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For those of you who do rescuing and/or fostering of dogs from your local humane society or animal shelters ... When you go and pick up a dog, I know they give you the basic information about the dog, i.e. breed (if known), weight, vaccinations, spay/neuter, good with kids/cats/other dogs, and how it ended up at the shelter. What about information about WHO dropped the dog off? Is that ever included as a matter of procedure? Or is that considered confidential information?

 

Jodi

 

ETA: By the way, this has nothing to do with Pat W.'s thread about a foster being returned.

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I've never been told that how the dog got to the shelter is confidential. The shelters are usually happy to give me any and all information that I ask for, but I do have to remember to ask. They don't give names, of course, but they would say something like, "A family found him as a stray and then tied him to their barn for a month. He barked too much so they turned him in to us." Or, "we picked him up as a stray". Or, "the owners were getting divorced and neither wanted to keep her."

 

But I do have to remember to ask all of the questions. They don't always give a lot of details just as a matter of course. It depends a lot on the shelter and who one is dealing with, of course.

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I've only done 2 direct pulls, but one I got very minimal information - picked up as a stray. They had her age off by about 10 years, among other things.

 

The other was an owner surrender who came with a ton of information and paperwork, and the owner actually contacted me to give even more background and offer anything he could do to help place his baby. It was a sad story, but it helped us find him a perfect home. This is pretty rare, though.

 

Mostly, I wait to get an email or a phone call from my rescue group or IrishSmiley, who seems to get me into these things. :rolleyes: I try to avoid the shelters when I can - they are heartbreaking places.

 

Danielle

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I usually get very little info. I've never asked if they would tell me who brought the dog in, though. Usually, if I do ask about how the dog ended up in the shelter, they look at the paperwork and tell me that he/she was dropped off as a stray and that's all the info that I get. I usually don't even get any info on how the dog does with other dogs/cats/kids. The info is not always accurate, either. Sasha's Mom's Zoe was said to be aggressive towards men. It was written all over her paperwork and she wasn't even made available for adoption because of it. What was the first thing that Zoe did when she met my boyfriend? Jump up on him with her ears down and tail wagging and tried to give him kisses.

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I get pretty much everything the shelter has, and that usually includes all contact information of the former owner. When I pass on copies of vet paperwork to the adopters, I of course edit that stuff out. It is not my place to give that info to adopters; the shelter gives it me because they trust me to keep it confidential.

 

However, the shelter can only give me what they have. Lots of owners who turn in dogs lie about the dog, or lie about it being theirs, and lots of times the dog was picked up as an unclaimed stray so there is no history. But if there is information available, I generally get it.

 

For example, I have the contact information for Mr. Woo's former owners, the ones who kept him exclusively in the backyard and gave him to the shelter because he wouldn't stop digging out under the fence. I frequently want to call them to tell them he has been on television twice, and has a fanclub on the internetz, and ask them how they could have dumped such a gem! Also, to ask them what the heck he is :rolleyes:

 

I never have, but it's tempting!

 

RDM

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Ditto what Mary said. I got little/no background information on Tip, Mick, Lassie or Rye when I pulled them. Mick was listed as "picked up stray in uptown area" and in huge letters on the file attached to his kennel door: HAS SEIZURES. After much questioning I found out that it was not a trained professional who saw what they classified as seizures, but one of the kennel help who thought he saw something one time. Granted, Mick was terrified at the pound, so something told me he probably wasn't seizing but was just really scared or reacting to over-vaccination. I doubt he would have been adopted with that kind of PR. Fortunately, no evidence of seizures in the 16 mos. we've had him...

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The couple was getting divorced and neither one wanted to keep her???? Then why did they get a dog in the first place? It's almost as bad as that one animals cops episode I watched where a shelter worker revealed the animal was dumped because it didn't match the new furniture.

 

Whisper is a rescue, and I can only wish for whatever people had her before me: I hope they get everything that they deserve out of life. In that vein, I don't know what I did to deserve such devotion from her, but I know that I must've pleased whatever gods there are at some point.

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Ok, so let's say you pull a dog, and you are given the information about who surrendered the dog, and you happen to know the person ... what do you do?

 

That's a tough one. If this is for a rescue organization, I would let them know the situation and then take their advice.

 

If it's something that you're doing on your own, then I guess you have to make that call. I would lean toward keeping quiet, unless it would be impossible to do so for some reason. If the person surrendered the dog of his or her own free will, I would consider the matter closed on their end.

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Ok, so let's say you pull a dog, and you are given the information about who surrendered the dog, and you happen to know the person ... what do you do?

 

I don't think you do anything. You might not approve, but as a rescue, I'd think you just help the dog and move on. Of course, making sure you never place a dog with that person...

 

Whisper is a rescue, and I can only wish for whatever people had her before me: I hope they get everything that they deserve out of life. In that vein, I don't know what I did to deserve such devotion from her, but I know that I must've pleased whatever gods there are at some point.

 

My Lilly was an owner surrender. Paperwork said they couldn't afford to take care of her (and as skinny as she was, I believe that!). I'm thankful every day that they gave her up to a no kill shelter so that she could have a better life than they could provide. Maybe I'm being too generous, but that's how I feel.

 

Alex was listed as "stray" on his shelter paperwork. Ack! I tear up thinking if his tiny 3 month old self was wandering the streets of Atlanta alone. :rolleyes:

 

Jack, I have no idea how he ended up in the pound. I know he was about to be PTS when the rescue group pulled him. I figure he was a stray, but who knows. All I know is somebody's loss was my huge gain.

 

But, back to the original question, I don't think our shelters give out much more info to rescue. They might say owner surrender or even breeder turn in, but they don't name names.

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Ok, so let's say you pull a dog, and you are given the information about who surrendered the dog, and you happen to know the person ... what do you do?

 

Nothing. I do, however, make a note of it. I make a note of all owners who surrender dogs to shelters or to me, as it happens. That way, when they apply for a dog down the road, and I ask them if they have ever surrendered a dog to a shelter or rescue, I can gauge their propensity for truth-telling by their response. I had a foster Aussie that got dumped at our local pound, and the people who dumped her applied for a border collie puppy a year later. I am glad I had the information to deny them.

 

If the dumper was someone I knew WELL, I would ask them why they heck they dumped their dog. If it was someone I knew OF I would probably say nothing, unless there was a good reason for mentioning it.

 

Otherwise, I have no reason to share that information with anyone. Except maybe a DNA list. And the breeder of the dog/rescue it was originally adopted from.

 

RDM

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If the dumper was someone I knew WELL, I would ask them why they heck they dumped their dog. If it was someone I knew OF I would probably say nothing, unless there was a good reason for mentioning it.

 

Even though the information about the person who surrendered the dog was only given to you by the shelter under an assumption of confidentiality?

 

Let's go one step further and say ... you don't know the person "well" ... but you have met them several times ... you know the person owns, trains and breeds "XYZ" dogs, and the dog that came into the shelter was an "XYZ."

 

As a rescuer ... do you say something to the person?

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Even though the information about the person who surrendered the dog was only given to you by the shelter under an assumption of confidentiality?

 

Let's go one step further and say ... you don't know the person "well" ... but you have met them several times ... you know the person owns, trains and breeds "XYZ" dogs, and the dog that came into the shelter was an "XYZ."

 

As a rescuer ... do you say something to the person?

 

I would not. If there was an understanding that the information would remain confidential, I would only consider telling the person if there were a very serious reason to do so. Say, I knew for a fact that he or she had been forced to give the dog up against his or her will, or had been deceived into doing so. Even then I would not do so without a great deal of consideration.

 

If the shelter has entrusted me with information with an understanding of confidentiality, I would not breech that trust for any but a most serious reason.

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Even though the information about the person who surrendered the dog was only given to you by the shelter under an assumption of confidentiality?

 

Let's go one step further and say ... you don't know the person "well" ... but you have met them several times ... you know the person owns, trains and breeds "XYZ" dogs, and the dog that came into the shelter was an "XYZ."

 

As a rescuer ... do you say something to the person?

 

I wouldn't.

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This is getting a little cryptic for me. I do not understand if the breeder is also the dumper. If that were the case, and I felt compelled to talk to them about it, I would ask them if they had a named "X" and if they did not deny that, I would simply tell them the dog came through the shelter system. But I'm not sure what you have to gain by doing this, unless the breeder is NOT the dumper and you are offering them an opportunity to get the dog back. I guess I'm not sure I understand the situation.

 

To be honest, if it was someone I knew well their dog wouldn't have ended up in the shelter so that's kind of a moot point. Anyone I knew WELL would surrender the dog to me, I'm pretty sure. I tend not to keep dog dumping friends as a general rule. Someone I knew peripherally might be different though, and then I think I would have no case to say anything to them.

 

RDM

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Yes, sorry, it is a bit cryptic. And very hypothetical.

 

It's interesting to me that the kneejerk reaction ... because a rescuer "knows" someone in the area ... is that confidentiality gets set aside and the rescuer then feels they have the "right" to confront this person who "dumped" a dog -- all because the rescuer is acting on information they shouldn't even have in the first place. It makes me wonder what the shelter would think if they knew their rescuer went back and confronted the person who brought the dog in to the shelter.

 

Here's more.

 

Let's say you know ("know" meaning you've met them a couple of times) a breeder that has purple "xyz" dogs. Every time a puple "xyz" dog shows up at the shelter, and you rescue it, do you go to this breeder and say, "Hey, a purple xyz dog came in to the shelter ... here's a photo ... is this one of yours?"

 

Jodi

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What about information about WHO dropped the dog off? Is that ever included as a matter of procedure? Or is that considered confidential information?
We get this informations sometimes - Maybe the simple majority of the time. I like having this information available - it informs a number of early decisions about how to treat and deal with an individual dog, and where we might place it.

 

For instance, we had a lovely long-legged smoothie who took a hard run at me, and actually holed my trousers a couple times. Well, had we not known that she was an owner turn-in coming out of a nasty divorce, with probable maltreatment by the husband, we'd have reacted a lot differently to her attack. Instead, we took it as confirmation, and used it to help inform her rehabilitation, socialization, fostering, and eventual placement.

 

I'm quite pleased to state that we were able to turn her around and place her successfully, after we'd achieved a breakthrough with her. Now, she's my friend when she sees me... At least so long as I have a ball in my hand! :rolleyes: Otherwise, I'm simply part of the scenery as far as she cares. And as far as I'm concerned, that's more than fine with me - I don't need her to like me; I need her to be safe and well-behaved around men.

 

 

So - YES, I want this information whenever I can get it.

 

Oh, and if I know or meet a person who's dumped a dog, I'm still as polite as the situation calls for - I do remember the dog and the reasons, but I do try to keep an open mind until I get all the details. And even after, and even if I disagree, I strive to be polite. I'm not in the business of rescuing people. I'm in the business of rescuing dogs.

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all because the rescuer is acting on information they shouldn't even have in the first place.

 

 

I think that statement is largely judgmental. I think rescue has just as much right to that information as the shelter does. If a shelter transfers a dog inter-branch, as our SPCAs often do, the intake paperwork goes with it. When the shelter transfers the dog to us, the intake paper also comes with it. There is no reason we should NOT have that information, if we are a legitimate rescue, and if the shelter gives it to us. So I'm going to disagree with you there. I think the moral question is not *should* we have the information, but what should we do with it? And I think I've already stated that in most instances the answer is "Not much."

 

Let's say you know ("know" meaning you've met them a couple of times) a breeder that has purple "xyz" dogs. Every time a puple "xyz" dog shows up at the shelter, and you rescue it, do you go to this breeder and say, "Hey, a purple xyz dog came in to the shelter ... here's a photo ... is this one of yours?"

 

Again, you fail to differentiate whether the person who puts the dog in the shelter is the breeder or the buyer of a breeder's dogs. If I was quite certain that the purple dog in question was the offspring of an "XYZ" dog put in the shelter by a BUYER, and not the breeder themselves, then I don't see the harm in asking the breeder if it's one of their dogs. I don't even see the harm if there is paperwork confirming that the dog came from "XYZ Kennels" available to read, and telling the breeder at "XYZ Kennels" that you have one of their dogs.

 

The reason for this is to give the breeder a chance to do the right thing and take responsibility for that dog. If I were a breeder and my puppies were getting dumped in shelters, I would appreciate someone telling me and giving me the opportunity to get them back for rehoming purposes. I have almost always contacted the breeder to let them know I have one of their dogs, whether I got it as a direct turn in, or from a shelter - if I know who the breeder is. By definition I suppose you then inform the breeder who the dumper was, assuming the breeder keeps track of those things, but I think that is the lesser of two evils. The GOOD breeders who have been concerned about their dogs and care where they end up have been more concerned about working things out for the dog than about the buyers who dumped them.

 

I'm not totally sure what you're driving at. You're seem to be suggesting that rescuers feel some sense of entitlement to break confidentiality rules regarding shelter intake information, when in fact no one in this thread has suggested that they feel that way, or do that thing. So either I am misunderstanding you, or you are pushing an agenda that remains unclear. So I'm still not sure how to satisfactorily answer your 'hypothetical' questions?

 

RDM

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I'm sorry. I'm not meaning for it to be judgmental.

 

Earlier, you said:

 

the shelter gives it me because they trust me to keep it confidential.

 

And then you just said:

 

I think the moral question is not *should* we have the information, but what should we do with it? And I think I've already stated that in most instances the answer is "Not much."

 

If you're being trusted to keep it confidential, why isn't the answer ... in all instances ... "Nothing. Ever. No matter whether or not we know the person in question." ? Am I missing something? Why should the fact that the rescuer knows the person who "dumped" the dog play into how confidential the information is? Why does the standard change?

 

You're seem to be suggesting that rescuers feel some sense of entitlement to break confidentiality rules regarding shelter intake information, when in fact no one in this thread has suggested that they feel that way, or do that thing.

 

I'm sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier response.

 

If the dumper was someone I knew WELL, I would ask them why they heck they dumped their dog. If it was someone I knew OF I would probably say nothing, unless there was a good reason for mentioning it.

 

I read this to mean that if you knew them well, confidentiality would be broken. And if you knew OF them, confidentiality might be broken if there was a "good reason for mentioning it." Did I miss something there?

 

As far as the next scenario, I apologize for not being clearer. It was just another hypothetical, completely unrelated to the other topic. It's a standalone. A dog that appears to be a purple "xyz" dog shows up at the shelter. You don't know the dog's history. You don't know who dropped it off. All you know is that it appears to be a purple "xyz" dog, and you know someone who breeds purple "xyz" dogs. Do you go to the breeder that you know ... every time a dog comes in that looks like a purple "xyz" dog ... and ask them if it's one of theirs?

 

I have no agenda. Just asking.

 

Jodi

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IIf you're being trusted to keep it confidential, why isn't the answer ... in all instances ... "Nothing. Ever. No matter whether or not we know the person in question." ? Am I missing something? Why should the fact that the rescuer knows the person who "dumped" the dog play into how confidential the information is? Why does the standard change?

 

I guess because if my FRIEND chose to dump a dog in a shelter, there is more morality in question than a black and white case of confidentiality. There are interpersonal issues to consider, and I don't live my life on paper or by contract. So if, for example, Jody dumped her dog Abby in a shelter and I ended up with the dog then yeah, I would confront her, confidentiality be damned! I would want to know why my friend did something so horrible. My life is multi-layered and fluid, and I don't have a standard answer to every situation. Isn't this true for you as well?

 

In other circumstances, I don't have any reason to share that information except with a DNA list. And I don't consider that breaking confidentiality at all - given that our local shelters participate in the list and utilize it as well.

 

I read this to mean that if you knew them well, confidentiality would be broken. And if you knew OF them, confidentiality might be broken if there was a "good reason for mentioning it." Did I miss something there?

 

I do actually - I think you missed me "giving you the benefit of the doubt." I assumed you were going in a direction with this line of questioning. Maybe there are extenuating circumstances that I'm not considering, so I'm leaving room for those to be considered.

 

I have never surrendered an animal to a shelter so I don't know that people who do sign anything that assures them confidentiality. And I've also never had a shelter explicitly tell me that the intake information is confidential - I just assume that it is. Though I did have one worker tell me it's not confidential unless the dog was seized in an abuse case, but I don't think I would consider that tidbit gospel until I'd looked it up myself. So I'm saying I don't think there is ONE answer. I myself have never had reason to tell someone else that so-and-so dumped a dog in a shelter, but maybe there would be a legitimate reason for doing so, I'm not entirely sure. But in most cases that I can think of, or have experienced myself, I have no reason to repeat that information to anyone and I think that in most circumstances, I'd keep it confidential. Hopefully that offers some clarity.

 

A dog that appears to be a purple "xyz" dog shows up at the shelter. You don't know the dog's history. You don't know who dropped it off. All you know is that it appears to be a purple "xyz" dog, and you know someone who breeds purple "xyz" dogs. Do you go to the breeder that you know ... every time a dog comes in that looks like a purple "xyz" dog ... and ask them if it's one of theirs?

 

I might, if I thought they were the sort of breeder who would like to have that dog back. There is a breeder locally that breeds specifically for certain colours, and her dogs all share a similar appearance. I usually can identify them when they come into rescue. I don't offer them back to her because I don't think she does a really good job selling them in the first place and I'm suspicious of her ability to rehome them again (and she has refused them before as well - usually if they are neutered, she doesn't want them back).

 

If it were the sort of breeder that I thought should or would take her dog back, then I might contact her and say that a purple dog was in the shelter, and I know she breeders purple dogs, and was just checking in case it was one of hers in case she wanted to back. And then I'd leave it be. But where is the harm in asking? Worst case scenario the breeder says "nope, not one of my purple dogs" and the dog is in the exact same position. Best case the breeder says "Holy shit, that's W puppy from U+V litter, thanks for much for contacting me" and pulls the dog.

 

I see no harm there.

 

RDM

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I do know several breeders who would be FURIOUS to think that I knew (or suspected) that one of their breeding was in a shelter and I had not bothered to tell them. These people would take back any surrendered dog of their breeding under any circumstance, no questions asked, and would 50X rather I ask them about a dog who was NOT of their breeding than risk that a dog that WAS of their breeding got left in a shelter situation. All of these are people who are careful about where they place a dog in the first place, but sometimes things happen and a dog will somehow end up in need of a home - either through return from the person who bought the dog in the first place, or via a series of re-homings over which the breeder had no control (as in, original owner dies, children don't want the dog, dog gets re-homed inappropriately, etc). In a case like that - where you either KNOW the breeder would immediately take the dog back, or when you DON'T know, but want to offer them the opportunity and/or beneft of the doubt - I would think that one might at least consider making a well-considered and judicious exception to confidentiality, without getting into the irrelevant details. (In at least one case, I would have to consider that if I did NOT inform the breeder, she might in fact actually murder me. ) :rolleyes:

 

In some contractual and ethical situations, too, one must consider that "confidentiality" does not necessarily mean "tell no one and take this secret to the grave"; it means "Tell no one except those who, for the benefit of the client or patient, NEED to know this information, but do not use the information for personal gain or titillation." As an example, medical confidentiality about a patient does not mean "never never speak of this to anyone on pain of death." Quite often the information must in fact be shared - with other medical staff, with referring doctors, with specialists, with the patient, with other professionals for whom the information is relevant for the patient's safety. In such a case, confidentiality means that you don't share the information with people for whom the information is not relevant to the patient's best interests. You don't go to a cocktail party and go, "Hey, I just saw Sarah Smith's husband the other day, and he had a two pound Idaho baker lodged in his ****. I wonder what THEY were up to that night?" [wink wink]. It MIGHT mean that if Mr. Smith was suddenly overcome at that same party with an attack of intense abdominal pain and you drove him to the hospital, you might inform the medical staff that there could be concerns about intestinal issues which might result in peritonitis, and care should be taken to perform certain tests or procedures to rule out a foreign body of an obstructive nature in the distal GI tract. There's no need to elaborate on the "juicy" details; the relevant information is that there's a medical history that may be germaine to the case, and that medical history should be imparted to other professionals in the field so as to protect Mr. Smith's well-being.

 

In a rescue case, IMO - and someone correct me if this is wrong - it seems to me one MIGHT call breeder Q and say "I wonder if this dog might be of your breeding, would you like to take a look and maybe pull the dog?" Probably the breeder will know who they sold this dog to, and not sell another one to those people. But sometimes extenuating circumstances apply... maybe the people's home was burglarized and the dog escaped during the robbery and ended up in rescue, or something of that nature. That information is, ISTM, relevant as to whether or not the dog is returned to the original owner, AND perhaps to whether or not that owner can be considered for other dogs in the future. There's a difference between sharing information for the purposes of best serving the client's well-being, and sharing information for the purposes of gossip. Providing the information from one rescue to another, or one shelter to another, of from shelter to rescue or breeder, etc, seems to me to fall within the same kind of sharing of information that one uses of necessity in medicine.

 

I'll give another example. We had an absolutely darling patient who we'll call Mocha. She had chronic recurrent blood in the urine and some continence issues which made me suspect a bladder stone, but the owner would never allow us to test for it (let alone treat it). One day we get a call from the local pound, telling us that Mocha had been surrendered by the owner and Animal Control knew (I'm not sure how) that Mocha was one of our patients; they just thought we should know she was there, in case we wanted to do anything about it. We DID want to do something about it. We asked them to hold her (actually, they were kind enough to drop her off to us) and we did Xrays, diagnosed such enormous stones that I still refer to it as Bladderhenge, took her to surgery, removed the stones, and found her a home with an enthusiast of the breed who happened to be a good friend of one of our staff. Now.... should the pound not have called us? Should we not have informed the new owner that the dog had had a several-year history of untreated bladder stones, which were resolved, but were a relevant part of the medical history and should be kept in mind for future reference, and that the dog had NOT been surrendered for behavioral issues or any unresolvable health issues? IMO, BOTH of those actions were the right thing to do, for the well-being (present and future) of that dog, and so that the new owner knew what health concerns were and were not at issue. We did NOT tell the new owner the name, address and phone number of the old owner, nor did we tell everyone "Hey, our client John Doe neglected a curable ailment in his dog for 4 years and then dumped her at the pound so he could get a puppy." Nor did we tell John Doe "Hey, the pound called us when you abandoned Mocha there. We rescued her, cured her bladder stones - which were so enormous that you could use them to chock the tires on a 747, and you should be ashamed of yourself for making that poor dog walk around with those for 4 years - and now she has a family who is worthy of her unfailing good temper and loving nature... Unlike YOU, you big jerk. How long til this new puppy annoys you enough that you dump HIM at the pound? Are you going to wait til HE'S eight years old, develops some curable condition that you're too lazy or cheap to deal with, and then you'll dump HIM there, too?"

 

IMO there's a reason why we have such terms as "justifiable homicide". There's a reason why killing in battle is not considered murder, and why killing in self-defense is a legitimate reason for acquittal. The world is not so black and white as to say across the board, in all situations, "killing another person is always wrong, no matter what." It may always be regrettable, but it may not always be wrong. If we recognize that there are shades of gray in that ethical situation, ISTM that we must also recognize that that is not necessarily the ONLY ethical situation in which shades of grey occur.

 

JMO, of course.

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Not sure where you're trying to go with this Jodi..is there a motive to the questions? Personally, I get intake information on dogs I pull from the pound and like others have said, take note if these people ever apply for a dog to have a good reason to say NO....unless they can convince me they had a good reason to leave their dog at a kill facility. Doubtful that there could be sometimes good people make bad choices under pressure. Even if I knew them, I would feel no need to confront them, and personally have no friends who would dump their dog. I'm quite sure of that.

 

If the breeder was listed as the dumper, I'd not confront him even if I knew him (as so often happens here) because it does no good.

 

I think the only reason I would break the confidentiality that comes with the intake sheet is if it directly benefits the dogs...and in most cases it just does not. If I knew who bred the dog and thought they'd like him back....that's one scenario, or if someone turned in a dog who had belonged to someone else and been lost...but in most cases, that's just not on the intake sheet. The intake sheet shows the dumper and I have no time for most, if not all, of them.

 

Maria

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AK dog doc, thank you for your response. The confidentiality I was talking about was the contact information of the person who left the dog at the shelter being given to the rescuer (be it a rescue organization or a foster parent through that very shelter), and what that rescuer then does with that information. I am surprised that shelters/humane societies, etc. do not have a strict policy about protecting the contact information of the person who drops the dog off, and instead hands it over with the paperwork to the rescuer / fosterer, who can then confront the person if they decide that this is their "friend" or some other such reason they feel they need an explanation. The person rescuing the dog wouldn't need the contact information of the person dropping off the dog if the shelter has it (unlike in your example where medical information is released for the safety of the patient). It doesn't affect the dog one way or the other. If I were ever to drop a dog off at the shelter (never have, and have no plans on it), I don't like the idea of my contact information being released to the person who is rescuing the dog, who may or may not be directly affiliated with the shelter, for them to decide whether or not they are going to contact me and interrogate me about a dog I dropped off (when they don't know -- or care -- if it was my dog ... if it was a stray ... whatever ...). And I am not so sure I would feel that I need to answer to any of them.

 

Not sure where you're trying to go with this Jodi..is there a motive to the questions?

 

Already asked and answered.

 

I have no agenda. Just asking.

 

Thanks for your input, Maria.

 

Jodi

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