There are NOT fifty more in the house, even though it looks like a storage unit.

 

Keeping my sense of humor!

[Pam Wolf]

When KS was implementing tough kennel liscense many years ago, I was part of the group that went to the hearings and helped explain that there was another category of breeder, the 'show/hobby' breeder. We had difficulty explaining that our dogs stayed in our homes, so I understand your problem. No help here unless it is to suggest to your State that there needs to be another category of breeder whose dogs are 'house dogs'.

 

I will say however, I do understand the inspector's wishing to see the dog's housing (and fully understand about the messy house!). It ahs been many eyars since I saw some of the conditions some breeders kept their dogs in, but I have seen dogs kept in the house in horrible condition. Dogs running loose with urine and feces EVERYWHERE in the house. Not a pile or two, but 15+ piles around the house. The house reeked of the stuff. This is substandard IMHO. (not saying you are <G> but I do know conditions exist where houses are horrible places for dogs.)

[kajarrel]

Debbie, I think your statement about knowing your rights/responsiblities is on the nose.

 

One of the most important things when dealing with these types of agencies is to actually obtain and read the laws yourselves and not depend entirely on the government people to interpret them for you. A recent experience showed us that, at least locally, those implementing the law may not actually know all the nuances of the law, particularly at lower levels of the agency. Policies and procedures (at least in our case) error on the conservative side (one size fits all) when discretion may be permitted (and necessary). And people empowed with discretion may not have the background to exercise discretion. Luckily, my husband is an attorney and was able to advocate for us/our animals (and resulted in the BEST care). But it took at whole day of phone calls and moving up the ladder at the Govt. agency we were battling with.

 

Kim

[Sue R]

I've spent some time with Debbie, stayed in her house, shared motel rooms with her, helped her with chores, seen where she works, met a few of her 4H kids - if I were a dog/horse/sheep/4Her and had my pick, Debbie would be among my first choices if not the first choice of a person to live with.

 

The shame is that many regulations frequently manage to hurt or distress honest good people while the very people they are aimed at are often able to thumb their noses at the rules.

 

I am sure I wouldn't pass inspection if I was due one - my three, while living in large crates in the living room (when I am gone and during the night), do not have water in their crates, they can be in there for a workday where I am gone for up to 10 hours, and no air conditioning in our house. Suffering? I don't think so. Against some area's rules? Definitely, yes.

 

But in our area, the general situation is more often on a chain, attached to a dog house or a tree, who knows how regularly watered and fed (fresh, clean water and fresh food), day in and day out. The "lucky" dogs have a chain link kennel, a shade/wind barrier tarp, and an igloo, and some time out with their people occasionally.

 

Best wishes dealing with bureaucracy, Deb!

[painted_ponies]

Debbie, I am so sorry you are having to contend with this. What's the penalty if you just tell them "no"? I know, you signed something that says they can come on your property. But what happens if you don't? What penalty does the ordinance provide?

 

ETA: No, government agents do NOT have the right to come on to your property to make sure you're abiding by their ordinance. Not without a warrant, they do not. Municipal officials do not always believe this but it is true. Tell them to look at the 4th Amendment.

 

However, once you allow them to enter your property, the "plain sight doctrine" applies. Which means anything they see they can act upon.

 

Or, as a friend of mine (who's an ACO) says, "Without a warrant, we're kind of like vampires. We can't come in unless invited, but if you invite us in, you might get seriously [ahem - messed ] up."

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks Sally for being willing to speak to the legality of the action of government representatives. I'm with Sue on this one. I know the laws are meant to prevent abuse of animals, but it does seem that the end result is a bunch of good, honest folks being harrassed while the real bozos are overlooked because they haven't even bothered to comply with the law and get a license.

 

Good luck Debbie. I noticed that Tractor Supply carries the Remington brand crates, and while they don't see quite as sturdy as the Varikennels, they are $80 for an extra-large (40-inch). This may be a situation in which--if you can afford it--you just go ahead and buy enough big crates to go out in the tackroom and hang full buckets of water in them to CYA with animal control. (People like Laura and me, who are essentially crate hoarders, could throw a bunch of crates out in a barn in a second, still have plenty to leave a suitable number in the van for travel, and still have nearly enough to crate everyone in the house. Another option is to keep an eye on Craig's list. I got an XL Pet Porter for $25, like new, but missing most of the screws, easily replaced for $2.75, and a friend of mine made a similar find. You could probably manage to get together enough crates to make a "permanent" kennel in your tackroom without ever having to move crates out of there. It can be your showplace for ACO kennel inspections!)

 

 

J.

[Wendy V]

I have no intentions of buying a kennel license or even a dog tag. Why put the government on notice?

 

People like Laura and me, who are essentially crate hoarders...

 

Ha! I can identify. One can never own enough crates. I just bought 10 used crates this weekend.

 

A side issue to this discussion is housekeeping. I find it imperative to keep a tidy home when owning multiple dogs, particularly if you are over the township limits in number of animals being kept. Frankly, if your home is a wreck then you are either disorganized (read: lazy) or overcommitted. Tidy homes are healthy homes and are key to good dog husbandry and a well-balanced life.

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Sue, thanks, big hug.

 

Pam, Julie, I'm exactly like you, in that I have enough giant crates (from days long ago pre-Border Collie), wire and Vari to do this twice over, PLUS the old kennel runs from work when we renovated a few years ago to stainless steel. Altogether, I have five runs and one 10X10 exercise pen, just sitting here, and room in the tackroom for the sofa, TV, tenish saddles, cabinets, fans, and seven big enough crates. Typically, Simon goes to work with me and everywhere, so he can have the sofa, and if she says anything about that arrangement, I will give up. Three visits to my place, half hour each, is my situation worth an employee's time like that? I have nothing to hide! It just seems so stupid. Thanks for the offer of crates, Pam, so kind!

 

I am still going ahead with my plans to speak with the chief and possibly Board of Supervisors, not to give AC grief, but to speak of the loss of privacy and freedom from harrassment and distress (THAT is the working term here.) I do understand what AC is up against, but it seems to me I'm not the problem.

 

NOw, I'm working on getting the dang tags on the collars they don't typically wear. One week and one day to go.

[painted_ponies]

Debbie - since the ACO is already aware that you have giant crates, do you suppose her objection may be to the fact the dogs are crated, period? You know how the mis-informed sometimes feel we are "caging" dogs when we crate them.

 

I'm sure you have probably already done this, but for the benefit of the group , you should have a copy of the regulations that spell out exactly what is, and what is not, considered adequate housing for dogs under your ordinance.

[Debbie Meier]

I hope your reinspection goes well.

 

I have had a lump in my gut since July, that was when I was told we would have our reinspection, the inspector has not shown up yet. Every day I wake up thinking this is the day, make sure all the poop is picked up everytime I go out, oh I hope it don't smell like poop, are there too many flies today and make sure that all the water & food dishes have been washed and water filled, oh please, no one have diarrhea today.

 

Worse part is, the inspector may have dropped by when I was not here, saw that we did what we intended to do with our kennel runs when she pulled in the drive way and updated our file. I guess I won't know until the day she drives in next, sometime between now and next May, ugh will kinda suck being on edge until May, but maybe that is the intentions....

[bcnewe2]

I wonder if she was just dumbstruck and wanted to see what a good dog owner is? What a waste of time for the county.

Good on you for holding your ground.

If you don't call me here, don't plan on coming in. I'm a clean person but living with dogs makes me a hairy person that I'm not willing to share with just anyone.

I have one dog registered with the county, it was Sam who got reg. when he went on his little vacation. The lead AC was standing right there when I told him I have 6 dogs. He didn't say a word about reg. the rest. Nice guy....I hope!

[Sue R]

Gee, I have one spare crate. I had two more but gave one to each daughter. I feel so...out of the mainstream here.

 

I love Wendy's comment. I'm hoping it was in jest, the part about housekeeping as a guideline to dogkeeping and welfare. I am the queen of clutter, dog hair, and cobwebs - but at least the dogs and the spiders seem to thrive here!

[juliepoudrier]

I am the queen of clutter, dog hair, and cobwebs - but at least the dogs and the spiders seem to thrive here!

Same here Sue. The house is fairly clean, but by no means up to some folks' standards. I vaccum 2-3 times a werk, but that's it. I dust less often, but then that's fighting a losing battle when you have a housemate who smokes. And it does get cluttered until I periodically go through and straighten things out again. But my dogs, all of whom live in the house, are healthy and happy. No dog poo on the floor or some of the other hallmarks of hoarding and bad ownership. I wouldn't be the least worried about someone coming in here to evaluate the living conditions for the dogs, aside from the personal rights thing.

 

As for extra crates, it really started because I didn't want to have to continually haul crates in and out of the van (especially since they're strapped together in there), so needed the requisite number in the van and then a like number in the house for crating dogs if I'm going out for more than a few minutes. Next thing you know, you find some great bargains on Craig's List and the like and you decide to upgrade to larger (= more comfortable) crates in the house, and so on.... Old semi-broken-down crates get transferred out to be used to house hens with newly hatched chicks, etc. And of course, I have quite a collection of cat crates, too, though now I have just two cats.

 

J.

[Wendy V]

No, Sue, actually I was serious. I have several friends who have multiple dogs, happy and well-cared for (the dogs), yet live in appalling conditions (the people). This state of extreme disorder and filth renders the owner very vunerable to negative consequences of a governmental inspection, regardless of the health of the animals. IMO, your home reflects your life, and if you live in state of chaos, then it is a strong message that you are over-committed or over-focused in others areas of your life. A tidy home reflects a balanced life. A balanced life and a tidy home brings health and happiness to all creatures who reside there.

 

I'm sure my post will strike a nerve with some, but if we don't take control of our home, our life, and our animals, then some other enitity surely will. Those of us with multiple dogs have an obligation, a stewartship if you will, to present a home that is clean and organized to the outside world, admittable to non-dog friends, at the very least. If not, then we quickly turn into neighborhood freaks; over-dogged, under-funded, and living in chaos. We take on the live-long care of dogs because we love them. Let's not love ourselves less.

[Laurae]

Who decides what level of tidiness is "balanced"?

[Lenajo]

WendyV has a point. The condition in which some people live with their dogs, however well intentioned and loving, is seriously unhealthy.

 

The more dogs you have, the more things you choose to include in your life, then the harder it will be to balance a clean environment to it. And note I'm saying "clean", not Better homes and Gardens. I'm talking about keeping the hair, dirt, and poop under control so that you can let the postman in the door without apology for the smell or site. (And no, saying "it doesn't bother me" is not the answer)

 

And I think DebbieM's comment below says even more:

 

Every day I wake up thinking this is the day, make sure all the poop is picked up everytime I go out, oh I hope it don't smell like poop, are there too many flies today and make sure that all the water & food dishes have been washed and water filled, oh please, no one have diarrhea today.

 

If you have to struggle daily to keep poop smell and flies under control, to keep the water and food dishes washed, if one dogs temporary illness puts you over the limit of filth as to fail a kennel inspection or even a non-dog friend stopping by for a visit....well....frankly something is *wrong*. You either needs less dogs, more help, or some variation thereof.

 

I am really trying not to pass judgement here, but I'm afraid I'm failing. And don't tell me I don't know what it's like with a large pack of dogs. I'm there right now.

[juliepoudrier]

I read Debbie M's post differently. Not that she is unable to keep up but that if an inspector showed up at the wrong time, meaning just after a messy poo incident or something like that she's got to worry about the impression the inspector will get. I find it hard to believe that most folks pick up after their dogs more than a couple of times a day--I don't care if you just have one or two dogs. Most of the folks I know who keep dogs kenneled, say, while they're at work during the day, clean the kennels in the morning and again in the evening. If they're home during the day, they may pick up the kennels more than that, but I have to agree with Laura E here: Who sets the balance or acceptable level of cleanliness? Do those of you with lots of dogs spend the day following them around with the scooper making sure no turd is missed? I doubt it. But what if an inspector shows up right after you've let dogs out to potty and before you've had a chance to scoop after them? Are you suddenly an unfit owner simply because of timing?

 

J.

[Lenajo]

You can assume she meant differently - I find it difficult and am just looking at what she wrote. I know I can show up at quite a few large kennels here, including my own any time of day and the runs are 90% clean or better. Dogs that get let out regularily prefer not to soil their kennels, and dogs that have room to exercise don't create a fly infested mess with regular and quite reasonable pick up.

 

If somebody can't handle it, then they don't need to keep so many dogs. For one person that may be 3, for another 30. Who determines this? I don't know. We've discussed unreasonable AC before, and I think we're all in agreement about that. There are avenues to complain, and certainly laws and basic rights should be enforced.

 

Here we are talking, dog person to dog person, about how to police *ourselves*. I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to expect someone who keeps dogs to have it set up so that a clean environment is the default. If you have to, to quote Debbie, live in fear that there are too many flies "today" (today? as in its appropriate to have flies at another time?)....again, something is wrong.

[Wendy V]

JP, I was speaking in generalities, not of Debbie M. in particular. I'm sure you can follow my thinking. Degrees of cleaniness? Perhaps, but I believe that we all know what acceptable levels of cleaniness are. (Sorry for the preposition).

[painted_ponies]

I have to agree with Laura E here: Who sets the balance or acceptable level of cleanliness? Do those of you with lots of dogs spend the day following them around with the scooper making sure no turd is missed? I doubt it. But what if an inspector shows up right after you've let dogs out to potty and before you've had a chance to scoop after them? Are you suddenly an unfit owner simply because of timing?

 

J.

 

Yep. And word out of Virginia and other areas targeted by AR groups is: the inspector will find something. Often raids are timed for first thing in the morning or even the middle of the night to increase the chances the kennels will not have been cleaned for several hours.

 

Many states/counties/etc contract out AC enforcement to private entities - usually non-profit shelters - and allow people to be volunteer ACO's with little to no training. Such a job is attractive to folks with an AR agenda.

 

If you allow the inspection, chances are they will find something.

 

Oh, and just as a PSA - "surrendering" the dog is often offered as a compromise to the owner in lieu of consequences for the "violation." Be aware that surrendering means you give up all rights to the dog forever and ever amen. It also lets AC off the hook because they can say, with wide-eyed innocence, "She gave me the dog(s)." Sorry if this insults anyone's intelligence, but it has come up on other lists where people truly didn't realize surrendering the dog(s) meant it was gone forever.

 

Of course, as stated above, inspectors cannot come on your property without either a warrant or your permission.

 

Here's a nice informative site on these kinds of issues - it's said they are undertaking the defense of Wendy Willard in the Murder Hollow basset case.

NAIA Trust

[Lenajo]

JP, I was speaking in generalities, not of Debbie M. in particular. I'm sure you can follow my thinking. Degrees of cleaniness? Perhaps, but I believe that we all know what acceptable levels of cleaniness are. (Sorry for the preposition).

 

I would rather not pick on DebbieM either, but her statement provided some serious fodder for discussion. Sorry Debbie.

 

I too agree, that most of us know what acceptable cleanliness is. And equally...when we are overdogged and when its acceptable chaos/multi dog acceptable issues and what isn't.