Kip bit Sollers at the kennel

[powerfulgazelle]

So, having not had anything that looked like vacation in a couple years, we set off for a few days to visit family in northern OH for my nephew's grad party as he heads off the Case Western this fall.

 

We thought about bringing the dogs (the hotel said they do accept dogs), but were afraid that most of the activities we would be involved in (long visits with family doing things with 6 kids aged 2-18) would not lend themselves well to canines, so we chose to kennel them at the same place they stayed about 2 yrs ago.

 

The kennel offers "suites"---large rooms for dog "siblings" where the two guys could room together. The kennel requires a detailed (3 page) behavior and care history. We were explicit about Sol's recent attempts to challenge the pack order w/Kip over meals (stinkeye and snarking) and specified that the dogs were to be fed separately because of this.

 

Dogs checked in on Thurs eve., with their explicit behavioral sheets. DH went over the "peculiarities" in person: Kip is an escape artist, reactive to other dogs on leash, and freaks out about hairdryers and vacuum cleaners. Sol may try to challenge Kip over meals/high value treats. They MUST be separated at mealtimes.

 

They called us Sunday AM to say the dogs ran out of food (we sent our own kibble, in pre-portioned, labeled ziplocs, with an extra day to boot). Turns out they were double-feeding (two days rations per day). Oops. We went over the directions again; and worked out that they would use the house kibble (Wellness) to finish out the stay.

 

DH picked the guys up yesterday midday. When DS was petting Sol last night he ran his hand over his shoulder (up top under his ruff) and found a jawbreaker+/not quite golf ball sized clump of crud---dried blood/scab and foul smelling dried + gooey yellowish slough/drainage + eschar. We got Sol in the bath and used the WaterPik shower thing/peroxide and flea comb to pick thru and figure out that under it was a 2.5" open yellow wound, with what looks like a dark tooth puncture in the middle.

 

We called the kennel, which has a RVT staffing it at night, and left a message to let them know.

 

Sol is at the vet now.

 

DH spoke with the kennel mgr this AM, who says, "Oh yes, the RVT found a small spot of blood Sat AM, so investigated, and DEBRIDED the wound." and confirmed (which we knew anyhow) that would had NOT been there on check in.

 

Um, you found it and debrided it---and did not call us, or tell us when you had us on the phone Sunday anyhow, or call the vet's, or tell us on the glowing "report card" at pick-up so we could call the vet timely ourselves?!

 

Is it me?! If the wound needed "debriding" (even by the gentlest definition of the worrd), and since the dog couldn't have gotten it any other way but by bite, dontcha think some follow up care, maybe an antibx might be order?! Or at least tell the owners?!

 

I am waiting on the vet to call back, then I'll give the kennel mgr a chance to explain herself.

[desertranger]

I would start by talking to the kennel owner and asking for an apology for the poor care, and inattention to the instructions (didn't they figure out something was wrong when the ran out of food?. I woild also ask for a refund and at least a partial payment of the vets bill since treatment by the RVT could have prevented an infection and a major vets visit.

 

From a business point of view he's a service that get's a lot of money. If I have an unsatisfied guest he usually gets a refund or guest pass for the next time he's here. I believe he should cough up for the same reason. Unhappy clients are entitled to a refund. It's also a good way for him to realize he has a problem somewhere.

 

Personally I'm very leery about kennels. There is one here I might trust if I had to the, Great Paw resort very nice and upscale with an agility course, play areas and lots more. The dogs have condos and you can watch them on the web but when it all comes down to it it's a question of how good and dedicated the handlers are.

[Lenajo]

Puncture dog bites goo up pretty quickly, so the wound could have been debrided (cleaned well basically) the day before and need the same the next. Antibiotics are overkill for a cleaned, single tooth puncture imo, but I agree it would have been proper to be notified.

 

Beyond that, honestly, there is fault on both sides here. You cannot possibly expect a busy kennel to follow elaborate, detailed instructions for dog/dog interation between the dogs to the level you would at home. There simply isn't the time. And I fault the kennel for even indicating they would follow all of this they knew with hired help and lots of dogs it would be difficult at best.

 

You and the kennel both should have insisted on seperate seperate kennels. Being boarded is stressful enough without being locked in with a dog that doesn't like you half the time already; never mind that the caretakers that don't know either of them personally. You are lucky that the one dog didn't seriously harm or kill the other in a stress related fight.

 

Definately I would call the kennel manager out on the problems and expect at best some reduction in the bill for you trouble. And next time, book **2** kennels!

[mbc1963]

Ugh. That stinks all around! I hope they're both OK. Boarding is so stressful on the OWNERS!

 

I don't know anything about running a dog boarding facility, so can't point my finger at the operators. I guess it does make sense for the future to board them in separate kennels, just in case. Two challenging dogs is a lot of work!

 

Mary

[WildFlower]

I too don't know anything about running a kennel, but would agree that you should have been notified about an injury and expecially been able to approve the way that they would like to treat it.

 

I hope that there is a speedy recovery!

[Lewie'sMom]

Puncture dog bites goo up pretty quickly, so the wound could have been debrided (cleaned well basically) the day before and need the same the next. Antibiotics are overkill for a cleaned, single tooth puncture imo, but I agree it would have been proper to be notified.

 

Beyond that, honestly, there is fault on both sides here. You cannot possibly expect a busy kennel to follow elaborate, detailed instructions for dog/dog interation between the dogs to the level you would at home. There simply isn't the time. And I fault the kennel for even indicating they would follow all of this they knew with hired help and lots of dogs it would be difficult at best.

 

You and the kennel both should have insisted on seperate seperate kennels. Being boarded is stressful enough without being locked in with a dog that doesn't like you half the time already; never mind that the caretakers that don't know either of them personally. You are lucky that the one dog didn't seriously harm or kill the other in a stress related fight.

 

Definately I would call the kennel manager out on the problems and expect at best some reduction in the bill for you trouble. And next time, book **2** kennels!

 

To this I say, bullroar. When I take Lewie to be boarded I pay GOOD money for his care and well-being. Clients should expect nothing less.

 

Absolutely, the kennel should have contacted you as soon as they discovered the issue. And, they were negligent about informing you at pick-up.

 

Personally, I'd look for another kennel if you don't get a satisfactory answer from the kennel manager.

[Smokjbc]

To this I say, bullroar. When I take Lewie to be boarded I pay GOOD money for his care and well-being. Clients should expect nothing less.

 

Absolutely, the kennel should have contacted you as soon as they discovered the issue. And, they were negligent about informing you at pick-up.

 

Personally, I'd look for another kennel if you don't get a satisfactory answer from the kennel manager.

 

 

I agree that the kennel should have let the owner know at least at pickup, if not contacted. But if you are aware that your dogs have issues at feeding time, they should have been seperated period. I'm sorry but having managed vet clinics with kennels for a while now, I see this all the time. Dogs in a boarding situation will be stressed and any issues they have will be magnified. It could be over food, over the space that is available to them, a response to other dogs barking/acting excited- anything. I would expect an apology and a reasonable explanation, but if you were not charged for the vet treatment given to your dog, I'm not sure I'd expect a big bill discount or anything. The kennel could have avoided this by having the same rule we have. If owners want the dogs seperated at feeding, they must be seperated at all times (we will walk them out together).

[ejano]

We made this same error years ago -- you'd think that two dogs that slept together on a hearth rug and shared food bowls would get along in a confined space and we thought as it was the first time they'd been boarded it would be easier on them to be together. No way -- we hadn't even hit the interstate when the kennel owner separated them because they were fighting, probably because of the stress of being unnaturally confined together instead of making the closeness their own choice...they did fine in their own spaces where they could see each other.

 

THe kennel owner should have been more forthcoming about the wisdom of separating the dogs and definately reported the bite.

[powerfulgazelle]

FWIW:

 

Sol and Kip have boarded there in the "suite" very well once before...the "separate at feeding time" was our request to mimic the arrangement at home, where they are fed separately...and a request they specifically ask if the owners want when detailing their care plan. And, the reason we go with this kennel is the staffing, the supervision, the webcams, that the dogs are in a regular human "room" as compared to kennel runs, etc. (Kip would be absolutely ape-poop if he had to be in a regular run seeing/hearing other dogs.) I get that sh*t happens sometimes despite the best intentions, and I am actually okay with the fact that Kip *may* have bitten Sol---not happy with it, but I understand it is a risk r/t being boarded in the same room---and we may not make that choice again---they may end up in private rooms---but yes, we do expect the level if supervision we pay for. The kennel runs a consumer service---it is not a favor they are doing me. If they are "busy", it is b/c they are busy doing the work I and other clients hire them to do. If they offer/sell a very low staffing ration with tons of 1:1 care and supervision, that is what I expect, not some reduced standard. If they wish to charge more "traditional" kenneling fees with more traditional kenneling arrangements, fine. But that is not what we shopped for or purchased. Canine boarding was just about the price of human boarding for this trip! (Nice Marriott in the western suburbs of Cleveland for four humans vs. two dogs at the dog spa.)

 

***ETA: The cost of two "private" rooms (not kennel runs, which Kip would not have tolerated w/o having a nervous breakdown) is comparable to the large two-dog-staying-together suite. I'd certainly think about doing that next time. But the idea of the rooms inside vs. the indoor/outdoor runs is that they are quiet---you can't hear the other dogs---so hopefully less stressful on Kip (and Sol).

 

The kennel mgr was very apologetic that this info was not passed on at pick up time. She's concerned, as the RVT's notes from Sat night indicate a "dime sized scab" that he attended to by cleaning and putting polysporin on---not a giant oozing, stinky mess.

 

The vet's ofc (new vet, don't know her, regular vet out) is telling us it is a hot spot.

 

Question: I have no experience with a dog developing a hot spot 2 1/2 " wide in middle of the fleshy part between the shoulder blades where the dog absolutely cannot reach no-way, no-how. (When I cleaned it last night and Sol desperately wanted to get at it, he could. not. reach. it.) Has anyone heard of a clean, well groomed Lab-furred (not matted, not longhaired, not rough coated), nonallergic, non skin sensitive dog developing a big ol' hot spot back there w/o mechanical friction? My only experience was our defective bulldog licking at her leg and developing one once. I guess I think of hotspots as being related to allergy, itching, irritation, being crated and not able to change position, matted fur, etc. Does this seem likely?

 

Urgh. Poor Sol.

[Lenajo]

Hot spots do not require the dog reach them to develop. I've seen them where you describe, the top of the head and neck etc. It's very possible the hotspot is the result of the puncture's drainage irritating the skin.

 

As to the rest, a "room" is just a fancy kennel with solid walls. If the dogs had *any* problem getting along at home they absolutely should be seperated when they are in such an environment. The potential for a serious fight is just to high. You've got boarding stress + owner/person in charge missing + lack of normal diffusing room = potential disaster.

 

If the kennel doesn't know that now, they will be learning it quickly. Hopefully before they have a boarder's dog seriously injured or killed.

 

The level of supervision you are asking for is impossible in a public setting unless you are willing to pay for 1 on 1 supervision 24/7. Checking in with the dogs every 30 minutes and mopping up the blood is not acceptable. It sounds like might need a live in house sitter - it may be cheaper, and there at least the dogs will have their normal amout of space to get out of each other's way.

 

I've had multiple dogs for over 30 years, and most of my dogs get along just fine when I'm there. I would not put them in groups, even old friends, in a confined space in a strange place for days on end with a stranger in charge and expect that to work. Even with human kids, who can be given verbal understanding and ask questions, that would probably not work.

[Lizmo]

You and the kennel both should have insisted on seperate seperate kennels. Being boarded is stressful enough without being locked in with a dog that doesn't like you half the time already; never mind that the caretakers that don't know either of them personally. You are lucky that the one dog didn't seriously harm or kill the other in a stress related fight.

 

Definitely agree with this. I would not kennel dogs together - even if they did get along. We board our two males (who get along most of the time) and since they can get on each others nerves, they are always in seperate runs. The dogs know the boarding/vet staff very well, but it's still a high stress area with so many other dogs in the same room/s. Boarding dogs together in the same kennel is a risk that isn't worth taking, IMO.

 

I, too, would be upset if the boarding staff didnt call me to let me know something had happened to my dog.

[border_collie_crazy]

I work in a kennel and I have to say that exepecting a call for a bite seems a bit much. I work in a social kennel(the runs are traditional, but the dogs are only in them to sleep and eat, otherwise they run and play with other dogs in a 1 acre feild), so bites and small injurys are not uncommon, and we sure as heck dont call the owner in a panic for every little bite! we treat it it, we keep an eye on it, and we mention it to the owner at pick up. calling the owner or emergancy contact is for..well.. emergancys.

[powerfulgazelle]

I work in a kennel and I have to say that exepecting a call for a bite seems a bit much. I work in a social kennel(the runs are traditional, but the dogs are only in them to sleep and eat, otherwise they run and play with other dogs in a 1 acre feild), so bites and small injurys are not uncommon, and we sure as heck dont call the owner in a panic for every little bite! we treat it it, we keep an eye on it, and we mention it to the owner at pick up. calling the owner or emergancy contact is for..well.. emergancys.

 

 

Understood---my concern was that the dog had an injury that got the attention of the RVT (not the regular handlers) and a chart entry...it would have been good to have been told about it on the "report card" at pick up time. FWIW, the kennel mgr was very reasonable and concerned when we spoke...I get the idea that she also believes the whateveritis should have gotten a mention. And, I think she was already a little irked that the staff had screwed up "FEED ONCE PER DAY", which doesn't seem complicated to me, esp when we provide premeasured kibble in dated/timed ziplocs with the dog's name AND photo on the front. (Seriously---we make labels with the dog's name + headshot since we can't just say "the black and white one".)

 

Vet does think it's a hotspot, not a bite... At least, it smells better now that it is clipped/cleaned/etc.

 

Yeah, Lenajo, we've sure thought about someone who would come in to our home...we always used to leave old dog with my m-i-l...her age no longer would let her keep up with our dogs (one old dog then vs. two young ones now). And, I feel like I'd need to find someone who understands the rules about BC + old cat interactions. I am okay with ME managing Kip + the cat, but would not want someone who would bend the rules/not understand the rules/give Kip an inch which would turn into a mile.... I wish I could find that person!!

[agilityrunningdogs]

I also work in a dog kennel and I can say that we absolutely call for a dog bite and we seperate the dogs immediately. This isn't a small operation either; 70+ dog runs, but I know every dog's name by heart, and their different quirks and personality traits. Sure, if they haven't been in a year, we can look it up on our computer system, but the fact of the matter is that a kennel isn't quite like another buisness where they are just customers. These are living, breathing creatures and they deserve respect. If one family member bites another, that's an emergency. If a dog scrapes his paw pad on a rock, then you treat it and tell them at pick-up.

 

I believe you should have been notified right away - especially if you were already on the phone (double-feeding? Ugh). However, we also advise that dogs that need to be seperated for any reason, be seperated period. Like it was said before, two dogs who don't get along 100% don't need to be crammed together in a new situation.

 

I'm sorry that this happened to you regardless.

[border_collie_crazy]

oh you definatly should have been told lol. I think im just not sure how the staffing works at your kennel, so I have no idea what an RTV is? at the kennel I work at every staff member handles everything, we are not seperated out into different types of staff, even the certified groomer helps out with the cleaning, checking in/out, bookings, handling etc.. when she has down time between grooms lol

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The way you describe it did sound like a hot spot. Stress can trigger them where normally they wouldn't get one and a small injury to the skin would certainly focus the irritation sufficiently. Ben got them at the drop of a hat and most of the time they were between his shoulder blades or centered on his spine. They developed literally in minutes. I actually saw one flare up once - he was laying next to me during a thunderstorm and I noticed a spot on his back getting kind of weird looking. I turned back the hair and sure enough the skin was angry red and oozing. Within the hour, it was yellow and crusting up - I threw Ben in the bathtub and did my usual oatmeal bath and stopped it - but that was so creepy.

 

Anyway, on the central point. We boarded our two original dogs together once at a nice kennel. Maggie at the time considered it her job to watch over Bubo, our epileptic dog. What I didn't realize was that she was highly protective of him. Sweet Maggie attacked the first kennel worker to visit their "room" after they were installed - they had to get a kennel noose and drag her out before she'd let anyone in the kennel door (it was a literal door). Obviously they had to kennel them separately after that and that's my policy from now on.

 

If I have to board a Border Collie in fact I ask for small runs rather than the fancy large areas - not because I'm cheap (a few dollars makes no difference to me) - because I then pay for extra walks. I think they are calmer that way, assuming the dogs are kennel trained.

 

When I did heavy duty fostering, if I had to leave for the weekend, I usually boarded whatever fosters I had at my vet. It gave them a mental break from life at my place, and they also got grooming and vet updating if they needed it. That also gave me a good idea of how the dogs behaved away from home, for the exact reason that has come up in this thread. It was a bit like boot camp.

[powerfulgazelle]

RVT = registered vet tech

 

The kennel is staffed by animal caregivers, groomers in the grooming dept, etc., but there is also always a vet tech on duty, incl overnight each night.

 

It's a nice place, all in all. They have a 3 acre, members-only dog park, daycare, a warm water indoor swimming pool for the dogs, training, in addition to the kenneling. While I wasn't tickled about the mishaps, they do seem to care about their work. (The dogs are on webcam, so you can check in 24/7. We have noticed the guys getting all kinds of lovin', even when they were not receiving direct care.) The mgr was fine when we spoke yesterday and wanted to call again today to see how Sol is.

 

If we ever need to kennel the guys again, I would go back, I think---at least til I find a fairy godmother who will come to the house and manage two big dogs and entitled-acting cat.

 

The OoeyGooey Thing on Sol's shoulder is better---much less stinky and wet since getting clipped down, cleaned up and antibiotic-ed.

[powerfulgazelle]

The way you describe it did sound like a hot spot. Stress can trigger them where normally they wouldn't get one and a small injury to the skin would certainly focus the irritation sufficiently. Ben got them at the drop of a hat and most of the time they were between his shoulder blades or centered on his spine. They developed literally in minutes. I actually saw one flare up once - he was laying next to me during a thunderstorm and I noticed a spot on his back getting kind of weird looking. I turned back the hair and sure enough the skin was angry red and oozing. Within the hour, it was yellow and crusting up - I threw Ben in the bathtub and did my usual oatmeal bath and stopped it - but that was so creepy.

 

Wow. Maybe so, then... The OoeyGooey Thing has a small, single, tooth sized dark spot in the center----and its location, right where Kip has been known to grab Sollers by the dogsuit when needed (Sol is Lab-ish in his coat, houndy in the ears and face, but with a ruff...the skin around his front end is loose like a hound's...sometimes Kip will grab a bit of 'extra dogsuit' when they play) led me to think "bite". And, I always thought of hotspots going along with allergy, matted coats or mechanical friction...but sounds like not always the case.

 

But other than the single puncture looking part, it is shallow, yellow and hot...so maybe, huh? Oatmeal bath even now? It is drying out considerably and Sol is on cephalexin... I have some Aveeno for the kids (two legged ones), so maybe I'll give that a whirl too.