NSDR

[jdarling]

The National Stock Dog Registry

 

"The Parent Registry for the Australian Shepherd since 1956"

 

Sounds fabulous, doesn't it?

 

Now check this out: Best of Breed Aussie Ranch

 

The sire, Asa, is out of Stahl's Border Collies in Tennessee. The female is a CKC (Continental Kennel Club) registered Australian Shepherd.

 

HERE is one of the ads for the mutt puppies.

 

After several emails back and forth with the owner of these crossbred mutts, and determining that her only reason for crossbreeding is because her son got bit by a rescue dog, so they are crossing the "best temperaments" (neither dog works stock) to create the next generation of pets with excellent temperaments (no, they don't even hip or eye check either), I called the NSDR to find out about how and why they are registering crossbreeds. The example I used was the ABCA Sire to the CKC Aussie Dam.

 

Here is what they told me.

 

1. They do not recommend crossbreeding.

2. They do not recognize the Continental Kennel Club.

3. They do recognize the ABCA, but in order for the breeder to have their Border Collie registered with the NSDR (the parent club for the Australian Shepherd), it would cost $100.

4. In order to register the CKC registered Australian Shepherd with the NSDR, it would cost $150 (the extra $50, I guess, is because they don't recognize the CKC unless the fee is high enough).

5. The crossbred puppies would then be $40 PER PUP.

6. The puppies would then be registered, not in the regular NSDR database, but in a "special" category called the "Great American Stockdog" category.

 

So, for as much as the NSDR is trying to claim they are a working dog registry, you will see that the almighty dollar has gotten to them as well -- not only by their feigned reluctance to register crossbreeds (unless the fee is high enough), but also by their willingness to register miniature and toy Aussies.

 

Sick, isn't it?

 

People actually fall for this! Amazing.

 

Jodi

[hsnrs]

NSDR was the first registry before ASCA. Our Keesha is NSDR and ASCA registered. Our Misty is ASCA. Alfie and Sam are both ASCA and AKC. We sell our pups for $350 to insure good homes. Not sure why these mutts are worth what they are asking. We also do OFA and CERF testing on our dogs. N

[bcnewe2]

N

Why do you breed your pups? Aren't you new to stockdog training? Do people do other stuff with Aussies that would be worth breeding for? just curious.

[desertranger]

NSDR was the first registry before ASCA. Our Keesha is NSDR and ASCA registered. Our Misty is ASCA. Alfie and Sam are both ASCA and AKC. We sell our pups for $350 to insure good homes. Not sure why these mutts are worth what they are asking. We also do OFA and CERF testing on our dogs. N

My dogs have always been registered with the Internatonal sheepdog society and the Royal Kennel Club. Jin although from a papered family is not registered. I tried to register a pair of RKC Bordercollies with the AKC once ans was told that Surra was too bug and that tri was not acceptable and that Glyniss was too small and her ears wern't right.

 

Lessee. Ear's not right. *looks* 1,2 both there, looks right to me.

 

 

We sell our pups for $350 to insure good homes.

 

That's the price for an Aussie?. We've always sold BC pups for $500+US We also had an extensive interview process to ensure the pups got a good homes with a stipulation that if they ever had to get rid of the dog we would take it back. Only one dog ever came back. The owner just wanted a good looking dog. Her BC was too much for her so we took her back and found her another home.

 

BTW, We have always had that stipulation in the sales contract. No refund but we will take an unwanted BC back.

[jdarling]

My dogs have always been registered with the International sheepdog society and the Royal Kennel Club.

 

What's the Royal Kennel Club? I did a search and didn't come up with much.

 

Is there any place in or around Palm Springs to work livestock?

[Sue R]

HERE is one of the ads for the mutt puppies.

 

People actually fall for this! Amazing.

You must have missed the point - these are "rare NSDR hybrid Australian Shepherd/Border Collie" puppies. Hybridization is a good thing, correct? That's an improvement on dogs, not a "mutt", right? Wrong.

 

There's a sucker born every day, and more than one from the sounds of things on the puppy page, looking at how many of these little gems have already been sold. These pups are outrageously priced, based on coat color, white markings, and eye color. Sort of like a shopping list - a price for the coat color, a price for the extensiveness of the white (full white chest worth more than less-full white chest), and each blue eye is added "value".

 

There are too many people that breed dogs when they shouldn't be doing so, and there are people on these boards that are not immune from that statement, sad to say.

 

I don't know how to do the head-banging emoticon but I could use it now.

[bcnewe2]

[and each blue eye is added "value"./quote]

 

So if's that's the case, then a 3 eyed dog would be.....priceless???

 

I'll head bang right along with you Sue.

[juliepoudrier]

Sue and Kristen,

Here ya go!

 

 

There are too many people that breed dogs when they shouldn't be doing so, and there are people on these boards that are not immune from that statement, sad to say.

 

Amen.

 

J.

[bcnewe2]

Thanks Julie

I feel better now!

I know people have the right to do anything they want but it amazes me that some can take all this knowledge and pretend they are not the ones that need it. You know, it's for the "other" people. Personally I'd be embarrased, but STM they really don't get it.

 

BTW....if the shoe fits anyone here, wear it proud. Don't defend why. Just put it on.

 

OK....back to banging my head.

[jdarling]

I just went back to the website, and was looking at the main page, where she tells a big old story about her dad and "the breed" (speaking of the Australian Shepherd) and she says:

 

"After months of searching for just the right pair we purchased Creek (a very rare double blue eyed tri stud out of Wanagi Ishna) and Siren (another rare blue eyed tri female)."

 

Then she says:

 

"Breeding healthy and sound Australian Shepherds is a science and should not be taken lightly; due to the complexity of their genetic make-up prospective buyers should only purchase from serious and committed breeders."

 

So mixing them with Border Collies is the magic recipe?????

[juliepoudrier]

Rather than worry about the mix (bad enough, though my first dog was a border collie x Australian shepherd, and designer crossbreeds are apparently here to stay), I'd be inclined to wonder what other unique genetics those very rare color choices also carry and can pass on to the offspring. I'd wonder if doubling up on those rare blue-eyed tri genetics might also bring forward other genes that could be deleterious on down the line.

 

J.

[jdarling]

Holy good grief! I just looked at the PUPPY PAGE.

 

This is way scary.

 

#3 Female

Red Merle

Full Collar

Full White Forequarters

Double Blue Eyes

Full Registration $1550.00

Pet Only $1300.00

SOLD

 

No blue eyes = $950 for "full registration" and $700 for "pet only"

One blue eye = $1000 for "full registration" and $900 for "pet only"

But two blue eyes ...

 

That's $1550 for "full registration" and $1300 for "pet only" ...

 

And this one is SOLD!

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

 

"Full registration"???? WHAT registration? "Pet only"???? As opposed to WHAT? A SHOW dog? Since when can you show a MUTT?

 

What are people thinking? Where do people THIS stupid exist?

[Sue R]

Where do people THIS stupid exist?

 

Not only in America. Head-banging barely begins to cover it. However, having been (and still being, sometimes) one of the easily guiled, maybe I should keep my mouth shut. At least I've never paid big bucks for "fancies". How many of those "full registration" purchasers will go their merry way and breed their "rare hybrid" candy-colored little darlings? Poor pups...

[MaryP]

What are people thinking? Where do people THIS stupid exist?

 

Oh, this sort of thing is rampant, unfortunately. A woman that I do agility with is about to have an oops litter (a mother x son breeding). As she was telling me this, she was pondering what she should charge for the puppies. She decided that she probably could not charge her regular $1,500 fee, so she figured she might have to drop the price back to $1,000. Oh, and I have no doubt that she'll find willing buyers.

[doggietrio]

While it's true that the NSDR was one of the original registries for the Aussie, it is no longer used by most reputable Aussie breeders today.

 

As to the question re: breeding Aussies for anything other than stockwork...that's a big debate in our community.

 

The Aussie is no longer a pure stock dog breed. Yes, there are kennels that supply amazing stock dogs who are guaranteed to work, but...they are in the minority.

 

So, breeding Aussies for non-stock purposes is the majority of breeding.

 

Granted, I do not have working Aussies, so my opinion may vary.

 

Jennifer Akins

Trowbridge, CA

[OurBoys]

Wow! When I got Josie from Craig's List, I thought I was just getting a scared mixed breed 6 month old pup that was getting past around. Little did I know she was a "rare hybrid". And to think, I got her for free.

 

Seriously though, this turns my stomach. What some people will do to make a buck.

[hsnrs]

We do work our dogs on stock. The pups have all gone to good homes some who do agility also. Not my cup of tea but to each his own. N

[juliepoudrier]

Narita,

You probably already know this, but for other potential breeders who might be reading I want to point out that simply working your dog on livestock doesn't make it worthy of breeding. Sure, it's better than not ever working the dog, but really when one is considering breeding a working dog, one should have proven that dog to a pretty high standard (which means something other than just very basic farm chores) and should be able to discuss logically the dog's strengths and weaknesses when working and also be able to explain why a particular cross would be expected to improve on the parent's generation (that is, what the sire and dam both bring to the breeding and how you expect the them to complement one another--if you have made thoughtful choices then you should even be able to tell potential puppy buyers what kind of work they could expect from their pup). In other words, there's a lot more to it than just saying "I work my dog on stock." I don't think anyone is really qualified to create working-bred litters if you can't do the above. If I'm buying a working-bred pup from you (the generic you), I expect you to be able to tell me the things I outlined above. Your dog doesn't have to be a National Finals champion, but I would want some proof of ability or you would have to be so darned experienced with dogs and stockwork that I'd take your word at face value (this holds for the Tommy Wilsons, Bill Berhows, Alasdair MacRaes, John Thomases, etc. of the world, but not for most of us).

 

J.

[Debbie Meier]

To my knowledge there is not a single dog registery that rejects applications or papers based on lack of working ability. They are all breed registries, not working dog registries. IMO to be a true working dog registry there needs to be a willingness to deregister for lack of working ability or offer a temporary set of papers until working ability is proven. A registery as such should be open to any dog that has working ability regardless of the breed unless they designate a specific breed such as ABCA, they could have pure bred designations but then also cross bred designations, such as NSDR. The criteria for registration and maintaining full papers is working ability not regal pedigree, IMO that is what AKC, it does not matter what the dog does, it just needs to fit the breed standard as dictated by the pedigree.

 

The catch is deregistration or rather the "Standard" that needs to be established. In order to deregister based on the lack of working ability you have to test for working ability and that seems to be a sticking point. The alternative is to leave the registration decisions to the breeders, if they feel their pups deserve papers you allow them in, which is what we basically have now. If you don't want tests and titles then it's up to the breeders to ensure that a registery remains a "working registry" as opposed to evolving into a registry of pedigree or breed as breeders and owners fail to evaluate the working ability of their dogs.

 

I was reading somewhere (I don't remember where) that at one point that the breeders that registered their dogs with ISDS did not register every pup in a litter, they only registered the ones that they thought would grow up to be good working dogs, basically their "Picks". Just that act alone would concentrate the gene pool weighing it toward solid working lines, if what I read was true then the breeders were keeping the ISDS as a true working dog registry. If they found later on that a dog that they opted to not register should have been could they have then ROM'ed back into the registry?

 

I was just thinking about the ABCA's non breeding option, if a dog is registered as non breeding and then is later proven to be a great working dog can that dog then get it breeding papers via the ROM program? If not, making that change would encourage breeders to issue non breeding papers on any pups that they do not select for themselves and would then encourage buyers to prove their dogs if they want to eventually breed.

 

Deb

[ziggzmom]

I tried to register a pair of RKC Bordercollies with the AKC once ans was told that Surra was too bug and that tri was not acceptable and that Glyniss was too small and her ears wern't right.

 

 

Desertranger,

 

Whoever at the AKC told you that tri wasn't an acceptable color was totally wrong! All three of my bc's are black tri and all are registered with AKC. One of which is a rescue so he is ILP'd....Never had a problem registering any them due to their color, the size of the dog or their ears not being right....

 

Janet

[Jumpin Boots]

One of which is a rescue so he is ILP'd....Never had a problem registering any them due to their color, the size of the dog or their ears not being right....

 

Janet

 

Janet-

Before I knew better and became educated in the working dog versus akc beliefs I tried to ILP one of my dogs with akc. I train w/ people who mainly compete in akc events and the thought of going to my first agility trial alone was scary, but I survived and have met awesome people because of it. I didn't think I would have a problem ILPing my dog, I had seen one ILPed bc that looked more like a huge dalmation w/ scruffy hair, so I sent my forms in with full confidence. Well I did get rejected, the only thing I can think is it's because of his coat, which how you would determine that from a photo, I'm not sure. Since than I have known people who have tried to ILP their dogs, bc and other breeds, some have no problems with dogs that don't seem to meet breed standards and others have issues w/ those who do. So my thought on the whole process is it is subjective depending on who's desk the application lands on.

 

Julie

[Sue R]

So my thought on the whole process is it is subjective depending on who's desk the application lands on.

 

Julie

Absolutely. This has been the experience of people that I have heard from also.

[MaryP]

So my thought on the whole process is it is subjective depending on who's desk the application lands on.

 

This is what makes it so silly, IMO. I mean, if you know that some ILP'd dogs are going to, in fact, be mixes (which many of them are), then why not just open it up to all mixed breed dogs?

 

Don't answer that; it's rhetorical.

[NRhodes]

To my knowledge there is not a single dog registery that rejects applications or papers based on lack of working ability. ...............

Deb

 

 

The Hangin' Tree Cowdog registry is a working registry. Pups born out of registered parents get appendix papers. When they can work cattle and will bite head and heel they can get permanent papers. There are problems with the method, biting does not necessarily mean working but I guess at least the dog went to cattle. Better than nothing anyway. The trouble with having a working registry is that 'work' is very subjective. What one person may consider working... well......

[Little Bo Boop]

Did I read somewhere that in order to be reg. as a Hangin' Tree cowdog, that your dog had to have a docked tail? I thought that a rather odd requirement for a stockdog reg.

 

Betty