Ms.DaisyDuke Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I hate to tell you this, but as a parent who has raised two boys to adulthood, I can testify that it doesn't change much as they get older. And I'm sure DW would probably tell you (based on her experiences with me) that even senior citizenship does not alter the dynamic significantly... That's pretty much got me over the initial upset, boys = in one ear out the other. Now that I know they never grow out of it...i may trade in current bf for a newer modle kidding of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 That's pretty much got me over the initial upset, boys = in one ear out the other. Now that I know they never grow out of it...i may trade in current bf for a newer modle kidding of course Since Bustopher said it HIMself, I think its a GUY thing. But we knew that, right? And I'm not kidding!! LOL (I also have 2 grown boys and a DH) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Interesting thread talking about so-called "forced" doggy socialization. Several years ago Skye met an Aussie that was pretty into balls, just like her. It was before I understood about possible ball-dynamics among dogs and was making mistakes with bringing balls with us on our walks. Skye trotted over to her owner and dropped the ball, hoping he would throw it. The Aussie ran in to interecept the ball and all hell broke loose. Two dogs + equal ball possessiveness = fight. No harm, no foul except that it freaked me out. Since that time we meet the owner and dog every once in a while and I swear, every time, the man says to his dog, "Go play" or if Skye happens to have a ball (she's either found one or worlds have collided in that they meet on one of our more secluded walking places plus Skye has a ball), "Go get the ball". To which I always reply "No thanks, they don't get along". The poor Aussie, after that first incident, now makes a wide berth around Skye whenever they happen to meet, refusing to look at her, and appears quite ready to keep walking if only her owner would come along. The fact that a) he doesn't ever remember us or the "incident", or b.) he feels the need to get them to "make friends" or c) he wants the dog to do what HE wants rather than reading her body language and respecting her boundaries, never ceases to amaze and aggravate me. Now I know that this doesn't parallel Mary's incident but it sure did teach me a lot. Sometimes the signal is loud enough that it hits you in the face (clearly it missed hitting this man in his face ) but sometimes it is very subtle and often an instantaneous shift. So as a result of this I know that 1. Skye will be more receptive to playing with another dog when there is no possession involved (it could be as benign as a stick), 2. I can control this aspect of the situation by making sure there is no "possession" involved, by getting her to "leave" it. For us city people where parks and walking areas are heavily frequented by people and other dogs, this kind of doggy manners is a way of life. I would imagine that with people with working dogs that don't get socialized with strange dogs on a regular basis perhaps this kind of dilemma doesn't really enter the picture. Ailsa P.S. And Mary I think this should only be considered a minor set-back. Sounds to me like Buddy has progressed by leaps and bounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Two steps forward, one step back. At least Buddy is going forward. He's a rescue, isn't he? Puppies, are a huge PITA, I prefer adults, but they come with problems. Puppies, you have no one to blame but yourself and maybe breeding. "I" always blame myself for everything, so YOU stop doing that. I Buddy and yes.........I have 2 grown adult human males. They are getting better since they are both almost 30. It takes time for them to mature- LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 If all is well, this will be the first time in years that a true GI upset didn't signal a serious underlying issue (IBD) or the dog nearly dying (some mystery illness the Lhasa had last September). What a nice switch! Well Liz if I had those unfortunate things that I had to deal with it might make me a bit quicker to jump up and go too. In fact I do remember spending thousands of dollars on trying to "fix" Mick. Countless vets, countless diag. and finally a holistic vet. By the time he reached her he was pretty bad off about ready to be PTS for all his suffering. She didn't or wasn't able to daig. TBD's till after we had done allot of other things to try and help him. About 3 weeks with visits at least 2x's per week. I'd have gone to the moon and back to get him the help he needed. Once she figured it out a quick round of Doxy...well not so quick, and he finally started to recover. So I guess I have to take some of my statement back. If we needed it I'd be the first to jump in and cough up the money or at least a credit card! We recently had and issue with diarrhea and Raven. I was getting a bit worried after about 3 days of misery for her. I finally fasted her for a day and then found the evidence of 6 dollars worth of Beef Jerky that she ate and hid the wrapper under the bed. I find that fasting them will set their systems back on track unless there's an underlying cause and it's not something they found outside or stole from my son to eat. I try the fasting first but before that I let them go for a day or 2 unless they look like they are getting dehyrated. Something I think some people are not used to looking for or would feel more comfortable having a professional do. Hope that made sence. I don't think Beachdogz was really trying to put MBC in the catagory of keep your dangerous dogs at home, she got off track trying to say, it's not a big deal so move on. But I could wrong. isn't the first time, won't be the last! K~ ETA Somehow I wrote and posted this without reading the 2nd page of responces. Bustopher you are to funny! I think it takes a lifetime of training but I'm beginning to wonder. My middle daughter has a new BF....weell not new but not the daddy of her baby....he is the most awesome guy I've ever met. He's only 23 (she's 25) and he cleans house, cleans cars, fixes things and the best part of all...he's the best daddy I've ever had the pleasure of meeting and it's not his kid! So what's the deal, do you guys really know how to behave and are just being that way to keep us on our toes? Or is he a strange duck that she should run from??? Lots of good post here. Good learning for all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 and yes.........I have 2 grown adult human males. They are getting better since they are both almost 30. It takes time for them to mature- LOL. I HAVE TO WAIT TILL THEY'RE THIRTY???!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I HAVE TO WAIT TILL THEY'RE THIRTY???!!!! NO...my husbands 53 and I'm still waiting. It's a lifetime sentence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I don't think Beachdogz was really trying to put MBC in the catagory of keep your dangerous dogs at home, she got off track trying to say, it's not a big deal so move on. But I could wrong. oh, no...I certainly don't think mbc's dog is dangerous...just the opposite. I was trying to say it's not a big deal, so move on. In fact, I think it would be wrong to keep the dog at home. Best to keep taking the dog out and either making corrections or redirecting the dog, whichever suits the owner and the dog (in my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 NO...my husbands 53 and I'm still waiting. It's a lifetime sentence! Training is training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 This has turned into an interesting thread! Beachdogz - don't worry, I didn't read your post as any kind of questioning of my judgment. In fact, a lot of time people want my dog to be much more free to roam and meet than I let him be - because I know his triggers. I really don't think all dogs should socialize with all other dogs. On the other hand, though, Buddy does give out some pretty clear signals (and he was giving them out last night) that he particularly likes some other dogs. I don't know what the trigger is for loving or hating. But it's obvious to Buddy. And when he does meet a dog he loves, it brings him joy - he actually whines and whimpers with happiness when he sees some dogs that he loves. They can practically bite his ears off, and he'll just grin and play some more. That happiness is worth something to me. The thing is, I have to take a chance in the early meeting days and actually let Buddy off leash at some point. Last night, it was too soon, and the dog was too jumpy. Just a bad judgment of timing on my part. As for the injury, I agree with the woman's deciding to get antibiotics. At least in her point of view, it was a puncture wound worth worrying about. (Honestly, I didn't see anything but a little external mark, but I'm willing to take her word that she saw what she saw.) In fact, she called the clinic first and they advised her to go in immediately rather than waiting overnight. I think if it was my own dog, I would have taken him in, just to be on the safe side. A deep tissue infection is much more trouble than a 50-minute drive to the vet. My eighth grade young males were trying to kick themselves in the head today. I promised the girls that they had that sort of behavior to look forward to for a while. ::Sigh:: (Yes, last year I had Charlie M in class, and he could, indeed, kick himself in the head. It's quite impressive to 8th graders.) And thanks, BoPeep, for appreciating my dog long distance. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I had to post one more thing seriously... I really hate it when I say to strangers that my dogs are not that friendly and it's not a good idea that they let their dog off lead or allow it to come over and get in my dogs face. Then they respond that it would be good if my dogs could teach their dogs how to behave. I will not let this happen. My dogs do not go for blood but they go for ending the confrontation and it's not a pretty site. Scary for the guy that's never seen a good dog whooping. (not dog fight but right up there) Then I have to go though the whole mess of reinforcing that it's NEVER ok for my dogs to do that even if they think it is. They are not nice but I don't allow them to go around beating innocent dogs up either. I will take my dogs out in public any time I want. I know I can control my dogs if need be. I suggest that anyone with an obnixious puppy be very aware of other dogs taking it the wrong way. Keep working on it but don't trust the situation no matter what the other guy says. Unless you are an expert at reading dog language...don't take any chances. I will let my dogs teach my own puppies what's up with dog manners but that's because I'm there to intervine if need be. And I got no body to blame if things get out of control but myself. I do not frequent dog parks because I don't feel that I can control the other dogs (to many) so would rather not put my dogs in that situation. But would you believe I've had people at dog trials down here (AR) not big ones but backyard type play dates with sheep ask me to turn my nasty Mick on to their obixious dog whom they can't seem to teach manners to for Mick to teach manners? That'd be like having a 15 year old boy teach a young lady table manners...aint gonna happen. Sorry, just had to vent a bit. K~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 NO...my husbands 53 and I'm still waiting. It's a lifetime sentence! As someone who has two grown-up daughters and a wife who will never grow up, I think it works the other way, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 As someone who has two grown-up daughters and a wife who will never grow up, I think it works the other way, too. Yes you're probably right but I'm from the "other" camp so I can't really see it your way! I have 2 grown daughters and one half grown son. I'm sorta enjoying the boy more. I think it's cause I"m older and more chilled out. Till the other night I had to call his girlfriends Mom to ask if she could go out to dinner with us. It was at that moment I realized I am the enemy's mother! OMG....that's a scary thought! Actually I've really enjoyed all my kids and we are all the best of friends now. Even my 16 year old son. He's awesome and with 3 mom's training him (2 grown sisters) he's turning into the killer ladies man! K~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 As someone who has two grown-up daughters and a wife who will never grow up, I think it works the other way, too. I've been waiting for this reply. What took you so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 To answer OOky's reponse (I still have a hard time inserting quotes), yes, this all probably didn't necessarily belong in this post. But when I read that the dogs interracted, well, that brought the situation to mind that there is so much pressure to socialize dogs anymore (and then I just went on and on, sorry about that...I tend to do that!) Maybe not hardcore pressure, but it's like sometimes you're made to feel like you're wrong because you don't want your dogs to play with strange dogs. I allow my dog to nose/greet other dogs; it's not a big deal. I'm just not into letting them play when they don't know each other. I've seen too many dogs in play groups injured from dog fights. And I've seen many a happy encounter turn bad in a moment's notice. My last paragraph maybe should have been my only reponse to this post. I just feel mbc shoudn't beat herself up over the incident; she has acknowledged that she has done a lot work to help her dog overcome this type of personality - as dog owners, that's all we can do. Dogs are dogs...and some dogs don't like others. But then, perhaps I oversimplify everything. So I apologize to everyone for going soooo off track on 3 different subjects: Socializing, humanizing dogs, and the given incident. However, I always find reading everyone's opinions on those things fascinating. It's one of the best ways to educate yourself. So thanks for letting me go off the subject...and sorry about that. Oh, I would never be one who could seriously chastise others for going off point! I am the tangent queen, truth be told Just pointing out I didn't see anything too wrong with the woman's behavior. Don't censor!! I like discussions like these And as for Kristen's post about not trusting any old guy, I would agree in certain situations, but this is a good situation I've found. I think animals communicate with each other much more effectively, and Gaia (his 10-yr old dog) really gets the point to Odin in a very teaching way. I trust HER! I should point out that the one living being Odin NEVER rushes is kitties, even though he likes cats. This is because both Benway and Lobo have taught him very well and very consistently that getting in kitty faces is NOT tolerated. So I want a dog to help me on this one. Since I am a one-dog owner, I have to seek out other dogs that are ok for him to interact with so I CAN have training opportunities, or at least that's how I see it. Living in an urban area, he's going to run into other dogs and needs to learn how to act appropriately so I don't have to leave him home all the time. He has already made strides and is very good in certain situations, like in class and at the office, even riding calmly to work with my carpool partner's fear aggressive poodle in the car. The interesting thing about Patrick, Gaia's owner, is that he's been one of the strangers I've been very happy and glad to meet after getting Odin (I'm not a big socialite with strangers, as a rule). He went to the same small college as me, which was famous for having some beat poets go there. He was actually there when Alan Ginsberg et al were hanging around with the students! So we have lots to talk about while our dogs interact. I am happy to have met both of them, and am so glad for all Gaia's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 And thanks, BoPeep, for appreciating my dog long distance. Hey, count me in the long-distance Buddy appreciation club, too. More pictures please, I Buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 He went to the same small college as me, which was famous for having some beat poets go there. He was actually there when Alan Ginsberg et al were hanging around with the students! Okay, I gotta know--what school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Reed College. It's tiny, but Gary Snyder went there. My husband went to Naropa for his masters, so we can have all sorts of conversations re: crazy beats and buddism! (Patrick's a buddist, not me, but I find it interesting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I thought it might be Reed and Naropa is just down the street from me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Reed College. It's tiny, but Gary Snyder went there. My husband went to Naropa for his masters, so we can have all sorts of conversations re: crazy beats and buddism! (Patrick's a buddist, not me, but I find it interesting.) More tangent - when were you there? A bunch of my friends here at Cal went to Reed for undergrad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 More tangent - when were you there? A bunch of my friends here at Cal went to Reed for undergrad. '94-'98. I don't know many that went to Cal specifically, but the bay area is swarming with reedies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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