"There"

[jdarling]

How do you use the term "there" when working your dogs? Does it mean stop flanking and turn into your sheep and continue walking up? Does it mean stop flanking and turn into your sheep and stop? Do you use it to mean stop right there wherever you are? What does it mean to you?

[Bo Peep]

For me- now that I'm not an idiot- it means "stand your ground and walk up". Always learning.

Would love to here different answers.

Dianne

[Amelia]

Hello all,

 

to me it means; stop flanking or running out right "there," turn in and walk up on your stock. simple, useful, easy to teach and I have a whistle for it.

 

cheers all,

[Journey]

"There" in my vocabulary for them means to stop and either walk in or lie down - depends on the situation. It's generally followed up immediately with either a "steady" for them to walk up where they are or a lie down if we're not going anywhere.

[Sue R]

For me, it means to turn in towards the stock and walk up, without a down or stop unless I say so or the situation demands it.

 

I have heard "there now" to mean something like a "slow down, steady, listen" from a trainer that doesn't seem to use "there" as described here at all.

[MickeyDogs]

For the dog I have now it's stop the flank, turn in to the sheep and walk up. If I had a pushy dog it would be stop the flank, turn in to the sheep and stop.

[juliepoudrier]

As others have said, "there" to me and my dogs means stop the flank and turn in and walk up right there. f I want a lie down after the dog turns in, I give a lie down command; otherwise, the dog should continue moving toward its sheep.

 

J.

[jdarling]

Thanks everyone. From what I am hearing quite a bit lately, people use "there" as just a stop. So my question was going to be ... if "there" is stop, how do you ask the dog to just turn in and walk up without giving the dog more commands? Is "there" as a stop more of an upright breed thing? Anyone know?

[1sheepdoggal]

For me it means also to walk up straight on the stock, but to hold a straight line and drive on. There, right there, walk up and dont deviate from the line. Drive straight. For my dogs, it is a different command than just saying walk up. It tells them to hold the line.

[bcnewe2]

For us it's turn in right there and keep the line from that point. If they need more than that for directions I would continue with another whistle. For Mick being a bit sticky I usually have to put a walk up after that but for Dew, not so much.

[Debbie Meier]

Thanks everyone. From what I am hearing quite a bit lately, people use "there" as just a stop. So my question was going to be ... if "there" is stop, how do you ask the dog to just turn in and walk up without giving the dog more commands? Is "there" as a stop more of an upright breed thing? Anyone know?

 

If you would have asked last year I would have said "There" was just a stop in your tracks, but that was where my dog was in his training, as he got the concept of stopping with a "There" command my trainer had me evolved it into a clutch signalling the end of the flank and designating the line for the walk up or drive, I would give him a "There, Walk Up". Now if I give him a "There" he stops flanking and starts his drive, I've pretty much dropped the "walk up" unless he needs encouragement. As I'm working with my young pups I'm using the "There" as just a stop again. If someone was to watch me work a dog, depending on the level of dog they would see two different applications of the command. In essence "There" is a stop, the stop of the flank.

 

Did that make sense? It's late.

 

Deb

[Bo Peep]

You have learned some great advice- me, too. I realize my trainer has been doing the correct "there" command.

Our whistle is same as a stop- mine are very loud- trying to work on that. He uses his mouth and is quiet- thus making the dog respond on much lighter terms. Me, I have always yelled and have tried to stop that. Always working. I hope some day Usher will be a trial dog, if not- we enjoy our lessons and if you read our blog, he is coming around nicely.

I should have to tell you- I have learned so much more than I "thought" I knew.

Wish I had lower ceilings and could change my bulb. Working in the dark here- LOL.

As always-

Dianne

[jdarling]

Thanks Deb. Yes, that makes sense. That's probably what I'm seeing with a couple of people that train upright breeds. Working dogs that tend to have a bit more eye than most, I find myself kicking them out more than asking them in, so I guess I never really thought about it. A friend of mine that I practice with works her Kelpie mix (more "mix" than anything - upright, very little eye) with an all-breed trainer, and she was using, "there ... stop!" (dog would stop / stand) and eventually she dropped the "stop." So now she has turned that into "there ... (dog stops) ... walk up." I recently saw someone else using "there" as more of a stop, and wondered if people used it differently. But from the looks of this thread, it seems to be more of an upright / temporary crutch / mechanical thing.

 

Jodi

[DTrain]

There is a little different to each of my dogs but I use it when I want the dogs to take a position on the stock and move on them. To my oldest dog it is almost a stop followed by a walk-up. To my best dog it is a turn into the stock without a stop and he generally looks for his balance point and takes a position to move the stock. If I repeat the word it generally slows him down. I find if I do not use the word he will generally pick the spot for himself. To my youngest dog who is training it is " there what, where, when ".

[Debbie Meier]

But from the looks of this thread, it seems to be more of an upright / temporary crutch / mechanical thing.

 

Depending on how it is used I don't know that I would call it a crutch or mechanical, it's a way to break the requirements into smaller pieces. I look at it like making the dog stop at the top of an out run, to make sure you get that pause, hesitation or pressure change in just before the lift as opposed to the dog thinking that you want them to just blow in, or ending up with a flank that slices and turns into a walk up. Depending on how you interperet a flank, if you look at a flank as basically an outrun at hand, then the end should be the same, by making sure your flanks end clean you don't have to go back and fix your outrun.

 

When I first trained with an aussie trainer he used "There" to mark a block with the stock stick, he would mechanically change the dogs direction, wihile leading the sheep, before the dog got two far around on the wear with the stock stick, labelling it with a "there" so that eventually he could just say "There" to control the dogs wear back and forth, to me that's a mechanical application, if he did not say "There" the dog would end up spinning a circle around the stock. He would use a "Uhhh, get back" to reset distance, because the dog would just keep getting closer and closer. Too much work for me, and I'm not willing to work with a dog that has to be amped up and slapped shot around in an attempt to show their owners that they can be herding dogs. When he tried to apply his program to my Cattle Dogs they got kinda aggressive with him, they took offense to being handled that way. They would even lay in wait for him when he wasn't working with them, his training was not about the stock, it was all about him and the dog, the stock was just a pawn in the game. Buffy used to try to work for him but literally would spit, almost like a short hissy spat, letting him know it was under protest, and would try to drag him into her kennel via his coveralls if he got to close as he walked by.

 

Sorry to go off subject, but one afternoon Wayne was using Buf to sort sheep in the barn, he had sent her to bring a group forward as the aussie trainer entered the alley inbetween the sheep and Wayne, when Buffy brought the sheep through she proceeded to heel him trying to keep him with the sheep, she treated the sheep better then that trainer. Wayne about busted a gut laughing, it actually brought tears to his eyes. We finally listened to our dogs and found a new trainer.

 

Deb