Elizabeth77 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Well the weather here has been rotten, not the snow so many of you have but wet, wet wet. This has limited the places I can take Meg for runs. So I was doing lots of ball throwing around my garden which is quite big. There was also lots of bending involved for my not very young back! So today I got hold of an old tennis raquet so I could pick the ball up with more ease and send it further. Meg was terrified she literally shook and ran into the house. It was not nice to see. I put the raquet on the floor , got some favourite treats and sat down myself with her. Lots of cuddles were given by me as she sat trembling. After a time I broke up some treats and put them on the floor near the raquet. She crept in and took them. Much later I put some on the strings of the raquet and she took them. But if I moved the raq. she retreated. Now I need help please to hear if I am doing the right thing or is there a better approach. I can only think that at some stage she must have been hit with something ressembling the raq. It is awful to see your dog shaking with nerves. Thank you. Oh I should say that after that she came out with me and chased the ball when I threw it from my hand and now she seems back to her old self. I have left the raq. on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 My dogs get nervous about some of the strangest things. You are probably doing the right thing leaving the raquet for Meg to become aquainted with. Don't push her, let her figure it out. However, she may not. My middle dog freaks out when I wear certain cloths such as a scarf over my face when it is cold. I expect he wants to see my face. We did get him when he was two so we really have no idea how his life went especially associating with people prior. I have decided not to push him. It took me a long time to develop a great relationship with this dog and I don't want to do anything to wreck it. You may be forced to go back to throwing the ball for Meg. You could also try a soft frisbee. It is much easier to throw and if Meg gets on to it, it will be a lot of fun. My guys love ball but they would rather play frisbee anytime. Have Fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 One thing you shouldn't have done is coddle her and feed her treats while she is acting afraid of something. It's difficult not to do, because as humans we want to be comforted when we are afraid, but to a dog the "comforting" is acting as reinforcement that there really is something to be scared of, and kind of fueling the fear. If Meg acts afraid of something that she really shouldn't be, the best thing you can do is just go about your business as if there is no big deal and she's just being silly. Then at a later time, slowly re-introduce her to the object just as you were doing with treats and lots of positive associations, but go about it in a matter of fact way, still acting as if there is no big deal and not reinforcing any fear she might show. You may want to try a "Chuck-it"--it's a device sold in pet stores for launching tennis balls farther, but smaller than a tennis raquet. Maybe she wouldn't be afraid of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 That would really be nothing new in our house! Daisy is quite reactive and new things set her off, like you wouldn't believe. She has a special hatred for a purple sombrero I have...(don't ask!). Anyway, I have taught her to "target" objects with her nose. I first started with her touching peoples hands and graduated it up to objects, then foreign objects. It works like a dream. Usually if there is a "new" thing in our house that she doesn't like, I will sit on the floor with it and her and c/t her for coming close and being around it. Once she seems fairly ok with being near the strange object, I will say "touch" and point to it with my finger. The first couple times she will target my finger, but once she gains a bit more confidence, she will freely touch the object. Fear is gone! I think teaching a behaviour like that can help the dog forget it's afraid, because they are concentrating more on "doing a job" than being scared of the unknown. Also, for the sympathy of your back, have you ever heard of a chuck-it? They are fantastic! http://www.caninehardware.com/products/chuckit/chuckit.html good luck! julie ETA: Looks like Ninso and I were posting at the same time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Both my girls are skittish around new things, always have been. Samantha wouldn't come to me when I wore a tiara into the house once. You've gotten good advice for getting her used to it. You can use the same kind of low key, it's no big deal approach the next time she gets worried. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack & Co. Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Also, for the sympathy of your back, have you ever heard of a chuck-it? They are fantastic! http://www.caninehardware.com/products/chuckit/chuckit.html good luck! julie ETA: Looks like Ninso and I were posting at the same time! We can't get along without our Chuck-it!! Greatest invention ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 We can't get along without our Chuck-it!! Greatest invention ever! I totally agree! Maybe it is the noise that hitting a ball with a racket makes. The chuck-its are so quiet and fantastic when you can't throw very far, like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 One thing you shouldn't have done is coddle her and feed her treats while she is acting afraid of something. It's difficult not to do, because as humans we want to be comforted when we are afraid, but to a dog the "comforting" is acting as reinforcement that there really is something to be scared of, and kind of fueling the fear. Actually, my own experience is a clicker approach can be very helpful with this sort of fear but I would break it down more so at the beginning she didn't need to go so close to the racket to get her treats. But I would pair the sight of the racquet with treats or even meal times. I do think it is important to keep a light, breezy attitude but I've never found feeding dogs to reinforce their fear. At least not my insanely food driven dogs. I second the suggestion of the Chuck-It. That is a brilliant invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Actually, my own experience is a clicker approach can be very helpful with this sort of fear but I would break it down more so at the beginning she didn't need to go so close to the racket to get her treats. I wasn't suggesting she shouldn't use a clicker approach with treats. I was responding more to this line: Lots of cuddles were given by me as she sat trembling. I think that could be quite reinforcing. Lok once developed a fear of going up my wood stairs after slipping once. Not thinking, I began to baby him, talk to him in a high voice "come on puppy, it's ok" etc., and act like it was some super-scary thing and he just got worse. I realized my mistake and stopped doing it, not saying anything to him as he went up the stairs, ignoring signs of fear, and he got over it in a day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I also use the "touch it" technique with Scooter on the rare occasion he gets spooked by something. Works beautifully. Sometimes, he even looks at me as if to say, "Is it okay?" If I shrug it off and say, "It's no big deal," he calms right down. They do look to us to see what our reaction is going to be and what theirs should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think that could be quite reinforcing. Lok once developed a fear of going up my wood stairs after slipping once. Not thinking, I began to baby him, talk to him in a high voice "come on puppy, it's ok" etc., and act like it was some super-scary thing and he just got worse. I realized my mistake and stopped doing it, not saying anything to him as he went up the stairs, ignoring signs of fear, and he got over it in a day! Depends on the dog. Way back before I knew different, I tried to make Speedy "tough it out" when he was seriously afraid of something. That made him worse. When I sat down on the floor next to him, put my hand on him, and just gave him a physical sign of support, he started to improve visually before my eyes. He did get over that particular fear entirely in due time. I'm a firm believer in comforting a fearful dog now. Of course, the dog must truly find it comforting. If the dog wants to hide, I let the dog hide. If the dog will accept petting, hugs, I give those. Sometimes it's just proximity, and sometimes it's just giving the dog permissiont to be afraid. Sometimes . . . and I kid you not . . . I find that playing music for the dog can help! One thing I don't do is the high voice. I have yet to meet a dog who actually likes it when I talk in a high pitched voice. I don't do it anymore. I don't ignore a fear response in a dog, but there are times when it is best to let the dog alone to work through it. I've found that I can usually tell if giving the dog space to work it out mentally would be beneficial, or if the dog needs some sign of support and comfort from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I put the raquet on the floor , got some favourite treats and sat down myself with her. Lots of cuddles were given by me as she sat trembling. After a time I broke up some treats and put them on the floor near the raquet. She crept in and took them. Much later I put some on the strings of the raquet and she took them. But if I moved the raq. she retreated. Now I need help please to hear if I am doing the right thing or is there a better approach. I think your approach is good, but you are moving much too fast. I would literally give her weeks to get more familiar with the racquet on the floor. I would set it near her food bowl while she eats (but don't try to touch it), have it sitting in the middle of the floor when she plays. I wouldn't make her interact with it - just have it around. After a week or so of that, I would start to reward her for approaching it. I would toss a treat near it when she approaches it, and then toss one away from the racquet, so she has to figure out that approaching the racquet is earning her the rewards. I would still not let her see me touch it at this point. Once she is comfortable with that, I might have it in my lap and play the same game. Once that is OK, I would set my hand on the racquet and play that way. It is entirely possible that at some point during this process, it will "click" that the racquet is a good thing and you might be able to start using it normally sooner than you think. But I would go slow and let her realize that choosing (on her own, not because you tell her!) to interact with the racquet is highly rewarding - and that she can always "escape" from it if it makes her uncomfortable. In the meantime, I'd just go back to tossing balls by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 One thing I don't do is the high voice. I have yet to meet a dog who actually likes it when I talk in a high pitched voice. I don't do it anymore. Interesting. What about for a dog who isn't stressed or frightened? I've used a high, squeaky voice with the Lhasa in obedience training when his attention wanders during heeling. Following a brief, very gentle collar shake (his flat collar is shook, not him), it gets him very pumped up, attentive and (I thought) happy. Maybe he's just annoyed and controlling his urge to bite me. I haven't tried that voice with my other dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Daisy gets very "tail waggy" and excited when I talk to her in a high-pitched tone. When we are in classes, this does not help her though. Usually the added stimulation for an already reactive dog makes her worse. I find, while we are in "school" and she is mildly distracted, whispering to her gets her focus and attention back on me. Maybe dogs are just as different as people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Interesting. What about for a dog who isn't stressed or frightened? I've used a high, squeaky voice with the Lhasa in obedience training when his attention wanders during heeling. Following a brief, very gentle collar shake (his flat collar is shook, not him), it gets him very pumped up, attentive and (I thought) happy. Maybe he's just annoyed and controlling his urge to bite me. I haven't tried that voice with my other dogs. Not even then. Maybe it's something about my particular "high voice", but my dogs don't like it. Sammie responds well to a "happy" voice - maybe with a slight increase in pitch, but even that makes Maddie and Dean suspicious or worried. Oh yeah - any increase in pitch would send Speedy toward overstimulation. I guess he doesn't dislike it, but keeping my tone encouraging, supportive, but even is second nature when I work with him. He doesn't need pumping up! With Dean and Maddie, I can pump them up and get them attentive by using a slightly lower pitch and do the "reeeeeaaady . . . reeeeeaaaaady . . ." thing. I can use almost a whisper and say something like "wanna play?" But the high pitch has the opposite effect with both of them. I see a lot of other people have great results with their dogs with the high pitched happy tone, so I know it's not the technique - it's just something with me and my dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth77 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just an update on my original post. I started to take the raquet out and just bouncing a ball on it totally ignoring Meg. At first she headed for the door but gradually came out and now 99% of time is fine with me hitting the ball for her with the raquet. She only gets nervous now if I swing the raquet as I am walking to fetch the ball. So great progress and it is so much easier for me to both pick up and hit the ball with the raquet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Both my girls are skittish around new things, always have been. Samantha wouldn't come to me when I wore a tiara into the house once. Sorry - just an aside here... Wha? I can't believe no one else picked up on this -- I never thought you were the tiara type of girl Ruth Do tell us more... Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well, if you must know. I had borrowed a tiara from a teen aged friend to wear to a wedding. I was the wedding fairy and I'm not making this up. I'd offered to stage manage a friend's wedding, and she really wanted a wedding fairy. So, I found an appropriate bridesmaid's dress at the second store, sewed little packets of jordan almonds all over the skirt, slapped the tiara on my head and walked around with my check list and a walkie talkie. It was a hit. There you have it. I'm a Leo and have a not so secret desire to become Empress of the Universe. The rhinestone tiara is as close as I'm likely to get. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 There you have it. I'm a Leo and have a not so secret desire to become Empress of the Universe. The rhinestone tiara is as close as I'm likely to get. Ruth, there's your sig line! Urge to Herd: Empress of the Universe. I like it. Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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