Intro and questions

[SeanBlader]

So I've been a frisbee enthusiast any time I get a chance to throw one with friends or family, which is to say rarely. So I thought I could get a disc dog. Reports are that Border Collies make the best disc dogs, then conveniently enough, the breed also fit my other criteria, a dog I could inline-skate with a few times a week, was medium sized, didn't shed too much, and of course, is smart.

 

Here are my challenges, I live in a 3 story (bottom floor is a 2 car garage) townhouse in Silicon Valley, I have a small gated front yard (maybe 12 feet by 20 feet) with a 6 foot fence, and my car is a two seater.

 

I don't have any kids and don't expect to have any other pets when I'm going to switch from being a cat owner. I haven't been around a dog continuously since I was like 4, when we had a collie/german shepherd mix. I did visit my dad on vacations and he had an older german shepherd who died when I was something like 7 years old. So I'm not anti-dog, and all my friends have them, and it's awesome to see how much joy they get out of their relationships. Even in much smaller spaces than I have.

 

I'm looking to get a dog in about 2 years when I've learned what I need to know about owning and training a dog. I'm sure I can handle the energy level at least in the evenings and weekends, a good friend of mine is a professional dog walker and could exercise my BC in the mornings. I've read through the first 10 pages of the forum here looking for threads that would help, and have been very encouraged at the support and maturity level here.

 

My name is Sean, and is a Border Collie right for me?

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Welcome and good on ya for doing some research!

I'm not the most experience owner on these boards, but I would like to say that perhaps looking to rescue for an older (like 1-2years) dog would be a good option for someone like you who hasn't had the most dog experience. At this age they are able to play sports without risk of damaging growth plates too, so you'd be able to get right into playing frisbee and skating with the dog. Also through rescue, most dogs have been in foster homes and someone will be able to help you find a dog that has an appropriate energy level or a really good "off" switch in the house! This way your odds of getting the right dog for you will be much, much higher.

Good luck.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

There's nothing about your post that says, "Run away! Never think about a Border Collie again!" Is that helpful? You seem to be committed to putting some thought into it and that goes a long way right from the start. Border Collie ownership challenges the grey matter so you are getting off to a good start there.

 

Where a dog lives matters less than what the dog does. There's people on these boards who live in urban situations and simply are committed to that early wakeup call, and that bit of extra time and training it takes to make an urban-savvy dog. Oftentimes, when I am adopting out a dog, I actually prefer such applicants when I get the impression from them that they are going to go the extra mile. Border Collies can be particularly suited to such lifestyles because they are routine-oriented - they like "hanging" with their owners much more than hours of free play, alone.

 

I hope that makes sense. Stick around and learn more! Northern California has a strong community of Border Collie people. And the National Sheepdog finals are going to be in Klamath Falls Oregon. For anyone considering jumping into the breed, in the area, this should be a required pilgrimage.

[juliepoudrier]

Hi Sean,

I second Daisy Duke's idea about a rescue, simply because it would be easier to find one that would be suitable for townhouse life and ready to start an active life with you right away. Lots of folks on this forum have border collies in cities and small spaces. It sounds like you are a very active sort of person, so you ought to be fine for border collie ownership, especially if you have a dog walker to get the dog out during the day while you're at work. Good for you for starting your research now. Oh, and you don't have to have an either-or thing with dogs or cats. I had only cats for years because I traveled a lot for work, then later added dogs. I am now down to just two cats (as the geriatrics have passed on), but would never go catless!

 

J.

[dracina]

Hi Sean:

 

As someone who lives in an urban area (Chicago) and has two border collies, it can definitely be done! What everyone else says is true- I think that urbanites have to be a bit more creative in ways to exercise and stimulate their dogs. But, it is not only possible, but really enjoyable. We do all sorts of things like Frisbee (in the park or forest preserve), agility (in our tiny back yard!), walking, obedience, etc. in the city.

 

There are a couple of things that I would like to bring up: first, dog parks. For someone who is a new dog owner, they seem like so much fun- especially when you live in a city and exercise areas are few and far between. However, it has been my experience that they are no such thing at all. Although it is important to socialize your dog, I think that controlled socialization and one-on-one work/play with the owner are far better options than letting a dog run with a bunch of crazies in a dog park. And that's not even refering to the dogs, which are another discussion altogether. That is strictly my opinion, and there are many people here who frequent dog parks with no problems.

 

Also, I think (again, just my opinion) that city living can be a bit rough on a dog due to the constant noise and stimulation. Too much stimulation is possibly as bad as not enough stimulation. The dog should be provided a nice, quiet place (crate) where it can escape from the noise, etc.

 

Just my .02; I am sure that there are loads of people here that can give you far better advice than I! Best of luck to you!

 

Karrin

[Lenajo]

I think a healthy, friendly, frisbee keen young adult or adult dog is best for a situation like yours, and there are definately a lot of those in Rescue. You need to be sure of a good off switch that can be relaxed in your small living space, and definatley a dog that has already been screened by a good foster home as to not have seperation anxiety or problems being alone/crated during the day. That later is something that a single town homer really needs to think about.

 

For Frisbee and what you describe I wouldn't hold my decision just to Border Collies. Australian Shepherd rescue has some outstanding young dogs for frisbee and a home like yours too. Also be open to mixes. A Border Collie/Retriever or Aussie/Retriever mix (both common in Rescue) can be a fantastic Frisbee and companion dog, and maybe not quite so ferrari as a Border Collie for your first steps into pet ownership.

 

I would do my research on the Rescue orgs available to you, then fill out an application and let them guide you to suitable dogs. Have an open mind - don't rule out anything by breed, size, color, or sex. Look for healthy, athletic, and mentally sound. First a pet, then a Frisbee dog.

[Debbie Meier]

didn't shed too much,

 

That's the only thing that would make me leary of suggesting a border collie for you. How much shedding can you accept, and when you think of "not too much" how much is a deal breaker?

 

I know some will think I'm being touchy about the shedding deal, but you included it in your post leading me to believe that loose hair was a bit of an issue, I have heard of more then one dog that was rehomed because it shedded more then the person that purchased/adopted it expected.

 

They do shed, and some shed alot.

 

Deb

[puppytoes]

I live in a very urban setting and i have 2 dogs. A border collie/staffie/lab mix and a border collie. I adopted the mix 10 years ago when she was 1 year old. She came from a suburban setting and was extremely poorly socialized (to everything - she was afraid of puddles). I got her when i was in university and knew nothing about dogs except that i loved them and wanted to have one. I spent a lot of time giving her what she needed instead of expecting her to give me what i wanted. She is now pretty much bombproof. I can walk her down our busiest street downtown and she does not bat an eyelash. My puppy i got when he was 3 months old and i was commited to the idea of socialization. I took him everywhere so that by 6 months he had more exposure to the world than many dogs do in a lifetime. And while he is a little more motion sensitive he is also very adaptable.

 

I guess my points are this:

 

I totally disagree that dogs do not do well in urban settings (especially when introduced to it at a young age). In fact, i think that city dogs can actually get more face time in with their people and do a lot more activities (emphasis on the CAN) because it is very hard to ignore a dog in an appartment but if you have an acre of land, you can delude yourself into thinking that your dog is happy outside.

 

I am very happy that i started out with a slightly older dog and one that was a border collie cross just to make sure that i was ready for the intensity of the breed (as it turns out, my mix is smarter/more of a thinker than my purebred but he has soooo much intensity = fun). I think a good rescue organization could steer you towards a dog that would meet your criteria. Puppies although extremely cute and fun are a pain in the ass (especially if you have been out of the dog loop for a while) and they are a crap shoot - no guarantee they will love frisbee. My mutt loves it far more than my pb

 

Sorry for the long babble!!

[Sue R]

In fact, i think that city dogs can actually get more face time in with their people and do a lot more activities (emphasis on the CAN) because it is very hard to ignore a dog in an apartment but if you have an acre of land, you can delude yourself into thinking that your dog is happy outside.

A very smart comment! I know one young woman who has two Border Collies (both from rescue) in Greenwich Village, NYC. It takes good training by a committed person, and the right dog, to make it work.

 

Rescue would be a wonderful choice for several reasons. One is that, in fostering, a dog can be well-evaluated for potential problems such as separation anxiety (already mentioned), barking issues (a no-no in a high-density living area), and socialization issues. You might even find a dog that has already been shown to be highly motivated and interested in frisbee, and yet still has a solid "off switch".

 

You are doing the right thing to research, read, and learn. Very best wishes!

[Lenajo]

didn't shed too much,

 

You really do need to clarify this.

 

While you can have a nice home and pets too, it takes a little more work. Hair is a reality. You learn to vacumn or ignore, but I can assure you that the ignoring will er...build up.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

You really do need to clarify this.

 

While you can have a nice home and pets too, it takes a little more work. Hair is a reality. You learn to vacumn or ignore, but I can assure you that the ignoring will er...build up.

 

Ya, I agree! I missed that in my original post. My dog sheds a lot. It's not the same as say a JRT or a lab, but every time she sits down on carpet she leaves behind some under coat. PITA!

Easy solution to the problem though....I bought a house with NO carpet and central vac slot (i don't actually know what they are called!) in my kitchen counter that allows me to just sweep everything in it's general direction and the suction does the rest!

[SeanBlader]

Puppies although extremely cute and fun are a pain in the ass (especially if you have been out of the dog loop for a while) and they are a crap shoot - no guarantee they will love frisbee. My mutt loves it far more than my pb.

 

Oh excellent, I was worried about getting an older dog to start with who isn't as malleable as a puppy would be. I was thinking if I started from a clean slate I'd be better able to train in good behavior. But that's a good suggestion. I was thinking I'd pick up a dog in the summer and be ready to hit the parks a year later. I'm not in a rush, and I want to do it right. I've already seen a few books here I want to get.

 

And as far as shedding, I'm not averse to it, but any improvement to having cat fur everywhere would be a good thing. It's like Garfield's owner Jon Arbuckle always said, one of the universal truths to owning a cat is that there will always be a fur in your meal somewhere. And I don't mind vacuuming, even though I have a robot for that. I would hope that a dog would be able to to tolerate the roomba I named "Mo". If you'd seen the amount of gray fur I've pulled out of Mo in the last 6 months, you'd think he ate the cat. Everyone at the office knows I have a cat, if you wear black AT ALL it's unavoidable that you'll come to work with fur on you. So, I'm tolerant and adaptable, but if a dog sheds less than a domestic short hair or two, that would be a bonus. If he sheds more, then I might reconsider.

 

Ooh, one other thing, he's got to do well in the paddock at a racetrack, and be okay by himself for a half hour while I'm on course. At least once a year, I'll take my car out for some high speed driving on one of California's road courses, and I'll probably want to take him with me. :-) Usually there's an hour of downtime between sessions so he'd end up spending more time with me on those days than usual, but I have a canopy for him to hang out under, and tons of water. I bet that would be fine for a BC used to city life, what with motorcycles driving by on a normal day.

 

Thanks for all the great tips all. And if I've read 10 pages of the forums here, I'm not against reading short essays from anyone with advice or tips.

[SoloRiver]

I had two Border Collies in downtown Philadelphia, moved to the middle of San Francisco, and added a third. None of these dogs would be considered particularly mellow examples of the breed except for my first (in certain contexts), but he's also crazy so that kind of negates the mellowness. I lived in studio apartments, and did not have a yard. So obviously it can be done, but it takes a lot of work.

 

I think the key to success with Border Collies is that you have to really like dogs. Not in the sense that you want to have a pet, but that you REALLY like dogs to the extent that most of your leisure activities either revolve around or include the dog. Most Border Collies are not really happy just "hanging out" with you unless you live a very active lifestyle and do things that engage their minds as well as their bodies. My dogs will all chase balls (we don't do Frisbees) but if that's all I did with them they'd still be bored stiff. Remember, these are dogs that are intended to use their brains and make independent decisions while working at a physically demanding task in concert with a human handler -- herding. Just chasing something and returning it is not mentally taxing, so even though it sounds like you would provide lots of physical exercise be sure that you are interested in training as well -- trick training, obedience training, dog sports, herding, whatever. That would be a good topic to read up on while you are researching dogs. Where you live, there are a lot of good opportunities to get involved in training and dog sports.

 

As far as the shedding bit -- Border Collies are fairly large dogs (averaging 35-45 pounds) and therefore will make an impact on your home environment that you may or may not find acceptable. Being active dogs, there is the potential for tracking dirt into the house. They do shed, not as much as a husky would but it will definitely be noticeable to you. Even the smooth coated (short haired) dogs will shed quite a bit at certain times of the year. My three dogs and I moved into a single-family home with a yard last year and although there is now a lot more living space the situation has actually gotten worse, because I still have to vacuum just as often (I try to vacuum three times a week, because I really don't like living in a dirty house) and there's now a lot more space to take care of. (ETA: one average Border Collie definitely sheds more than one cat.)

 

As far as living space, my dogs are almost always in whatever room I am in so I don't think they care one way or another how big the apartment/house is.

 

I would definitely recommend a young adult acquired through rescue. You'll have a better chance of getting a dog that is tempermentally suited to you and that is old enough to begin disc training right away. If you got a pup you'd have to wait at least 18 months, two years would be better, before regularly exposing his/her bones to any sort of regular jumping or impacts. You may want to try fostering some Border Collies for rescue before adopting one, so you can know for sure if the breed is for you.

 

Good luck!

[OurBoys]

You really do need to clarify this.

 

While you can have a nice home and pets too, it takes a little more work. Hair is a reality. You learn to vacumn or ignore, but I can assure you that the ignoring will er...build up.

Yep, you need to ask yourself how much shedding is too much. For the most part, an excellent diet will cut back, but not eliminate, the shedding. Our JJ (the one on the far left in my signature) still sheds due to his double undercoat. He also can't take the heat like the other 2 can. With that said, you should still be able to find a rescue easily who doesn't have the extra thick coat but there's still going to be some shedding nevertheless. Just something to think about.

 

Border collies are very people-oriented. IMO, they bond quicker and harder to the people who work them even more mentally than physically. (Ok, this is true with all breeds but this is a border collie forum. ) I'm not saying don't work him/her physically; I'm just saying don't forget the mental part of training.

 

Welcome to the boards and thank you for doing your research!!

[nancy]

Where are you in Silicon Valley? My daughter spent several years in Sunnyvale. That part of the valley is no where near as urban as some folks might think. The whole valley strikes me as way more suburban than urban. Yeah, I know that lots sizes are measured in square feet, not acres. Sounds like you have a huge front yard - for the valley.

 

If you're concerned with shedding, look for a smooth-coated border collie. Our Fergie sheds way less than short-haired cat. It's not the classic (Babe) look. But we see a lot of them on one of our favorite Brit downloads: Come Bye - the UK sheepdog trials.

 

I think you are a really neat person to start your research 2 years before you plan to get a dog. I just know that, in 2011, you will make the right decision and have a wonderful canine relationship! Stick around here.

[Debbie Meier]

By 2011 Mo will have choked on a hair ball and died so you won't have to worry about a border collie herding him all over the house accidently playing hocky with him...

 

Deb

[juliepoudrier]

My smooth coats are as bad as my rough coats when it comes to shedding, and in some cases worse (it's an individual thing). They all shed, so getting a smooth coat won't guarantee less hair (at least tell that to Pip and Twist, who shed rather a lot, and Willow, who has tons of undercoat). I suppose if you go through a rescue, they could find you a dog who sheds *relatively* less, but there's no way my border collies (with the exception of perhaps one) shed less than my cats.... I vacuum as much as I can and learned to live with a bit (or more) of hair.

 

J.

[SoloRiver]

Yep. I have one semi-smooth and she sheds just as much as the others. Actually, the dog who looks like she has the least hair, Jett, sheds the most.

 

If you seriously cannot abide shed hair, I am afraid you would be better off with another breed.

[Brad]

For shedding, I'm kind of uptight about my house being nice, and really, the extra fluffy dog that builds up over a week or so doesn't bother me. Again, all hard wood, so a quick vacuum once a week keeps the place clean. Both my dogs were taught to come in the door, sit, offer both paws for wiping, stand up, walk between my legs and stop for the back feet cleaning, so rarely do I get muddy foot prints thru the house. I used to have an Akita years ago, and compared to him, the BC shedding is nothing. Certainly not a reason to not get a BC.

[agilityrunningdogs]

On the shedding point;

 

My rough coat, Mal, honestly hardly ever sheds. He has a good thick coat, but for the most part he keeps it on his body. Granted, if I ran a brush through him, I'm going to get some strands, but not near as much as what I had feared. My two shorthair cats on the other hand...

 

It's just another reason to go through rescue, they can pretty much tell you everything you want to know about the dog before you bring him home, including his shedding level. Personally, I have noticed that smooth coats shed more, but maybe not.

 

Good luck! I hope you find a great companion no matter the breed.

[Alaska]

I suggest that you find some disc dog folks and hang out with them. Find a club or an event, drop in, and strike up some conversations. You'll find out what the lifestyle is like, pro and con, and what dogs work for them. Go visit their houses and see how much hair they put up with, if that's an issue for you. Plus, they'll likely be able to steer you to, or at least help you evaluate, potential dogs when the time comes. Border collies can be great disc dogs but they're by no means the only type of dog you should be considering.

 

The internet is an okay resource but it's no substitute for the real thing, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with dogs at this point.

 

(Re your subtitle: you'll find it's more like "being owned by a border collie." Border collies don't much resemble possessions. )

[WildFlower]

I think the key to success with Border Collies is that you have to really like dogs. Not in the sense that you want to have a pet, but that you REALLY like dogs to the extent that most of your leisure activities either revolve around or include the dog. Most Border Collies are not really happy just "hanging out" with you unless you live a very active lifestyle and do things that engage their minds as well as their bodies.

 

I think that you hit the nail on the head with this point, Melanie. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

I live in the city, small house, small yard, small car. You can most certainly have a BC in an urban setting. I take Daisy everywhere that it is safe for me to do so and try to expose her to as many new experiences as possible. She has no problem with traffic, airplanes (since we live in the flight path for an airport), kids on bikes, neighbors out in their yard, garbage trucks in the alley, etc. We went to a couple obedience classes, tried our hand/paw at agility for a bit, and settled on stock work lessons for our main activity togther. Daisy and I walk everyday twice a day - rain, sun, snow, sleet. She also goes to day camp every Wednesday to break up her week in the house while I am at work. She has never damaged anything in the house while l am at work. I think another important point that was made by someone was that having a routine with your BC is important. I find that this is very true.

 

Kudos to you for doing your research and best of luck to you in your search!

[Carson Crazies]

As for the hair factor... I tell my (very few) non-dog friends & relatives that my carpet is a special mohair carpet. "Oh no, that's not piles of dog hair, it's a special new innovative Mohair Carpeting". "What? That on the wall? That's not mud, that's creative decorational splattering".

[SeanBlader]

The only thing I insist in keeping clean is my car's interior, so I'll probably get a towel or blanket or seat cover, but as long as I don't come home and find doggie hair all over my computer chair, then I'm probably fine. Again with the robot to do the carpet cleaning, I just have to clean out his brushes every few days.

 

I'll definitely hook up and meet some BC's at local events. Looks like there's a pretty good group of owners here in Northern California, so I should get plenty of opportunities to learn in person.

[BustopherJones]

I live in a 3 story (bottom floor is a 2 car garage) townhouse

I would restrict my frisbee training to ground level; while Border Collies will gladly chase a frisbee out a third-story window, it is not conducive to their well-being.

 

my car is a two seater

DW has a full sized sedan, but Annie still insists in riding in the front passenger seat. (And before anyone goes ballistic, Annie rides with a harness attached to the seat belt, and the air bag will not deploy on the passenger's side unless sufficient weight is present; Annie ain't that heavy.) In my pick-up truck, Annie rides in either the passenger seat or in the jump seat behind me (she prefers the passenger seat).

 

Now on a more serious note: As has already been mentioned, you are thoughtful and doing your homework, so that is a good sign. While you have a small yard, I presume you have access to an area where you can hone your and your dog's frisbee skills. There is one thing you should keep in mind: Border Collies make great frisbee dogs, but not all Border Collies are interested in frisbees. The added virtue in getting a BC from rescue lies in the fact that, in addition to giving a loving home to a dog that needs one, you can judge in advance whether the more adult dog will be consistent with your expectations.

 

As far as shedding goes, Annie is a rough coat BC with two layers of fur. She does shed; but we keep it under control by grooming her weekly with an undercoat rake, then a grooming tool. I vacuum the house weekly, and we keep the loose fur pretty much under control. (Don't forget to vacuum the dog's bed at the same time that you vacuum the floors.) I would recommend a pet hair vacuum; Dyson makes a great one, but they are pricey.